For those of you who think you dont pay enough in taxes....

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
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...here's your chance to make things right! Its a proposal here in AZ to pay additional voluntary taxes! Yes! Im not sure what to think of this legislation, as many people already contribute to private charity. But, my question is, who here would be willing to send extra tax money if you had the chance? (Yes, its a trick question) I think its interesting the comments from one Democrat calling the legislation "frivolous and ineffective". ORLY? Isnt it the left who say the wealthy dont pay enough? Or could it be they will be expected to lead by example, and know they really dont want to? Oh, black is making this political. Yes! I am! Its a political issue as of late. I also like how the Republicans are asking the Dems to put their money where their mouth is! From the article: "Burges (R) acknowledged that at least some of the purpose of the legislation is strictly political: She wants to address the insistence by some -- mostly Democrats -- that Arizonans are willing to pony up more money to protect vital services.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/147790

Voluntary tax proposal floated

PHOENIX — So how much are you willing to give, voluntarily, to help the state out of its financial hole?

You may get a chance: Legislation introduced for the upcoming session seeks to create an "I Didn't Pay Enough'' fund where Arizonans, on their income tax forms, would be able to make a donation to the state above and beyond what they owe.

The chances of the measure getting a hearing -- and getting approved -- are very good: Rep. Judy Burges, R-Skull Valley, convinced 33 of her Republican colleagues to sign on as sponsors. That leaves her three more votes than necessary for passage.

And 12 of 30 senators also have signed on in support.

House Minority Leader David Lujan, D-Phoenix, dismissed the proposal as both frivolous and ineffective.

Burges acknowledged that at least some of the purpose of the legislation is strictly political: She wants to address the insistence by some -- mostly Democrats -- that Arizonans are willing to pony up more money to protect vital services.

That being said, Burges said the measure has the potential to help bridge the gap between revenues and expenses, even if just a little bit: If every one of the 3.4 million households that files a state income tax return kicked in an extra $5, that would generate $12 million.

That's a far cry from the estimated $3 billion that will be needed to balance next year's budget. But Burges, in her second two-year term as a legislator, said she views this as far preferable to mandated higher taxes on everyone.

"We have people out there who are losing their homes, we have people on the verge of losing their homes,'' she said.

She doesn't like the proposal by Gov. Jan Brewer for a temporary one-cent hike in the state sales tax, to 6.6 cents on the dollar. Burges cited a report by the Goldwater Institute that such a levy would result in the loss of 14,400 jobs.

"When you're at 10 percent (unemployment), you really don't want to lose any more,'' she said.

"But there are people out there who have told me, 'I would be willing to give a little bit extra money,' '' Burgess continued. "This is their opportunity to do that.

That claim that Arizonans are willing to do more to prevent deeper cuts to education and other programs has been advanced not only by Brewer through her request to send the sales tax hike to the ballot but but also by legislative Democrats. They have crafted proposals to increase state revenues by revamping the sales tax system to start imposing the levy on services which are now exempt.

"Our friends across the aisle -- and I'm not going to belittle them because I happen to like them and they stand by their beliefs -- have stood up and said that they would be willing to come and meet us half-way if we would be willing to address revenues,'' Burges said.

With this legislation, she continued, "they have an opportunity to come to the middle and to step up and to help us try to resolve problems.''

Lujan said the plan, crafted as HB 2001, hardly amounts to any sort of meaningful compromise.

"Rather than making light of the situation with her bill, I think we need to look at what is the overall plan for next year, what's the revenue we need, and come up with a comprehensive budget, not just a bill like this that doesn't resolve the situation,'' he said.

Lujan said his objections go beyond the fact that the what Burgess is proposing would make only a tiny dent in the anticipated deficit for the coming fiscal year.

"I don't think it should be just who voluntarily wants to pay,'' he said. "It's all of our responsibility to support education and to support the infrastructure we need for our state for the future.''

Most Arizonans now get a refund when they file their income tax forms because the state generally withholds more from paychecks during the year than the actual liability. And the record has shown that taxpayers are willing to give up some of that, at least for causes they like.

Last fiscal year, Arizonans agreed to donate nearly $7.6 million to various causes through check-off boxes on their tax returns.

While some of that went to programs ranging from protecting endangered species and Special Olympics to domestic violence shelters and helping veterans, the lion's share -- nearly $6.3 million -- was earmarked for the Clean Elections fund.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,101
5,640
126
"both frivolous and ineffective."

Good summation. Sounds like the Politicians lacked the Balls to do the right thing. So they just tossed a weak volley to the Voter to excuse themselves of Responsibility to do their Job.

Perhaps they should have added a Line asking How much the Politicians should be Paid from everyone's Taxes.
 

brblx

Diamond Member
Mar 23, 2009
5,499
2
0
there's a difference between 'wanting to pay more taxes' and being an able-minded adult who knows what must be done to fix this country. i'm sorry we can't go back to the bush years of zero fiscal accountability...
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,949
133
106
that's what liberals need to do. instead of taking money from the tax payer they need to fund their broken social programs them selves. put your money where your mouth is.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
that's what liberals need to do. instead of taking money from the tax payer they need to fund their broken social programs them selves. put your money where your mouth is.

But then who will fund the expensive wars and corporate welfare? D:
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
How much I'm willing to pay depends entirely on how it's used, and how much I make.

If I make only enough to survive (which I generally do) then I can't pay much or I'd be forced to take government assistance in order to pay necessities. I think <15% is perfectly reasonable for people making less than 30k a year.

If I made more, and if I felt confident that the money would be used properly on social programs, infrastructure, paying down debt, etc then I'd be happy to pay more. Hell, if I made 60k a year I'd voluntarily pay 40-50% in taxes with such assurances...even more if it included other necessities I currently pay into privately (ie health care).

