For second time, rockets found at UN school in Gaza

[Atreus21]

The problem with liberals on this forum is that they are too sheltered and naive. They believe in the fundamental goodness of people, and that everyone can be talked into doing the right thing, as long as one side concedes. Unfortunately, the real world isn't like that. Some people cannot be redeemed.

Check out my posts back when the boston marathon bombing happened. I called out islamic terrorism the second I heard of those attacks. Yet I was attacked by liberals who'd rather believe domestic right wing terrorists responsible. Perhaps in an effort to be politically correct? To be unable to believe that jihadists could do something so heinous, instead using politeness and liberal thinking to believe it could be native terrorists?

And guess what, I'd called it. Even worse, the terrorists were in the liberal "bleeding heart" asylum program - probably one of the most abused immigration programs there is, and that's saying a lot considering the government doesn't really enforce immigration laws.

So, while I think it's horrible that civilians are being killed in gaza, and my heart goes out to them, I have absolutely no hope that Hamas can ever be brought to any sort of negotiations. It sucks, but the only way the palestinians can hope for peace is if Hamas is utterly destroyed.

Speaking as a conservative, I can say with some confidence this problem is not unique to liberals, but to Americans in general. Or at least those with no military deployment experience. We live a sheltered life compared to you guys, and that inevitably affects our worldview.

 

[networkman]

The problem with liberals on this forum is that they are too sheltered and naive. They believe in the fundamental goodness of people, and that everyone can be talked into doing the right thing, as long as one side concedes. Unfortunately, the real world isn't like that. Some people cannot be redeemed.

Check out my posts back when the boston marathon bombing happened. I called out islamic terrorism the second I heard of those attacks. Yet I was attacked by liberals who'd rather believe domestic right wing terrorists responsible. Perhaps in an effort to be politically correct? To be unable to believe that jihadists could do something so heinous, instead using politeness and liberal thinking to believe it could be native terrorists?

And guess what, I'd called it. Even worse, the terrorists were in the liberal "bleeding heart" asylum program - probably one of the most abused immigration programs there is, and that's saying a lot considering the government doesn't really enforce immigration laws.

So, while I think it's horrible that civilians are being killed in gaza, and my heart goes out to them, I have absolutely no hope that Hamas can ever be brought to any sort of negotiations. It sucks, but the only way the palestinians can hope for peace is if Hamas is utterly destroyed.

+1 - Nailed it!

 

[zinfamous]

Speaking as a conservative, I can say with some confidence this problem is not unique to liberals, but to Americans in general. Or at least those with no military deployment experience. We live a sheltered life compared to you guys, and that inevitably affects our worldview.

And of course conservatives that never leave their Kentucky bluegrass or Kansas corn fields are well-versed in world experiences.

There is certainly value in military travel and experience, but wouldn't you agree that limiting one's perspective on the world outside of their home, only to war zones, produces a warped perspective on other cultures?

 

[emperus]

The problem with liberals on this forum is that they are too sheltered and naive. They believe in the fundamental goodness of people, and that everyone can be talked into doing the right thing, as long as one side concedes. Unfortunately, the real world isn't like that. Some people cannot be redeemed.

Check out my posts back when the boston marathon bombing happened. I called out islamic terrorism the second I heard of those attacks. Yet I was attacked by liberals who'd rather believe domestic right wing terrorists responsible. Perhaps in an effort to be politically correct? To be unable to believe that jihadists could do something so heinous, instead using politeness and liberal thinking to believe it could be native terrorists?

And guess what, I'd called it. Even worse, the terrorists were in the liberal "bleeding heart" asylum program - probably one of the most abused immigration programs there is, and that's saying a lot considering the government doesn't really enforce immigration laws.

So, while I think it's horrible that civilians are being killed in gaza, and my heart goes out to them, I have absolutely no hope that Hamas can ever be brought to any sort of negotiations. It sucks, but the only way the palestinians can hope for peace is if Hamas is utterly destroyed.

Tell me more, because your post doesn't really make too much sense.

To be unable to believe that jihadists could do something so heinous, instead using politeness and liberal thinking to believe it could be native terrorists?

I think we all lived through 9/11 and all the atrocities committed by Al Queda during the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. We also lived through any shooting or violent action maybe being because of Muslim terrorists (remember the DC sniper). What makes you believe anyone believes jihadists couldn't do anything so heinous? That just seems like failed logic.

