For those of you who think you dont pay enough in taxes....

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brblx

Diamond Member
Mar 23, 2009
5,499
2
0
Given our current situation, simply raising taxes is light years from being "fiscally responsible". Cut the bullshit, both parties have as close to zero fiscal accountability as you can get and neither parties constituents really want fiscal accountability because of what it truly entails. Don't get me wrong, you guys LOVE pretending to be fiscally responsible when its a program the other guys want and you don't (goes for taxing and spending) but when it comes to the stuff you guys like (both D's and R's) fiscal accountability goes right out the window.

Want true fiscal responsibility? Demand spending is severely cut across the board (.mil, entitlements, war spending... all of it), taxes have to go up on everyone, and demand that not only do we stop borrowing money but we start paying down what we owe. Or we could just tell our debtors to get fucked, which wouldn't bother me that much as it would force us to do the above.

While your at it you can demand that policies be put in place that bring jobs back to America. I don't have many ideas on this one (maybe tariffs?) but someone smarter than me must have already came up with a plan. We need to "make stuff" again in this country and we need to encourage Americans to buy the stuff we make as well. Call it protectionism if you will but thats exactly what it is, protecting Americans workforce and not China's/India's/Vietnam's etc... I know about all the "global economy" crap but American workers can not and should not compete with someone making $1 a day and their are only so many other jobs (that don't make stuff) to go around.

It is insanely ironic that we borrow money from the Chinese to stimulate the economy... so people will start spending more... on Chinese junk... while well over 10% of Americans can not find work.

i do not disagree with you, sir. in fact, the only place where we probably are of radically different opinion is healthcare, which desperately needs goverment intervention. otherwise, there's a effing lot of fat to cut.

as far as jobs, i don't really think that's the government's fault. if anything, moving jobs to india/china/mexico/wherever is a result of the 'free market.'
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
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The feds have had a similar program since the '80s. In Arizona, the far right wing of the Republican party has a hammer lock on the legislature. They've been incapable of passing a state budget as they still cling to the fantasy that endless tax cuts will pull them out of a multi-billion dollar deficit while being unwilling to cut spending to match. What the Dems say about state tax and spending in Arizona is irrelevant as they're completely locked out of the process by the Republicans. The sales tax proposal is a scam perpetuated by the Republican governor to pretend that the budget will be balanced by a future fantasy tax that has zero chance of becoming law.

Wow. Do you live in AZ and are you involved in politics here? If so, I think you've been sleeping. The GOP has had a majority since 1993, not the 80's. Dems locked out? Really? We have a D Attorney General at the moment. In January it was the R's who proposed 500 billion in budget cuts, and it was the minority leader Garcia that championed the effort to squash it saying we dont need those cuts.

In other words, your post is full of shit.
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,381
96
86
Republicans wont voluntarily pay more taxes because they're in general small govt conservatives. Democrats wont pay more taxes because they want other people to pay more taxes.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
Republicans wont voluntarily pay more taxes because they're in general small govt conservatives. Democrats wont pay more taxes because they want other people to pay more taxes.
It took 28 posts to to reach the truth.
 

brblx

Diamond Member
Mar 23, 2009
5,499
2
0
right, because as we've already thoroughly established, democrat = poor and republican = rich. :rolleyes:
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
76
Republicans wont voluntarily pay more taxes because they're in general small govt conservatives. Democrats wont pay more taxes because they want other people to pay more taxes.

Where were these alleged 'small govt conservatives' 2000-2008?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,205
27,194
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Wow. Do you live in AZ and are you involved in politics here? If so, I think you've been sleeping. The GOP has had a majority since 1993, not the 80's. Dems locked out? Really? We have a D Attorney General at the moment. In January it was the R's who proposed 500 billion in budget cuts, and it was the minority leader Garcia that championed the effort to squash it saying we dont need those cuts.

In other words, your post is full of shit.
Your reading comprehension and understanding of the legislative process is lacking to say the least. The '80s time frame was in reference to a federal program so the year in which the Reps came into the majority in the AZ legislature is irrelevant to the point.

Now, could you explain the role of the Attorney General in the legislative process?

