For all you Opeth fans...5.1 mixes are amazing! - Samples now included!

hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
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I highly recommend obtaining a copy of the 5.1 mixes of Still Life, Blackwater Park, Ghost Reveries, and Watershed. After downmixing the 5.1 recording to stereo, you'll have a much better recording of the album! I used Audacity and can post instructions for individual albums if anyone is interested.

That is all. I expect this to be noticed by very few. :p
 
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alevasseur14

Golden Member
Feb 12, 2005
1,760
1
0
I'll have to check them out. Never heard of them but I did just get my home theatre all sorted out and only have one 5.1 DVD of a Foo Fighters album.
 

biggestmuff

Diamond Member
Mar 20, 2001
8,201
2
0
You're taking the lossy, 5.1 (5.0 in some cases) mixes and converting it to two-channel PCM. I haven't done it or heard it, but it can't be "better", only different.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,920
2,161
126
I keep seeing Oprah remix, and I'm picturing a large woman shaking her finger at an audience saying "g-g-g-g-g-g-g-irlfriend!"
 

AFurryReptile

Golden Member
Nov 5, 2006
1,998
1
76
I'm a huge Opeth fan, but rarely do I actually sit at home - the only place I have a 5.1 setup - and listen to music. I'm a little skeptical to believe that mixing an album myself will turn out better than the original...
 

hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
76
yeah ac3 is amazingly small in size. The reason it sounds better to you is because your fold down is louder. Louder sounds better hence the loudness wars.

Don't get me wrong. I'm more along the lines of an audiophile and have taken this all into account. The original Opeth albums actually seem to be no better when it comes to the loudness wars. Every file of there's I load into Audacity has tons of clipping and such.

If you decode the .vob files to dts and load that into Audacity (I believe it requires a plugin), what you find is 5 separate channels that each have NO clipping. You can save this with a custom downmixing, setting each channel where it needs to go. L/R (front and back) obviously go, well, left and right. Center goes to both channels. You need to drop the gain on the center channel more so than the others, as it sticks it in both channels equally to the value you set it.

You do need to drop the overall gain of ALL channels so that the downmixed file doesn't introduce clipping (and it is possible). For both Still Life and Watershed, I've found that the front and back L/R channels work best with equal gain settings. The center channel in Still Life was set considerably lower than the rest (otherwise the vocals and other parts of the track are entirely too loud). Watershed actually had the center channel having a closer gain to the other channels compared to Still Life.

The result is an Opeth album with no clipping from the source to the result, among better quality in many other ways. They're quiter than the CD mix, that's for sure!

I'm a huge Opeth fan, but rarely do I actually sit at home - the only place I have a 5.1 setup - and listen to music. I'm a little skeptical to believe that mixing an album myself will turn out better than the original...

You'd be surprised. If you listen to Still Life, it's missing some detail. It sounds a bit...muddy... suppressed, even. Hell, it even has channel drop outs (listen to "Face of Melinda")! To my surprised, the 5.1 mix does NOT have this! What you also find is better clarity in instruments, resulting in a much cleaner sound. I'm not talking about a sound that you can reproduce by upping the treble frequency with an equalizer.

The same can be said for Watershed. It's a cleaner sound. Better instrument separation, sound stage, you name it. Some of the guitar work gets lost in the sound on the CD mix...and it's still a bit apparent in the 5.1 mix as well, but it is better. In particular, I found the vocals in "Porcelain Heart" to be easier to understand. They're no louder or softer than the CD mix either.

It takes a LOT of trial and error to take the 5 channels and downmix it properly to 2. It does require that you listen a lot to the CD so you can get an idea what gains should be set for what channels (mostly the center). That said, there are still some times when taking 5.1 and downmixing it results in weirdness (I can think of only one small spot on Still Life, though). It's just the way they remixed some of the channels.

I can assure you that this is not some BS. It's still roughly CD quality, so don't get me wrong. It's no miracle. The resulting WAV file after all of this for an album sits right around 700MB. That said, it sounds like what the album SHOULD have sounded like compared to what you actually got.

