For those against universal healthcare like they have in Canada, why be against it?

[soundforbjt]

Good doctors cannot work for free. Doctors now have to limit new medicare patients or give each medicare patients about 1/4th the time they normally would get. The reimbursement rates to these doctors from medicare is so low, seeing medicare patients costs them . They have offices, staff, insurance, debt, etc.

Universal health care in this country would not fix a thing. It would create a black hole in the federal budget and the end result would either be raising taxes are cutting services.

We are not Canada. All I know in Tennessee healthcare was provided by the state to people who could not afford it or who were uninsurable. People ended up going to the emergency room for OTC medicines because it was "free." People on Tenncare also averaged 4X the number of prescriptions of people who had private insurance. It would have bankrupted a state had the program not been scaled way back.

Yeah, Tenncare bounced out my friend who needed a kidney transplant, great help, they were.

 

[actuarial]

I have been to Canada many times for business at my last job. Many of these trips were to medical centers or research centers dealing with the healthcare industry. On every trip, the topic of universal healthcare came up. The consensus I got from the residents there was that the system is ok, as long as you don't get sick. If you need to be seen then plan on having to wait on a list for a long, long time sometimes months for a routine checkup. If you need a specialist or some special procedure, this could even take up to a year. Most of the people I talked to, who were professionals and could afford it, went to private providers for their healthcare. This means that they were paying for it twice. These are the reasons why I, and many, aren't fond of the idea of government run universal healthcare.

I have never had to wait more than a week to see my family doctor. Even if they are busy (like you can't get an appointment for a few days), you can always go down to the clinic and see someone within a few hours (and the wait is only that long if the line-up is extremely long). My family doctor works in the clinic so I get to see him most times.

Now to speak specifically to 'routine check-ups', that has to be the weirdest criticism I've ever heard. My wife/I's 'routine' (annual) check-ups are booked when we leave the prior one. That's what routine means, that you know of it well in advance. Essentially, your criticism makes no sense. My daughter's routine check-ups are booked in similar fashion, and have been within a day or two of the recommended date each time (one month, two month, four month, six month is next). If my routine check-ups are booked a year in advance, then what difference do wait times make?

Waiting a year to see a specialist for something is a myth bordering on a lie. You would think over 25 years of living here I would know of at least ONE person that this has happened to, but I don't. Now, I do know of a person who went in for a routine colonoscopy, and within a few weeks had his prostate removed. Doesn't seem to fit your narrative though.

As to the private insurance, I'm a professional, and work with professionals who make far more money than I do, and don't know a single person who uses private health care for covered services. As an extension of that - I don't even know of a place where you're allowed to pay for covered services in Ontario, outside of CT scans / MRIs (and even then it's only after hours). What provinces were you in when people said this, and were they travelling to the US for their private health care needs?

And even if this stuff WAS true, private health care doesn't solve those problems for anyone without insurance. What's a worse scenario - waiting a month to see an oncologist, or never getting to see one?

Here's a great final test - let's see if a single Canadian comes in and corroborates what you're saying. Is there anyone on this board who pays to see a family doctor? Who's waited a year to see a specialist? Who's waited months for a doctor's appointment? Who wants a full private system over what we have today?

 

[momeNt]

I figured you were pretty young, and I'm guessing fairly sheltered. No responsible person should ever wish for what you wrote.

I wish it to happen to me and my generation than my future children's generation. Our government isn't able to handle the power and diligence required in controlling a fiat money, and our businesses are not able to properly plan given how our government handles our money.

Sure it's possible that Bernanke, Obama, Congress, and Krugman can wake up one day and suddenly understand fiat currency, but it's highly unlikely. Which is why I support a money system and government structure that works because it is what would be arrived at by humans in a free market, not one that takes advantages of crises to make government intrude further in our lives and take control of everything down to our money.


Edit: You didn't answer how old you were though

 

[a777pilot]

I see a lot of people fretting and worrying about the idea of a universal healthcare system, such as what they have up in Canada.

I ask to you - why is this so bad?

Cost. Freedom of choice. Giving up control of our lives and health care. Besides that why should I be charged with paying for the poor choices of others?