Taxation is absolutely necessary for national existence. While I don't agree with how it's collected, or where it's spent, I absolutely support paying it.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,032
26,910
136
The feds have had a similar program since the '80s. In Arizona, the far right wing of the Republican party has a hammer lock on the legislature. They've been incapable of passing a state budget as they still cling to the fantasy that endless tax cuts will pull them out of a multi-billion dollar deficit while being unwilling to cut spending to match. What the Dems say about state tax and spending in Arizona is irrelevant as they're completely locked out of the process by the Republicans. The sales tax proposal is a scam perpetuated by the Republican governor to pretend that the budget will be balanced by a future fantasy tax that has zero chance of becoming law.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
that's what liberals need to do. instead of taking money from the tax payer they need to fund their broken social programs them selves. put your money where your mouth is.

that's what conservatives need to do. instead of taking money from the tax payer they need to fund their broken wars, occupations, and corporate welfare them selves. put your money where your mouth is.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
blackangst1, you are the devil, you know that?

Look at the answers so far. You're making some people extremely uncomfortable.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
2
0
blackangst1, you are the devil, you know that?

Look at the answers so far. You're making some people extremely uncomfortable.

Ah, yes, the "they are scared because they are debating with you" argument... The logic less and most pathetic "argument" you could find!
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,029
48,004
136
Taxation is a collective action problem, people are willing to pay taxes based upon the assumption that they are one of many people paying towards this goal. Paying extra individual voluntary taxes is stupid because it defeats the entire premise upon which taxation is based. It is most certainly 'frivolous and ineffective' in the service of a partisan political stunt.

Come on everyone, this is pretty obvious. Blackangst, I expected better of you. Don't become one of the crazies.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,029
48,004
136
Oh, and people have always been able to donate additional money to the state/federal government if they so choose, making this all the more transparently dumb.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
^ Yeah, read about that somewhere recently. Apparently there are people who leave their life savings/fortunes to pay off the federal debt upon their death. That's pretty amazing.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
there's a difference between 'wanting to pay more taxes' and being an able-minded adult who knows what must be done to fix this country. i'm sorry we can't go back to the bush years of zero fiscal accountability...

Given our current situation, simply raising taxes is light years from being "fiscally responsible". Cut the bullshit, both parties have as close to zero fiscal accountability as you can get and neither parties constituents really want fiscal accountability because of what it truly entails. Don't get me wrong, you guys LOVE pretending to be fiscally responsible when its a program the other guys want and you don't (goes for taxing and spending) but when it comes to the stuff you guys like (both D's and R's) fiscal accountability goes right out the window.

Want true fiscal responsibility? Demand spending is severely cut across the board (.mil, entitlements, war spending... all of it), taxes have to go up on everyone, and demand that not only do we stop borrowing money but we start paying down what we owe. Or we could just tell our debtors to get fucked, which wouldn't bother me that much as it would force us to do the above.

While your at it you can demand that policies be put in place that bring jobs back to America. I don't have many ideas on this one (maybe tariffs?) but someone smarter than me must have already came up with a plan. We need to "make stuff" again in this country and we need to encourage Americans to buy the stuff we make as well. Call it protectionism if you will but thats exactly what it is, protecting Americans workforce and not China's/India's/Vietnam's etc... I know about all the "global economy" crap but American workers can not and should not compete with someone making $1 a day and their are only so many other jobs (that don't make stuff) to go around.

It is insanely ironic that we borrow money from the Chinese to stimulate the economy... so people will start spending more... on Chinese junk... while well over 10% of Americans can not find work.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
that's what conservatives need to do. instead of taking money from the tax payer they need to fund their broken wars, occupations, and corporate welfare them selves. put your money where your mouth is.

Does your side get suck with Medicare part D? Regardless of who passed it, its hard to argue its a "conservative" program. If so, the conservatives will probably come out waay ahead on the deal.

Oh, who gets stuck with all the IOU's we wrote to SSI and various other money we "borrowed" from ourselves?

How about those of us with a bit of friggen common sense that are against most of the above bullshit to one extent or another? I didn't want the wars nor the corporate welfare (You D's seem to be pretty good on the corporate welfare too) nor did I/do I want massive expansion of entitlements. So do I get out of paying for all of the above?
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,413
616
126
there's a difference between 'wanting to pay more taxes' and being an able-minded adult who knows what must be done to fix this country. i'm sorry we can't go back to the bush years of zero fiscal accountability...

lol zero fiscal accountability is worse now than when bush was in office.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,949
133
106
that's what conservatives need to do. instead of taking money from the tax payer they need to fund their broken wars, occupations, and corporate welfare them selves. put your money where your mouth is.


your obama can end all that any time he wants. why doesn't he??
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
How much I'm willing to pay depends entirely on how it's used, and how much I make.

If I make only enough to survive (which I generally do) then I can't pay much or I'd be forced to take government assistance in order to pay necessities. I think <15% is perfectly reasonable for people making less than 30k a year.

If I made more, and if I felt confident that the money would be used properly on social programs, infrastructure, paying down debt, etc then I'd be happy to pay more. Hell, if I made 60k a year I'd voluntarily pay 40-50% in taxes with such assurances...even more if it included other necessities I currently pay into privately (ie health care).

Taxation is absolutely necessary for national existence. While I don't agree with how it's collected, or where it's spent, I absolutely support paying it.

Dude. 60k a year is not alot of money. Unless you live in a small town somewhere and even then its doesnt reach the level to be rich. Really you would pay 50%? Really? Spoken by someone who doesnt make 60k.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
Not like PJ at all because PJ will at least try to defend his position instead of just making a troll thread and running away.

How is it a troll thread exactly? So far Prince is the only one who has ante'd up and said sure I would pay more. Would you?