Going further, a terrorists atrocity doesn't make my atrocity any much less worse. I think most liberals don't sugarcoat war and have the capability to be introspective. How many people did the US killl "liberating" Iraq (some people claim as "little" as 150,000 to as many as "1,000,000") deaths. Now if you are one of those people whose daughter/mother/father/son was killed what perspective of that situation do you have?

And just to make clear, I'm not defending terrorist actions. But I wish people would see conflicts from the perspectives of everyone involved.

 

[brandonb]

So, while I think it's horrible that civilians are being killed in gaza, and my heart goes out to them, I have absolutely no hope that Hamas can ever be brought to any sort of negotiations. It sucks, but the only way the palestinians can hope for peace is if Hamas is utterly destroyed.

Here is the problem though.

Hamas is not just a terrorist organization. They provide the same role as government for the Palestinians. They do more than just fire rockets into Israel. They provide support to their people. Here is what Wiki says.

Hamas is particularly popular among Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, though it also has a following in the West Bank, and to a lesser extent in other Middle Eastern countries. Its popularity stems in part from its welfare wing providing social services to Palestinians in the occupied territories. Such services are not generally provided by the Palestinian Authority. Israeli scholar Reuven Paz estimates that 90% of Hamas activities revolve around "social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities". Social services include running relief programs and funding schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues.[57]

90% of their activity is social services. Only 10% of their activities is considered military. When this group is providing basic services for the Palestinians, they are going to be supported by that populace. They are going to be looked at as the good guys. Removing Hamas will be looked at as destruction of their lifestyle. The Palestinians are going to resist it.

How do we fix the problem? There is no easy answer. But ultimately we need to replace the services Hamas is providing and make them irrelevant. Beating them into submission won't likely fix anything long term. Destroy Hamas and the Palestinians quality of life will tank. That will just breed more "terrorists."

It has nothing to do with being naïve or too sheltered. We need to look at the big picture. We also need to drop our egos and maybe do something we really don't want to do. There is a road to peace.

 

[Harabec]

While we were building shelters to protect our civilians, Hamas dug tunnels to protect its munitions and fighters.
There is an alternative - Fatah which already controls the west bank.

 

[rommelrommel]

Please try to keep up.

JediYoda said Jews didn't need the USA... I'm calling bullshit on it. To have him say that, he is denying the holocaust.

I fully believe the Holocaust happened and that Jews died in camps.

My bad, but I'm clearly not the only person that read it that way.

 

[nageov3t]

I read an article today that summed up my thoughts well..

None of this means that I think civilian casualties are acceptable in any way. This does not mean I support bombing kids on the beach or tank fire into hospitals. I do not condone those actions, nor do I support those that applaud those actions. Again, to be exceptionally clear, this does not excuse Israel's actions, and this does not give Israel cart blanche when it comes to targets.

But, at the same time, it does add a certain level of responsibility to Hamas when it comes to civilian casualties. Human shields are not a trump card in war, no nation should be able to simply base all of its operations from hospitals and schools and then act shocked and outraged when the group its attacking fired back at those locations.

 

[werepossum]

Here is the problem though.

Hamas is not just a terrorist organization. They provide the same role as government for the Palestinians. They do more than just fire rockets into Israel. They provide support to their people. Here is what Wiki says.

90% of their activity is social services. Only 10% of their activities is considered military. When this group is providing basic services for the Palestinians, they are going to be supported by that populace. They are going to be looked at as the good guys. Removing Hamas will be looked at as destruction of their lifestyle. The Palestinians are going to resist it.

How do we fix the problem? There is no easy answer. But ultimately we need to replace the services Hamas is providing and make them irrelevant. Beating them into submission won't likely fix anything long term. Destroy Hamas and the Palestinians quality of life will tank. That will just breed more "terrorists."

It has nothing to do with being naïve or too sheltered. We need to look at the big picture. We also need to drop our egos and maybe do something we really don't want to do. There is a road to peace.

Do you really believe that even before this latest flare-up life was better in Gaza than in the West Bank?

 

[Oldgamer]

So it has nothing to do with HAMAS repeatedly sending rockets into Israeli?

Hey listen I am not for terroristic activity but do any of you even wonder why Hamas and some of the Palestinians started with the whole rocket stuff to begin with? Or do you just eat up all that stuff the media keeps throwing at you and not think for yourself?

 

[werepossum]

I read an article today that summed up my thoughts well..

None of this means that I think civilian casualties are acceptable in any way. This does not mean I support bombing kids on the beach or tank fire into hospitals. I do not condone those actions, nor do I support those that applaud those actions. Again, to be exceptionally clear, this does not excuse Israel's actions, and this does not give Israel cart blanche when it comes to targets.

