For Gaming i7-7700 or Ryzen1700?

[Topweasel]

Activision/Blizzard is a massive publisher/developer, so that totally wipes out your assertion that PC gaming is niche. Also, several other developers score high profits from PC gaming. The fact of the matter is, that PC gaming is constantly expanding, and hasn't been "niche" for a long time now, so get with the times already.

But when you cherry pick companies and statements to prove a point that you know isn't true it negates your statement.

Activision makes a ton of money off of WoW. With it's stable 6-8 million subscribers it alone brings in about a billion dollars a year. Over watch might have a larger presence on PC. But that is where it ends. Everything else is lead by console sales to point that's insane.

Steam is still the leader in Indie and near Indie releases and its the one occasion that were the PC release makes more money. PC plainly isn't the market to Target AAA games. Sure you can't ignore it but it's a long way from being a primary money source.

 

[Carfax83]

This is really off topic. But I don't get why it comes as a surprise. Consoles are cheaper, low maintenance and last longer. All pc games have going is better grafix and hackers ruining multiplayer games. When kids are young, their first going machine is almost always a console. Even at high school.

But from a 5min Google search, here is the total number of console users: 1338+ million. http://www.vgchartz.com/analysis/platform_totals/
Assuming that every pc gamer has 1 steam account there were 125 million active steam account. I know some fonot have steam, but some also have multiple accounts

But when you cherry pick companies and statements to prove a point that you know isn't true it negates your statement.

Activision makes a ton of money off of WoW. With it's stable 6-8 million subscribers it alone brings in about a billion dollars a year. Over watch might have a larger presence on PC. But that is where it ends. Everything else is lead by console sales to point that's insane.

Steam is still the leader in Indie and near Indie releases and its the one occasion that were the PC release makes more money. PC plainly isn't the market to Target AAA games. Sure you can't ignore it but it's a long way from being a primary money source.

I can't believe I am reading this garbage, and on a PC enthusiast forum no less! First off, you use VGChartz which only tracks retail sales for games. It doesn't track digital, which is much bigger on PC these days.

And then you list the total number of console owners from way back to the point of irrelevance, which is pure intellectual dishonesty. And even more, you portray "consoles" as a single platform, when comparing them to the PC which is just B.S!

How about we look at popular modern AAA games as a point of reference. Witcher 3 sold more on PC than on both the Xbox One and PS4 combined. Doom has sold nearly two million copies on PC according to Steam Spy. And this is at much higher profit margins than the consoles, plus much longer sales cycle. GTA V has sold over 7 million copies on Steam! Fallout 4 over 4 million!

The fact of the matter is, PC gaming is NOT a niche platform or hobby. If PC gaming was niche as you guys state, then we wouldn't be getting any cross platform games at all. The publishers simply wouldn't bother. The PC is the most profitable gaming platform by far, since it's open and developers don't have to give Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo etcetera any of their profits.

 

[Topweasel]

I can't believe I am reading this garbage, and on a PC enthusiast forum no less! First off, you use VGChartz which only tracks retail sales for games. It doesn't track digital, which is much bigger on PC these days.

And then you list the total number of console owners from way back to the point of irrelevance, which is pure intellectual dishonesty. And even more, you portray "consoles" as a single platform, when comparing them to the PC which is just B.S!

How about we look at popular modern AAA games as a point of reference. Witcher 3 sold more on PC than on both the Xbox One and PS4 combined. Doom has sold nearly two million copies on PC according to Steam Spy. And this is at much higher profit margins than the consoles, plus much longer sales cycle. GTA V has sold over 7 million copies on Steam! Fallout 4 over 4 million!

The fact of the matter is, PC gaming is NOT a niche platform or hobby. If PC gaming was niche as you guys state, then we wouldn't be getting any cross platform games at all. The publishers simply wouldn't bother. The PC is the most profitable gaming platform by far, since it's open and developers don't have to give Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo etcetera any of their profits.

