For those of us interested in the moderate more energetic debate in the Democratic party, this:

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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,036
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Consistent with why I'm not keen on Biden. Or, for that matter, on the Lib Dems or most of Labour's alternatives to Corbyn. Business-as-usual got us here, I'm not sure why one would expect it to turn out any differently if we tried it again.

I suppose someone who is bold in a boring way would be best. Seems like both Corbyn and Sanders have some 'baggage' that gives them vulnerabilities (possibly Corbyn most of all), but there isn't a lot else on offer. It's possible Warren would be better (she just seems to lack that populist motivational capacity that seems to be necessary these days)

Here, I haven't a clue, Blair seems to have left behind a complete vaccuum in Labour, everyone apart from the old left seems to just be an empty space, still wondering where all those ministerial salaries and expense-accounts went.
 
hal2kilo

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,413
10,304
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ivwshane

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,217
14,900
136
Moonbeam said:
www.vox.com

Polls: Democratic voters prefer big structural changes over a return to normalcy in 2020

This could be a vulnerability in Joe Biden’s campaign message.
www.vox.com www.vox.com

I like the trend. You? I have been leaning Warren for some time.
Click to expand...

I thought Warren was a good mix of wheat people liked in Hillary and what they liked in Sanders.

The biggest problem with Warren is that she's so valuable in pretty much any position you put her in; senator, head of bureau of consumer protection, president, etc.

From 2015
ivwshane said:
Purely based on the most interesting race, I think a warren v walker would be an awesome race and a great choice for Americans to have. I think warren would destroy walker on the facts but walker would have the better appeal.

As much as I would like warren to run for president or be Clinton's Vice President she needs to be in the senate where she can be more effective in making policy.
Click to expand...
 
Fanatical Meat

Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
34,553
15,766
136
ivwshane said:
I thought Warren was a good mix of wheat people liked in Hillary and what they liked in Sanders.

The biggest problem with Warren is that she's so valuable in pretty much any position you put her in; senator, head of bureau of consumer protection, president, etc.

From 2015
Click to expand...

To me Warrens biggest weakness is she sounds like your mom yelling at you. Her voice is weak.
I know this shouldn’t matter but it does.

I’m prepared to get hate over this statement.
I’ve voted for her every election
 
V

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
6,461
7,636
136
Fanatical Meat said:
To me Warrens biggest weakness is she sounds like your mom yelling at you. Her voice is weak.
I know this shouldn’t matter but it does.

I’m prepared to get hate over this statement.
I’ve voted for her every election
Click to expand...

Right now Warren is my first choice. I have already heard rumblings from people that they think she reminds them of Hillary and are turned off. Then you have the voters that will NEVER vote for a woman to run anything.
 
ivwshane

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,217
14,900
136
Fanatical Meat said:
To me Warrens biggest weakness is she sounds like your mom yelling at you. Her voice is weak.
I know this shouldn’t matter but it does.

I’m prepared to get hate over this statement.
I’ve voted for her every election
Click to expand...

She sounds like a mother but she doesn't sound like she's yelling at you, unless, your mom in particular, was super nice when she yelled at you.

Bernie Sanders on the other hand...
 
Fanatical Meat

Fanatical Meat

Lifer
Feb 4, 2009
34,553
15,766
136
ivwshane said:
She sounds like a mother but she doesn't sound like she's yelling at you, unless, your mom in particular, was super nice when she yelled at you.

Bernie Sanders on the other hand...
Click to expand...

I’ll take that but seems like you understand what I mean.

Bernie sounds like the angry old guy who lives down the street.
 
Bitek

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,647
5,220
136
I'm for going bold, but that doesn't mean every policy needs to be maximalist and there is no room for incrementalism.

As far as HC is concerned, the incremental approach has a path to success. M4A doesn't, and will waste time to deliver nothing (like the gop repeal/replace effort.)

Other areas can be bold. Go big on Green tech and infrastructure. Go big on voting rights. Go big on tax reform. Pack the fing Scotus. Do it all and blow minds.

Overall, being bold will be measured on delivered value, not a single policy.
 
M

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,398
6,077
126
Bitek said:
I'm for going bold, but that doesn't mean every policy needs to be maximalist and there is no room for incrementalism.

As far as HC is concerned, the incremental approach has a path to success. M4A doesn't, and will waste time to deliver nothing (like the gop repeal/replace effort.)

Other areas can be bold. Go big on Green tech and infrastructure. Go big on voting rights. Go big on tax reform. Pack the fing Scotus. Do it all and blow minds.

Overall, being bold will be measured on delivered value, not a single policy.
Click to expand...
The Presidential candidates who wins will not determine the kind of health care reform that will pass. That will be done by the legislature so I just ignore what they say. Those are promises they can't deliver, and they will all sign whatever gets passed.
 
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ivwshane

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,217
14,900
136
Moonbeam said:
The Presidential candidates who wins will not determine the kind of health care reform that will pass. That will be done by the legislature so I just ignore what they say. Those are promises they can't deliver, and they will all sign whatever gets passed.
Click to expand...

Then what we should be looking for is a candidate that is capable of selling what's possible and who can support those in Congress who will be making policy changes. Someone who understands the issues and who has an eye for helping the average American.
 
M

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,398
6,077
126
ivwshane said:
Then what we should be looking for is a candidate that is capable of selling what's possible and who can support those in Congress who will be making policy changes. Someone who understands the issues and who has an eye for helping the average American.
Click to expand...
What I would like is a President who looks at problems with a genius level problem solving skill set. I like Yang for that. Since I believe I have a minority vision, I think Warren isn't bad either and can also sell. But Yang amazes me.
 
Indus

Indus

Diamond Member
May 11, 2002
9,892
6,468
136
Fanatical Meat said:
To me Warrens biggest weakness is she sounds like your mom yelling at you. Her voice is weak.
I know this shouldn’t matter but it does.

I’m prepared to get hate over this statement.
I’ve voted for her every election
Click to expand...

Your mom yelling at you is more sensible than Trump yelling at you. One is trying constructive criticism and the other is bullying.
 
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