 

[Ausm]

Cost. Freedom of choice. Giving up control of our lives and health care. Besides that why should I be charged with paying for the poor choices of others?

You mean Freedom from having to carry health insurance so you get shafted for those peoples poor choices?

 

[Tristicus]

Because it sucks. The system is absolutely horrible. Even Canada is trying to do away with it.

 

[Atreus21]

We can't afford to save tons of money!? Socialized health care is vastly more efficient in literally every situation it has ever been used.

More efficient than what?

I think this is the first case in which leftists have honestly tried to claim that a government-run industry is more efficient than a privatized one.

Your claim is in such contravention to history and common sense that I don't really know how to prove it.

 

[Ausm]

Because it sucks. The system is absolutely horrible. Even Canada is trying to do away with it.

Time to stop huffing paint. Every Canadian I know thinks our Healthcare for profit system in this country is fucking insane.

 

[soundforbjt]

More efficient than what?

I think this is the first case in which leftists have honestly tried to claim that a government-run industry is more efficient than a privatized one.

Your claim is in such contravention to history and common sense that I don't really know how to prove it.

Look at what other countries with UHC spend, vs what we spend percentage wise.

 

[woolfe9999]

You can give me study after study and I could give you the same showing the opposite. Problem with your post is that you did not read mine. I am not saying that is takes a while to see a doctor. That is what I was told but Canadians who have to live through universal healthcare. This comes from firsthand knowledge of the situation, not my opinion on the matter. So seems like what people live are the facts, not what some study shows.

P.S. Don't you know that something like 99% of statistics are made up?

99% of statistics are made up? That is seriously your reply when presented with a study that contradicts anecdotal statements you are describing? Guess what, I know two people in Canada, one a Canadian and another an American who has relocated to Ontario. Both rave about the healthcare system there, and both have had serious health problems. How much value do those anecdotes have in assessing the Canadian healthcare system? About as much as the ones you relate: virtually nil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

 

[momeNt]

Look at what other countries with UHC spend, vs what we spend percentage wise.

How is it possible to look at per capita estimates when health conditions endemic to certain countries are vastly different? What do we spend per point of BMI? Has anybody looked at that metric? Or any other metric that would help us actually analyze the situation better than just per capita.

 

[Tristicus]

Time to stop huffing paint. Every Canadian I know thinks our Healthcare for profit system in this country is fucking insane.

Canadians think something is bad, better stop it. Great logic right there. Where can I cast my vote for you next election?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Because it sucks. The system is absolutely horrible. Even Canada is trying to do away with it.

Complete bullshit which you can't possibly support beyond claimed annecdotes. I'm sitting in a room right now with 50 people and just asked them. Every last one disagrees. And they are all Canadians.

 

[SpongeBob]

I see a lot of people fretting and worrying about the idea of a universal healthcare system, such as what they have up in Canada.

I ask to you - why is this so bad?

The current US system suits me well. Extremely well actually. My premiums aren't too bad and I get quality service (have had everything from minor stuff to major surgery). I see no reason to drastically change the system. I am all for improving efficiency within the current system.

 

[tydas]

Here is a great article about Healthcare which IMO shows how GOP has no interest in fixing anything...

http://www.economist.com/node/21014575

 

[Fear No Evil]

Complete bullshit which you can't possibly support beyond claimed annecdotes. I'm sitting in a room right now with 50 people and just asked them. Every last one disagrees. And they are all Canadians.

Funny, I am sitting in a room with 100 people and just asked them. Every last one agrees that Canada's system sucks. And they are all Canadians! What are the chances?

 

[woolfe9999]

Funny, I am sitting in a room with 100 people and just asked them. Every last one agrees that Canada's system sucks. And they are all Canadians! What are the chances?

Are you criticizing his point or trying to make his point for him? Guess what, I'm sitting in a room with 200 people and...

Anyone want to up it to a number that might actually be statistically significant?

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Funny, I am sitting in a room with 100 people and just asked them. Every last one agrees that Canada's system sucks. And they are all Canadians! What are the chances?

Yet only one of us is totally full of shit. That'd be you. Typical for a right winger when it comes to health care. Thank god we have you Americans to tell us hw much our system sucks since we CLEARLY don't agree.