BTW, the program I used to extract the DTS audio from the VOB file was called DGIndex.

Update: Just doing some quick work with the 5.1 Blackwater Park mix...the improvements aren't as noticeable with this recording. So far, Still Life has turned out the best followed by Watershed.
 
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Key West

Banned
Jan 20, 2010
922
0
0
Last time I experienced something like that for separated audio channels are old school Dolby Prologic back in 90s.

It was awesome. All my friends brought their cassette/CDs and listened how DP would separate certain elements to the rear speakers. We'd listen to California Love by 2Pac and be amazed how the rap is in the front channels and the rear speakers perfectly isolated the female backdrop singing.
 

hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
76
There's something wrong with my copy of the Blackwater Park Legacy Edition (dvd) I "obtained" (I've purchased the album before, just not the new one, and I have purchased all of the other DVDs I've mentioned thus far). The files I have will fill a whole single layer DVD. However, it's missing park of "Bleak", all of "Harvest", and part of "The Drapery Falls".

This is really disappointing. :( Hopefully the copy of Ghost Reveries I ordered will not have this issue.
 

Platypus

Lifer
Apr 26, 2001
31,046
321
136
too bad their last album was pretty shite for the most part. They need Peter back.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,277
1,784
126
too bad their last album was pretty shite for the most part. They need Peter back.

I liked Watershed, though personally my favorite is, and will always be Morningrise ... as that's from when I first heard Opeth
 

AFurryReptile

Golden Member
Nov 5, 2006
1,998
1
76
is this some growly bullshit or do they actually sing? should i check them out?

If you don't like "growly" at all, then you'll hate Opeth. If you don't mind that sort of thing, these guys are about as talented as it gets. You'll get a mixes between blues, folk, death metal, and everything in between. They're pretty awesome.

Listen to this, it's a good example of what Opeth is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSSLXMzxxP8
 

Kalmah

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2003
3,692
1
76
I am looking forward to trying this.

And yes, I want Peter back as well.
 
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hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
76
too bad their last album was pretty shite for the most part. They need Peter back.

As much as I like their older stuff, it was starting to get old. From "My Arms, You Hearse" through "Deliverance", I felt like their sound was getting sort of stale. I can appreciate the differences, but I felt like something new was needed. "Ghost Reveries" is actually one of my favorite albums from them. "Watershed" is, I think, one of their best works yet though. It's not my favorite, but I think the broad variety of musical styles they used was extremely impressive and executed really well. It's good to see a band truly expand for once, which I feel like Opeth is doing (compared to changing into something worse, becoming a sellout, or rehashing old material). They're maturing, I think. However, despite the amazing moments it had, I felt like it did have some extra filler...

That said, "The Lotus Eater" is my favorite song of theirs. It feels like it encapsulates the old with the new, but with a twist. Plus it's just downright fun to listen to, and the "funky" part in it (I don't know what else to call it) blew my mind when I first heard it.
 

meltdown75

Lifer
Nov 17, 2004
37,548
7
81
If you don't like "growly" at all, then you'll hate Opeth. If you don't mind that sort of thing, these guys are about as talented as it gets. You'll get a mixes between blues, folk, death metal, and everything in between. They're pretty awesome.

Listen to this, it's a good example of what Opeth is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSSLXMzxxP8
hmm i will click on that later, youtube is blocked here

well... i like these songs....

disturbed - stricken
killswitch engage - my curse
slipknot - before i forget
slash w. nick oliveri - chains and shackles
all that remains - six

so are they more growly than those? that would be the high-end of my growly tunes on my ipod. i'm going to jam them while i wait for a reply. i don't mind growly as long as there are some melodic breaks.
 

hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
76
hmm i will click on that later, youtube is blocked here

well... i like these songs....

disturbed - stricken
killswitch engage - my curse
slipknot - before i forget
slash w. nick oliveri - chains and shackles
all that remains - six

so are they more growly than those? that would be the high-end of my growly tunes on my ipod. i'm going to jam them while i wait for a reply. i don't mind growly as long as there are some melodic breaks.