Whether or not the Dems in the AZ legislature stand on their chairs and scream about spending or cuts is irrelevant. The Reps control both houses and the governorship. The budget mess in Arizona is 100% a Republican fuck up. Republican spending proposals, Republican tax proposals, Republican infighting, Republican disgrace.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
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Liberals are always willing to make other people pay more so the government can waste it, they won't poney up their own money.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
Liberals are always willing to make other people pay more so the government can waste it, they won't poney up their own money.

Conservatives are always willing to start wars while cutting taxes, passing the bill to the next Democrat in office.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,254
48,458
136
Republicans wont voluntarily pay more taxes because they're in general small govt conservatives. Democrats wont pay more taxes because they want other people to pay more taxes.

Yes of course. Republicans' stance is based upon their principles and Democrats' stance is based off of a nefarious desire to steal from others. What a mature viewpoint.

Taxes = collective action problem. This is the beginning and the end of why the Republican proposal is moronic and every single legislator who is voting for or against it knows it. The Republicans are simply trying to pull a stupid political stunt because...well... state legislatures are well known for pulling stupid political stunts.

This really isn't that hard guys.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,254
48,458
136
Your reading comprehension and understanding of the legislative process is lacking to say the least. The '80s time frame was in reference to a federal program so the year in which the Reps came into the majority in the AZ legislature is irrelevant to the point.

Now, could you explain the role of the Attorney General in the legislative process?

Whether or not the Dems in the AZ legislature stand on their chairs and scream about spending or cuts is irrelevant. The Reps control both houses and the governorship. The budget mess in Arizona is 100% a Republican fuck up. Republican spending proposals, Republican tax proposals, Republican infighting, Republican disgrace.

Does this mean that the Democrats don't have a lock on the federal government because the Defense Secretary is a Republican?
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
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If you have to ask you are a bigger troll then you realize.

And since I come from a state that runs a surplus I guess I'm already paying more thern the cheap asses from AZ.

So let me get this straight. You claim I am posting this in order to elicit some kind of emotional response? Really? Because that is the definition of a troll. And please explain how if I have to ask that also makes it trollish? The fact is, I posted a relevant news story, and gave commentary on it. Oh. Part of the other definition of a troll is one who posts off topic subject matter in a thread.

Fuck off troll. How about contributing? What do you think about the fact the GOP here in AZ is calling the Dems bluff, and the fact the Dems are now balking?
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,205
27,194
136
Does this mean that the Democrats don't have a lock on the federal government because the Defense Secretary is a Republican?
That is the implication of his post. However, there is a slight difference in that the AZ AG is elected and the Sec of Defense is appointed. However, each has about as much say in the legislative processes of their respective governments.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,205
27,194
136
Fuck off troll. How about contributing? What do you think about the fact the GOP here in AZ is calling the Dems bluff, and the fact the Dems are now balking?
The Dems don't even have a hand in the game; they are spectators in this legislature (nice job by the way, get paid to sit and watch the Reps screw up). How are the Reps calling the Dems bluff? The Reps are trying to score points with their radical dumbass base.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
Your reading comprehension and understanding of the legislative process is lacking to say the least. The '80s time frame was in reference to a federal program so the year in which the Reps came into the majority in the AZ legislature is irrelevant to the point.

Now, could you explain the role of the Attorney General in the legislative process?

Whether or not the Dems in the AZ legislature stand on their chairs and scream about spending or cuts is irrelevant. The Reps control both houses and the governorship. The budget mess in Arizona is 100% a Republican fuck up. Republican spending proposals, Republican tax proposals, Republican infighting, Republican disgrace.

Oh but it IS relevant. The Dems had control in the 80's nitwit.

Now, using your thought process, I wouldnt imagine you would apply your logic federally, right? You believe all the bickering and lack of cohesiveness with the Dems is NOT because of the GOP, right? Because most on this board think so. Im glad you havent stupidly fallen into that trap.

And both parties are responsible for this mess. If it makes you feel better saying its the GOP's fault, /clap for you. Doesnt really matter. What matters is the legislation at hand, and even if the GOP is responsible, they are wanting to get out of the mess. Of do you believe one strike youre out? Hell, the GOP balanced our federal budget in the 90's, Im sure they get the state budget figured out.