But, at the same time, it does add a certain level of responsibility to Hamas when it comes to civilian casualties. Human shields are not a trump card in war, no nation should be able to simply base all of its operations from hospitals and schools and then act shocked and outraged when the group its attacking fired back at those locations.

Spot on, although it's worth pointing out that when one side cannot stand up to the other side and yet refuses to give up and stand down, using civilians as shelter for military operations is not unique the the Palestinians.

 

[cabri]

Hey listen I am not for terroristic activity but do any of you even wonder why Hamas and some of the Palestinians started with the whole rocket stuff to begin with? Or do you just eat up all that stuff the media keeps throwing at you and not think for yourself?

Rockets were upping the ante;

They originally started with the Arab armies.
Then when that stopped working - suicide bombers - male.
Then when that stopped working - suicide bombers -children/females
Then when that stopped working - mortars.
Then when that stopped working - rockets.

Intent after the first effort seems to be inflict damage on the civilian population - they were unable to beat the military.

 

[Pulsar]

My post text is what it is and can be understood in many way but the video doesnt lie, all the israelis PR is bullshit, including this thread topic wich is a deflection to hide war crimes, that is, events of a much bigger importance.

Fascist regimes always relied on an huge and desesperate propaganda, and the israeli zionist regime doesnt make exception, being fascist and supremacist as well, if it was a legitimate regime it wouldnt need to constantly pressure the medias and people with endless whining and lies..

Ok. So let's be clear.

You're going to completely ignore the rockets found in the school, avoid placing any blame on Hamas, and call the Jewish people Nazis.

You do far more damage to Hamas' position than any poster here - having a raving lunatic like you supporting them simply undermines them - not that they need any help when they're randomly shooting rockets into Israel in the hopes of blowing up nuclear reactors.

Or was that just a 'deflection' too?

 

[zanejohnson]

yeah really can me make one mega thread about all the poor things that happens to Israel???

like the cops acting bad thread?

it's always Jediyoda or Mongrel, making these threads.. im tired of seeing news ones every single day.

 

[BUnit1701]

Hey, OP--how about you add all of your Israel knob-schlobbing posts into a single "I <3 Isreal; damn the brown(er) people!" thread, please?

So I take that to mean you support Hamas using schools as storage and launch facilities for its rockets?

 

[zanejohnson]

Ok. So let's be clear.

You're going to completely ignore the rockets found in the school, avoid placing any blame on Hamas, and call the Jewish people Nazis.

You do far more damage to Hamas' position than any poster here - having a raving lunatic like you supporting them simply undermines them - not that they need any help when they're randomly shooting rockets into Israel in the hopes of blowing up nuclear reactors.

Or was that just a 'deflection' too?

this is the last thing i'm gonna say about this.

I'm Jewish by heritage, but i dont support the State of Israel, i cant, with the ruthless retalliation.. i cant anymore.

i don't support Hamas either, but i dont blame them for shooting rockets into Israel, it's war. if they had jet fighters and bombers like Israel they would use those.. but they dont, so they have to resort to these pretty much ineffective missiles, into urban areas...........

it's not like Israel gives two shits about civilian casualties (unless it's a photo op moment at least) "look at us look at us, we're trying not to kill civilians SEE???"

while gaza is on fire. gaza, the fenced area they keep the palestenian civilians basically "jailed" in.

i really feel for the civilians of Israel and Palestine both..... Palestine is in hell right now.

but the world is turning on Israel, they're on borrowed time at this point and it's running out quick, and they know it.

 

[Abwx]

Ok. So let's be clear.

You're going to completely ignore the rockets found in the school, avoid placing any blame on Hamas, and call the Jewish people Nazis.

You do far more damage to Hamas' position than any poster here - having a raving lunatic like you supporting them simply undermines them - not that they need any help when they're randomly shooting rockets into Israel in the hopes of blowing up nuclear reactors.

Or was that just a 'deflection' too?

I dont need the zionists to tell me what the Hamas said and what this party is, i check the Hamas own words and actions, so far israelis fascists did kill palestinians at a rate of 90% at least being civilians that were deliberatly targeted, as is documented by videos, on the other side Hamas killed 32 israelis criminals militaries and did only 3 collateral damage, that is, 90% killed by Hamas are militaries....Hence Hamas is by far the most moral side , the videos and numbers dont lie, contrary to the zionists fascists whose despicable habits is to kill women and children using tanks to bombard randomly with shells containing 5000 metalic arrows each, the israelis are a sadistic and perverse people as aknowledged by their use of sadistic weapons on civilians :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ66iHMCQls&bpctr=1406149703

 

[nageov3t]

after 60 years of violence not working, though, why to the Palestinians think that more violence will eventually be the answer?

why not stop giving Israel pretext to invade and work with Egypt/Jordan on opening the borders for trade and travel?