It's the facts. This isn't something I am going to feed into the whole PCMR movement. I enjoy playing games on the Console. I enjoy playing games on my system. There are numerous reason't PC's still get AAA releases. Really all you need is one. Games are developed, new engines are developed, and so on for the performance of the consoles. PC development from there is a drop in the bucket cost wise, since any target gamer market is going to be running hardware well in excess of the console. They port it over, do some light optimization, QC it and ship it out. The returns are generally going to be worth it. This isn't a "PC is dead" moment but it is important to realize that it isn't the driving force in games it once was. Listing the few variations in the trend doesn't negate the truth. Realizing this doesn't negate someone enjoyment of games on PC. The general graphics fidelity. The better input options.

 

[guachi]

Modern consoles are essentially stripper PCs. At least, the Sony and MS consoles are.

PCs won the war. It's just up to the gamer whether he wants the (generally) cheaper console or the (generally) higher powered PC.

 

[tamz_msc]

Since never,I myself keep telling you again and again that it's one of the worst case scenarios.
But that was the discussion what's the worst case and it's ~50% difference.

Yeah and the 1600X ahead of the 6600K by 50% in Metro Last Light is also a worst case scenario. Since when did extremities of data become the basis of determining the overall picture? Dolphin benchmark results are just as useless as the results of a canned benchmark of a game. In reality there is no perceivable difference in gaming, outside of certain use cases.

It does if you only take a small number of games that you can artificially change the game characteristics of to make many cores look better then they are.

Again, go back to the page where I posted TPU results, the 7700K is ahead of the 1600X by a mere 7%, with a GTX 1080, an average of over 20 games. I can't believe that we are having this # of cores argument in 2017.

Low resolution testing removes gpu bottlenecks and shows you the true difference in whatever is being tested at the moment it's being tested there is nothing "over time" about it.

Yeah, at the moment, in May 2017, the FX8350 is faster than the 2500K in their testing. What does it amount to in real life? A big nothing.

 

[Agent-47]

I First off, you use VGChartz which only tracks retail sales for games. It doesn't track digital, which is much bigger on PC these days.

There is no need to act like I shot your puppy.

They sold 400+ million devices from store? Who buys stuff at store?

These number are also sold to companies. Do you reckon anyone would buy their service if their internal record din add up with the vgchart?

Anyway, do a survey of random ppl and you will find out how many games where. Its easy and free if you using google survey and share it in Facebook. Just make sure you delete data from the first day or two as those will be people in your inner circle and hence probably think like you, skewing the data

 

[IllogicalGlory]

That would convince people if there weren't already games out there that are all caught up, like WD2 I talked about earlier where a 3Ghz 8c intel cpu matches a 4+Ghz i7 because the game scales to a lot of cores,well on ryzen it falls short although ryzen has the same amount of threads as the intel hedt.

Yeah right,4ghz ryzen core with 3200 mem against 4,5Ghz kaby core with the same mem the ryzen is 67% slower than the kaby with a ~13% frequency deficit so core 2 core clock 2 clock ryzen is about 50% slower then kaby.
The only reason why ryzen even gets close to the i7 in some games is because everybody only uses games that are on the bleeding edge of "caughtupedness"..

49% advantage to the 7700K, with a 1.125% clock speed advantage leading to 32% advantage in that particular benchmark according to computerbase, with Haswell (using the 5960X at 3.5GHz as reference) is 14.2% ahead clock to clock. Obviously that particular application heavily favors Intel (and makes good use of Skylake improvements), but it's one workload.

In this benchmark Kaby Lake is only 5% ahead clock to clock. Why can't we take that one as the final word on Ryzen's per-core performance?

The truth is as always somewhere in the middle, with games being an entirely different case that has to be considered on its own.

