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rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
85
91
It's OK for an iPhone to be made by underpaid foreign workers, but it's really wrong for this farmer to hire underpaid foreign workers to pick tomatoes.


Actually, yes, that's correct. The iphone is made in another country where the workers work under whatever conditions the laws of that country dictate. The farmer is in the US and thus has to abide by US laws and pay appropriate wages to his employees, and he should only hire those who are legally allowed to work here.

And I might add if one is not happy with the working conditions provided by Apple, do not purchase one of their products. My guess is most people with iphones, ipads, macs really don't give a rats ass about working conditions at Apple's Chinese manufacturing plants.

Here is the U.S. we have enforceable laws like Pokerguy pointed out that dictate how much a farmer should be paying workers. If local labor is hard to come by, a LEGAL means of acquiring foreign workers exists.
 

Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
0
0
Do you not see the problem? It also doesn't matter who else exhibits racism, if someone from the south exhibits racism, it isn't an excuse for you to categorize southerners the way you do, unless you also want to be called racist.

Since you are not okay with being called a racist, I suggest you stop with these kind of remarks and simply point out racism when you see it and not devolve into the type of racism that you abhor.

Wait - what?!

So, when I make comments like; "wez wooried about that thar black fellar in the thar whait house" you honestly think I am slamming ALL white southerners... when I clearly stated earlier (in this thread even) I am shitting all over racist white southers.

The only way you would find my comments "offensive" is if you were a racists white southners. And, I honestly don't care if you find my insults towards racist white southern inbred vomit trash, offensive.

I admit I don't always use the word racist when I spew shit about southern trash, but when the comments point to fears of a racist sack of shit, my trash talk is about,... racist sacks of shit. Not white southerners.

I think you guys are streching it kind of thin.

And, when I DO point to a specific peice of garabage (again, racist) that is pretending to be high and mighty on these forums, I do it because they try to get cute with the racist comments. Again, grow a fucking pair; but, then again, you can't say the shit that is on your mind in public, because you'd get the shit kicked out of you. And, even on these forums you hide - what's it like living a life of fear?

And, it's not you momeNt, again, it's the diseased minds that pretend they aren't racist and mask their messages. Or, just pretend nothing was ever said or happened; like a777pilot, who is a the biggest bigot I ever came across on the internet and now pretends he never said any of the shit he is known for.
 
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davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
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,... and you still ignore the stuff I called you out on ignoring.

Thanks.

:)

Oh, you think you pwned me because I did not comment on "that one person" (your words)? First of all, maybe you will get lucky today and your balls will drop so you can name that person. Secondly, talk about deflection. Why is the onus on me to comment on someone else, whom I might add have no fucking clue who you are referring too?

You just add to have an that extra bowl of Deflection for breakfast this morning, eh? And for you to bitch about not addressing the core issue is just about the height of hypocrisy and douchebaggery. You are the king of the racist comment that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Here is your problem.

Chad Smith from the article is only mentioned in this passage.

So what do we know about Chad Smith - His picture is linked in the article.

566747e6628eba16fa0e6a7067004f79.jpg


We can see he is white from the picture and from reading the article we learn that he owns a farm in Alabama. He also apparently can't find workers to pick his tomatoes.

Here is what you wrote about Chad Smith.

You managed to type all that from a white person owning a tomato farm in Alabama who apparently can't find workers willing to pick tomatoes for the wages to earn him a profit over just letting them rot.

Do you not see the problem? It also doesn't matter who else exhibits racism, if someone from the south exhibits racism, it isn't an excuse for you to categorize southerners the way you do, unless you also want to be called racist.

Since you are not okay with being called a racist, I suggest you stop with these kind of remarks and simply point out racism when you see it and not devolve into the type of racism that you abhor.
The only problem with that is he sees racism literally everywhere there are white people. Or non-white people who aren't in lockstep with Obama.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
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Good

He shouldn't be in business to begin with if all he is going to pay for is slave labor.

I agree with you in some sense actually (need to define slave labor wages for before I go full agreement). He should let the local welfare office know that he is in desperate need of workers, and if what you quoted is true, immediate employment if available.