Opeth's songs are full of parts where there's no growling. However, Akerfeldt (vocalist) arguably has the best growl in metal, so you may still be able to listen to it without issue.

That said, you can't really compare their music to any other band. You'll really just have to listen to them. As a suggestion, listen to each song a few times. For new listeners, it usually takes that in order to "get" their style. I suggest starting with "The Lotus Eater" and "Ghost of Perdition".
 

hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
76
For those of you who aren't quite convinced, I've decided to upload a sample so you can do a direct comparison between the downmix of "Serenity Painted Death" (from Still Life) and the version from the CD. Each is a 45 second clip, starting at the beginning of the song.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LAHYS70I

What you should instantly notice in the downmix is that the drums don't sound suppressed anymore. Everything has a more natural, cleaner sound to it. The drum kick really kicks! Before it just sounded kind of like a muddy thump. These are just a few examples.

The vocal track may be a bit louder than normal. As I said, I've not perfected mixing it all together, and there will always be some slight differences that you just can't change. However, the overall sound is much better, IMO! I'm very satisfied with how the dowmix of Still Life turned out.

The differences will be most apparent on high-end setups (stereos or headphones).

ALSO: The original recording of Still Life has TONS of clipping. Just load up one of the original songs ripped from the album in Audacity. It's a mess! Downmixing the 5.1 DVD essentially means you aren't getting an album that is a "victim" of loudness wars. However, this means a direct comparison between the downmix and original versions is difficult, as the latter is much louder. To save you all the trouble, I lowered the volume in the CD sample so that it matched the lower volume of the downmix sample. This makes a direct comparison much easier.

You can load the samples both into Audacity to see that the downmix isn't nearly as compressed. It has a much higher dynamic range. If you were to load the original rip into Audacity with clipping indicators turned on, however, you'd notice that "Serenity Painted Death" clips all over the place (while being compressed).
 
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Platypus

Lifer
Apr 26, 2001
31,046
321
136
As much as I like their older stuff, it was starting to get old. From "My Arms, You Hearse" through "Deliverance", I felt like their sound was getting sort of stale. I can appreciate the differences, but I felt like something new was needed. "Ghost Reveries" is actually one of my favorite albums from them. "Watershed" is, I think, one of their best works yet though. It's not my favorite, but I think the broad variety of musical styles they used was extremely impressive and executed really well. It's good to see a band truly expand for once, which I feel like Opeth is doing (compared to changing into something worse, becoming a sellout, or rehashing old material). They're maturing, I think. However, despite the amazing moments it had, I felt like it did have some extra filler...

That said, "The Lotus Eater" is my favorite song of theirs. It feels like it encapsulates the old with the new, but with a twist. Plus it's just downright fun to listen to, and the "funky" part in it (I don't know what else to call it) blew my mind when I first heard it.

I honestly think Ghost Reveries is their best album to date.. it is the pinnacle of their sound. I agree that there's not much room to grow from there but I really didn't like the direction they took with Watershed. Losing two critical members is another important factor.. yeah the new drummer might be technically better, he doesn't sound the same or nearly as cohesive as their previous.
 

hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
76
I honestly think Ghost Reveries is their best album to date.. it is the pinnacle of their sound. I agree that there's not much room to grow from there but I really didn't like the direction they took with Watershed. Losing two critical members is another important factor.. yeah the new drummer might be technically better, he doesn't sound the same or nearly as cohesive as their previous.

I can see why people didn't like where they went. It's definitely different. As for their two new members, I actually think it was a good move. Their new guitarist seems to be better than Peter, which will help them to expand their sound (meaning technical skills won't be a barrier). The same goes for the drummer. Other than that, I feel like they're no less cohesive compared to their previous members. They seem to have fit in really well, and I like what they brought with Watershed. I can see where people are coming from, though.

I will say that it was hard to tell these two guys were newer members when I saw them last year. They seem to fit in extremely well.

However, considering this is essentially Akerfeldt's band, I don't feel like the other members are terribly important (no offense to them).