And thank you also for commenting on the actual topic of the thread and not throwing up misleading other topics. (I hope I didnt break your sarcasm meter with that :) )
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
The Dems don't even have a hand in the game; they are spectators in this legislature (nice job by the way, get paid to sit and watch the Reps screw up). How are the Reps calling the Dems bluff? The Reps are trying to score points with their radical dumbass base.

If you have to ask, then either 1. you didnt read the article, or 2. you have the comprehension of a 5th grader, or 3. both of the above.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
That is the implication of his post. However, there is a slight difference in that the AZ AG is elected and the Sec of Defense is appointed. However, each has about as much say in the legislative processes of their respective governments.

Nah wasnt the implication. Just making a point the Dems do have some foothold in AZ. Its not the GOP wash you imply it to be.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,205
27,194
136
Oh but it IS relevant. The Dems had control in the 80's nitwit.

Now, using your thought process, I wouldnt imagine you would apply your logic federally, right? You believe all the bickering and lack of cohesiveness with the Dems is NOT because of the GOP, right? Because most on this board think so. Im glad you havent stupidly fallen into that trap.

And both parties are responsible for this mess. If it makes you feel better saying its the GOP's fault, /clap for you. Doesnt really matter. What matters is the legislation at hand, and even if the GOP is responsible, they are wanting to get out of the mess. Of do you believe one strike youre out? Hell, the GOP balanced our federal budget in the 90's, Im sure they get the state budget figured out.

And thank you also for commenting on the actual topic of the thread and not throwing up misleading other topics. (I hope I didnt break your sarcasm meter with that :) )

First, if you wipe the spit off you monitor you might be able to read the words there. Second, I absolutely blame the Dems in Washington for: 1) failing to pass appropriations in a timely manner; 2) failing to pass a reasonable health care reform bill (the current one is a total sellout to the private insurance industry); 3) failing to cut funding for Bush's wars and thereby ending the wars.

The blueprint to an almost balanced federal budget was laid out in 1994 by Clinton and the Dem Congress, before the Reps controlled anything. All the Reps did was bitch and then try to take credit when it worked.

As you said, the Reps have controlled the AZ legislature for a long time, since 1993. They have a proven track record of incompetence (recall the alt fuels fiasco crafted by the Reps with no Dem input). Time to retire the team. The Reps can't accept that their ideology doesn't work in the real world and so they continue to bloviate instead of attempting to govern responsibly.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
The biggest problem is tax burden has shifted to middle while being lightened at the top. It's responsible to for our deficit and the growing inequality. The richest Americans primary form of income isn't even taxed like regular income but exempt from SS, Medicare, and regular income tax but rather taxed at a reduced rate called capital gains. This is why CEO's pay themselves a token salary and cash out options each year at multiples of their salary.

The middle has a whole host of new taxes to deal with to make up some of the shortfall. Including AMT sucking in an ever greater portion of middle. Sin taxes, Increasing property and sales taxes. Use taxes and excise taxes.

It has become unfair. And believing most Americans have a certain sense of fairness and fair play about them - I can only think they are ignorant to tax laws which is why this scheme has gone unaddressed by both parties for 30 years now.

This measure is political grandstanding to keep our eye off the ball.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
So let me get this straight. You claim I am posting this in order to elicit some kind of emotional response? Really? Because that is the definition of a troll. And please explain how if I have to ask that also makes it trollish? The fact is, I posted a relevant news story, and gave commentary on it. Oh. Part of the other definition of a troll is one who posts off topic subject matter in a thread.

Fuck off troll. How about contributing? What do you think about the fact the GOP here in AZ is calling the Dems bluff, and the fact the Dems are now balking?

Make me, oh you can't can you becau7se your all blow and no go. So fuck off yourself troll breath.

If the ruling class of Arizona had been paying it's fair share in the first place you wouldn't be having these problems but in your little troll world you think it's the R's calling the D's bluff?? LMAO!! Keep drinking the kool aid butt head.