Are people worried that a mass exodus of illegal immigrants will cause some businesses to come to a screeching halt? With all of those drawing unemployment right now, this sounds like one of those "killing two birds with one stone" situations.

Just want to ensure I am understanding correctly, going on very little sleep at the moment. D:



disclaimer: I typed this out probably 3-4 hours ago, but the forum db was timing out so I copied my comment into notepad and now that the db is accepting comments again, well here it is.
 

Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
0
0
Oh, you think you pwned me because I did not comment on "that one person" (your words)? First of all, maybe you will get lucky today and your balls will drop so you can name that person.
I did. At 12:19pm I corrected his name.

Oh, and "pwned" - yes, very cute. Keep dancing little fella. That's it, you little pixy. Prance around. So so adorable.

Secondly, talk about deflection. Why is the onus on me to comment on someone else, whom I might add have no fucking clue who you are referring too?
You have a problem with racist remarks against whites, but, I don't see you causing a stink against CONSTANT remarks against Muslims, Africans and African Americans.

You just add to have an that extra bowl of Deflection for breakfast this morning, eh? And for you to bitch about not addressing the core issue is just about the height of hypocrisy and douchebaggery. You are the king of the racist comment against racist whites that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I had to add that little part in bold there. I do realize I haven't made it clear that when I mock white southern trash with comments like "that thar black presidant is after our womens!" you can't get it's pointed at racist white trash, so lets set the record straight and clear; it's against racist white trash. Not whites.
 

Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
0
0
The only problem with that is he sees racism literally everywhere there are white people. Or non-white people who aren't in lockstep with Obama.

I admit, I don't do a good enough job of using the word racist when I am mocking racist white trash. But, my comments are directed to white racist garabage. Not white people.

"aren't in lockstep with Obama" - well, it depends. If people keep pulling nonsense shit out of their ass, then it can indeed be racists.

Example; it's been proven Obama was born in the US. Yet, there are plenty of folks who don't accept that. Why is that? Because they KNOW something we don't? Because they have evidence that proves he isn't a US citizen?

Or, how about the crys of communism against Obama - all the while he worse than Bush when it comes to playing favorites to corporate America?? Wait,... which is it guys; is he a puppet for the rich or a minion of zombie Stalin?? Or, is he Hitler? If you can't make up your mind on how or what kind of bad Obama is, then the things you label him as are things you pulled out of your ass, because you are afraid to say what is really in your heart and mind.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I admit, I don't do a good enough job of using the word racist when I am mocking racist white trash. But, my comments are directed to white racist garabage. Not white people.

"aren't in lockstep with Obama" - well, it depends. If people keep pulling nonsense shit out of their ass, then it can indeed be racists.

Example; it's been proven Obama was born in the US. Yet, there are plenty of folks who don't accept that. Why is that? Because they KNOW something we don't? Because they have evidence that proves he isn't a US citizen?

Or, how about the crys of communism against Obama - all the while he worse than Bush when it comes to playing favorites to corporate America?? Wait,... which is it guys; is he a puppet for the rich or a minion of zombie Stalin?? Or, is he Hitler? If you can't make up your mind on how or what kind of bad Obama is, then the things you label him as are things you pulled out of your ass, because you are afraid to say what is really in your heart and mind.
I agree about the Birthers. As to his being Marxist - have you read "Dreams from my father"? It's scary crazy.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
I think with this thread and article you had an excellent opportunity to begin some discussion on what is going on in Alabama. Instead the thread ended up turning into name-calling fest that detracts from the importance of this issue.

One of the problems I see here is that Alabama has taken away its source of underpaid labor, while other states have not. So in order for farmer Chad Smith to even sell his tomatoes he is forced to pay a fair wage, which will not get his tomatoes sold because others still employ underpaid illegal labor.

I find it surprising that the labor was so cheap before that he currently takes less of a loss letting them rot as opposed to paying a fair wage and selling them at a loss.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
I do realize I haven't made it clear that when I mock white southern trash with comments like "that thar black presidant is after our womens!" you can't get it's pointed at racist white trash, so lets set the record straight and clear; it's against racist white trash. Not whites.