 

[Harabec]

I dont need the zionists to tell me what the Hamas said and what this party is, i check the Hamas own words and actions, so far israelis fascists did kill palestinians at a rate of 90% at least being civilians that were deliberatly targeted, as is documented by videos, on the other side Hamas killed 32 israelis criminals militaries and did only 3 collateral damage, that is, 90% killed by Hamas are militaries....Hence Hamas is by far the most moral side , the videos and numbers dont lie, contrary to the zionists fascists whose despicable habits is to kill women and children using tanks to bombard randomly with shells containing 5000 metalic arrows each, the israelis are a sadistic and perverse people as aknowledged by their use of sadistic weapons on civilians :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ66iHMCQls&bpctr=1406149703

Ah, spreadsheet wars.
You're a sad joke.

 

[zanejohnson]

after 60 years of violence not working, though, why to the Palestinians think that more violence will eventually be the answer?

why not stop giving Israel pretext to invade and work with Egypt/Jordan on opening the borders for trade and travel?

look at a map. locate gaza. they are surrounded by Israel, and not allowed in Israel, therefore, they cannot pursue trade with anyone. Israel has them walled in.

 

[Borealis7]

after 60 years of violence not working, though, why to the Palestinians think that more violence will eventually be the answer?

why not stop giving Israel pretext to invade and work with Egypt/Jordan on opening the borders for trade and travel?

because the Hamas leaders get millions of dollars from Qatar and Iran to keep the situation as it is. with Israel occupied (excuse the pun) with Gaza, it deflects the attention of the world from their actions (specially Iran)

Hamas leader Ismail Hanniya (right side) on a private jet:

 

[nageov3t]

look at a map. locate gaza. they are surrounded by Israel, and not allowed in Israel, therefore, they cannot pursue trade with anyone. Israel has them walled in.

er, you might want to take your own advice.

Gaza shares a border with Egypt and two crossing points that have been shutdown by Egypt. the West Bank shares a border with Jordan and three crossing points along that border.

 

[Abwx]

because the Hamas leaders get millions of dollars from Qatar and Iran to keep the situation as it is. with Israel occupied (excuse the pun) with Gaza, it deflects the attention of the world from their actions (specially Iran)

Hamas leader Ismail Hanniya (right side) on a private jet:

Jet (a poor man s jet it seems) location is paid by another country, the money Hamas get is spent almost exclusively on social services and such actions.

Hamas is a political party with the sense of political responsabilities, contrary to both the israeli far right, that rule the whole of palestine, and its sub contractor abbas.

 

[JEDIYoda]

JediYoda said Jews didn't need the USA... I'm calling bullshit on it. To have him say that, he is denying the holocaust. <-- you are putting words in my mouth, that anybody who knows me, knows I believe the Holocaust happened!! Yet you can`t separate the liberation of the Jewish people during ww2 with the state of Israel being formed....again....Israel never asked for the United states to help.....

I fully believe the Holocaust happened and that Jews died in camps.

First of all you read what you wanted to read into my post!!
I am telling you that the We, the Jews did not ask for Truman`s help......we never asked for US intervention into anything!!

Of course the holocaust happened!! The issue is after the war Israel never asked for the help of the United States!!

Here was my post -- You have serious issues....

Let me ask you this.....if I come to you and say I feel I need to help you let me take care of you and help you and I promptly give say $20,000 and then say I do the same for the next few years.......now mind you, you did not ask for help yet I wanted to help you -- the reasons do not matter..the fact is I wanted to help you! You cannot honestly say even if you did not need my help that you would turn down my help....please don`t be goofy and say you would turn down my help...we all know that`s not true.....

Same thing happened between the United states and Israel.....
They never asked for nor did they tell the United states that they needed help.....

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...reign_aid.html

&#8220;It is my responsibility to see that our policy in Israel fits in with our policy throughout the world; second, it is my desire to help build in Palestine a strong, prosperous, free and independent democratic state. It must be large enough, free enough, and strong enough to make its people self-supporting and secure,&#8221; President Truman said in a speech October 28, 1948.

 

[JEDIYoda]

the money Hamas get is spent almost esclusively on social services and actions.

<-- that's a lie.....you a paid Hamas shill??