A new poll conducted by the Toronto-based Nanos Research points to overwhelming support — 86.2 percent — for strengthening public health care rather than expanding for-profit services.
“With more than 8 in 10 Canadians supporting public solutions to make public health care stronger, there is compelling evidence that Canadians across all demographics would prefer a public over a for-profit health care system,” said Nik Nanos, president of Nanos Research.
Nanos Research was commissioned by the Canadian Health Coalition (CHC), a nonpartisan group that supports Canada’s public health system, to conduct a random telephone survey of 1,001 Canadians between April 25 and May 3. The margin of accuracy for a sample of 1,001 is ±3.1 percentage points.
Meanwhile, Canada’s government just released a report titled “Healthy Canadians — A Federal Report on Comparable Health Indicators 2008.” Its findings almost identically mirror the CHC polling results. In that report, a leading indicator points to the fact that “Most Canadians (85.2 percent) aged 15 years and older reported being ‘very satisfied’ or ‘somewhat satisfied’ with the way overall health care services were provided, unchanged from 2005.”

http://www.correntewire.com/canadians_love_their_health_care_reject_us_style_competition

 

[woolfe9999]

Since we're throwing around useless anecdotes, I thought I'd inject some polling data into this. If the opinions of Canadians are paramount, let's look at what a statistically significant sample of them say. By the way, I didn't cherry pick this poll. It is the first one that pops up on google when you enter canada healthcare opinion poll:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canada.aspx

Summary: Canadians and Brits are more happy with the affordability of their care than Americans, and this is in 2003 and we've had 8 years of rapid cost growth since.

On quality of care, Canadians and Americans seem to have similar assessments of their systems, but the Brits rate theirs a little lower than the other two.

- wolf

 

[woolfe9999]

Yet only one of us is totally full of shit. That'd be you. Typical for a right winger when it comes to health care. Thank god we have you Americans to tell us hw much our system sucks since we CLEARLY don't agree.



http://www.correntewire.com/canadians_love_their_health_care_reject_us_style_competition

You seem to have posted this before I finished my own. They are two separate polls supporting similar conclusions, though mine is making a comparison with American opinions.

 

[Imp]

What part of what I said indicated my views on the matter. I specifically stated what several Canadians opinions were. Again, reading is too much for the average liberal.

lol.. ya.. BOo libural left-tards, you suck!


Nice original post about "first-hand" info from rich Canadians complaining about wait times and what not.

As a Canadian, who knows many Canadians, I haven't heard any complaints about wait times. In fact, I even know of at least one case of a citizen that moved to another country, but came back to abuse our system because her great new home country wouldn't re-imburse/pay for her $200k+ treatment.

I'm not saying there are no problems or issues with wait times, having never had a "major" sickness, but it's just good to know you based your opinion on that.

 

[soulcougher73]

Wow so many retards in this thread spewing info they think is true about UHC and Canada's UHC in general. You people may want to get informed and acquire this thing called knowledge. Im talking to you tards attacking Canada's UHC when you have no idea what you are talking about. Even actual Canadians are here telling you how it is and you are still blinded by your wrong idealogy.

 

[soulcougher73]

Cost. Freedom of choice. Giving up control of our lives and health care. Besides that why should I be charged with paying for the poor choices of others?

Lets break this down.

Cost - It costs less in Canada
Freedom of choice - they can see who they want just as we can
Giving up control of your life - To whom and how exactly?

Basically what you are saying is you are a certified retard and have no knowledge of which you speak.

 

[soundforbjt]

Wow so many retards in this thread spewing info they think is true about UHC and Canada's UHC in general. You people may want to get informed and acquire this thing called knowledge. Im talking to you tards attacking Canada's UHC when you have no idea what you are talking about. Even actual Canadians are here telling you how it is and you are still blinded by your wrong idealogy.

Hey, they heard it from Limpbaugh, Faux Noise, and right-wing bloggers, it has to be true.

 

[soulcougher73]

Funny, I am sitting in a room with 100 people and just asked them. Every last one agrees that Canada's system sucks. And they are all Canadians! What are the chances?

Wow, you showed him. Got anyting to add to this thread or just going to act the usual fool?