 

[Agent-47]

Yeah right,4ghz ryzen core with 3200 mem against 4,5Ghz kaby core with the same mem the ryzen is 67% slower than the kaby with a ~13% frequency deficit so core 2 core clock 2 clock ryzen is about 50% slower then kaby.
The only reason why ryzen even gets close to the i7 in some games is because everybody only uses games that are on the bleeding edge of "caughtupedness"..

Why do you reckon the i5 vs i7 results are so close? Lol

I am no professional coder, but even my codes can utilize 24 threads.

Its funny how Intel fanboys, yes fanboys, are always changing the goal posts. Before ryzen they used to get blisters on their typing figures quoting cinebench scores on forum, and now everyone is quoting an awful code that does not scale with thread.

I bet if I had access to the source code, I could optimize it run 10 times faster on Intel CPUs. You don't use a poorly optimized code for benchmarking reason.

 

[TheELF]

Why do you reckon the i5 vs i7 results are so close? Lol

20% difference in clocks 20% difference in completion time...

Its funny how Intel fanboys, yes fanboys, are always changing the goal posts. Before ryzen they used to get blisters quoting cinebench scores on forum, and now everyone is quoting a good a code that does not scale with thread.

Look up "ibm power superslice" to get an understanding of why CB and a lot of other parallel workload single threaded benches now show you something completely different then they did before.

I bet if I had access to the source code, I could optimize it run 10 times faster on Intel cpus. You don't use a poorly optimized code for benchmarking reason.

Yes,please do so, the emulation community,me included,will be grateful.
https://github.com/dolphin-emu/dolphin

 

[Agent-47]

1. 20% difference in clocks 20% difference in completion time...

2. Look up "ibm power superslice" to get an understanding of why CB and a lot of other parallel workload single threaded benches now show you something completely different then they did before.

3. Yes,please do so, the emulation community,me included,will be grateful.
https://github.com/dolphin-emu/dolphin

1. exactly, it does not see extra threads.
2. changing goalpost when it suits.
3. Did not realize it was opensource. I would if it increased the productivity of my workload.

 

[TheELF]

1. exactly, it does not see extra threads.
2. changing goalpost when it suits.
3. Did not realize it was opensource. I would if it increased the productivity of my workload.

1.exactly, worst case scenario,that's what I'm saying.
2.Yes you are,worst means worst not moderately not ok'ish but worst,worst case scenario is different for every CPU especially if it's a new architecture.

 

[itsmydamnation]

@TheELF care to back up your worse case with actual games, cuz you know its a gaming thread. We can all go looking for compile time benchmarks showing a ryzen comfortably beating a 7700 but whats the point of doing it in this thread.

Just more of the same old 1/2 truths and miss information from you......

Ryzen can sustain 5uops a cycle every cycle if the right code is run skylake/kabylake can't, im sure we can create a benchmark where we use that and make it fit in 512kb of cache and then point at laugh at the "woeful" kabylake, it would carry about as much value as your current point...........

 

[Agent-47]

1.exactly, worst case scenario,that's what I'm saying.
2.Yes you are,worst means worst not moderately not ok'ish but worst,worst case scenario is different for every CPU especially if it's a new architecture.

huh? if its worst case scenario, why quote it? this is the second time in last two days that I noticed you are representing worst case (sometimes unrealistic ) as being the norm. the other time with the -55 to 120C temp fluctuations.

seems like you got tangled in all the misinformation that you are spreadinI. i suggest brainstorming and giving it a shot later on.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Modern consoles are essentially stripper PCs. At least, the Sony and MS consoles are.

PCs won the war. It's just up to the gamer whether he wants the (generally) cheaper console or the (generally) higher powered PC.

You mean X86 won the war, at least temporarily. I still think ARM could take over eventually, as the chips get more powerful, integrating console and phone gaming.
As far as consoles being a PC, maybe I should take an XBox to work tomorrow to run my spreadsheets and data bases, and graph my experimental data. I could explain to my boss that it really is a PC in disguise.