Maybe you simply shouldn't make generalities about entire regions instead. In this case, a region that has many different ethnicities, and the highest population of African Americans as well. By only making those comments you have a reputation for, as a byproduct you ignore racism sourced from other groups. But I am 99.9% sure you are one of those types who think only white people can be racist, and/or racism from other groups is somehow justified.

You are so transparent you probably don't see a reflection in the mirror. :rolleyes:
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
I think with this thread and article you had an excellent opportunity to begin some discussion on what is going on in Alabama. Instead the thread ended up turning into name-calling fest that detracts from the importance of this issue.

One of the problems I see here is that Alabama has taken away its source of underpaid labor, while other states have not. So in order for farmer Chad Smith to even sell his tomatoes he is forced to pay a fair wage, which will not get his tomatoes sold because others still employ underpaid illegal labor.

I find it surprising that the labor was so cheap before that he currently takes less of a loss letting them rot as opposed to paying a fair wage and selling them at a loss.

Those who are on welfare and able bodied should be put to work immediately on his farm to help earn those benefits. I realize I have not finished my first cuppa, but does this sound crazy to anyone, logistical issues aside?

And for my part, I apologize for any derailment I caused. I am just so sick of all the hate that goes unchecked in this forum for our southern countrymen and women. And I haven't even been to the south! I have lived here in the NW basically my whole life. Well, my grandma did take me to DisneyWorld once when I was like 7 but that doesn't count.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
I admit, I don't do a good enough job of using the word racist when I am mocking racist white trash. But, my comments are directed to white racist garabage. Not white people.

"aren't in lockstep with Obama" - well, it depends. If people keep pulling nonsense shit out of their ass, then it can indeed be racists.

Example; it's been proven Obama was born in the US. Yet, there are plenty of folks who don't accept that. Why is that? Because they KNOW something we don't? Because they have evidence that proves he isn't a US citizen?

Or, how about the crys of communism against Obama - all the while he worse than Bush when it comes to playing favorites to corporate America?? Wait,... which is it guys; is he a puppet for the rich or a minion of zombie Stalin?? Or, is he Hitler? If you can't make up your mind on how or what kind of bad Obama is, then the things you label him as are things you pulled out of your ass, because you are afraid to say what is really in your heart and mind.

This will be my last comment on this issue, in this thread at least, MomeNt reminded us all this thread is for something else.

Take your last paragraph. Cries of communism against Obama, but by whom? And Hitler, but by whom? Go talk to them, and address them as such, you are painting an entire region and/or race as racist because of a few issues. Then you suggest that the core of the matter is that they are saying those things because they are racist, yet you are projecting the communism/Hitler BS on more than the originator. What does that make you?

This is one of the reasons why it is so damn difficult to have an honest discussion about racism and related solutions today, because of assholes like yourself that are convinced it is everywhere.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
I think with this thread and article you had an excellent opportunity to begin some discussion on what is going on in Alabama. Instead the thread ended up turning into name-calling fest that detracts from the importance of this issue.

One of the problems I see here is that Alabama has taken away its source of underpaid labor, while other states have not. So in order for farmer Chad Smith to even sell his tomatoes he is forced to pay a fair wage, which will not get his tomatoes sold because others still employ underpaid illegal labor.

I find it surprising that the labor was so cheap before that he currently takes less of a loss letting them rot as opposed to paying a fair wage and selling them at a loss.
Agreed, that is the problem for Alabama farmers and businesses. But at least it's a start.

Farmer Smith may have to not only pay more, but actively court tomato pickers. I bet if he went downtown with a bushel basket and said I'm paying fifty cents for each one of these you can fill with ripe, undamaged tomatoes and I'll provide transportation to and from, he'd find plenty of tomato pickers. Lots of people who really want work would have no clue about how to go about finding farm labor.
 

Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
0
0
This will be my last comment on this issue, in this thread at least,,...
I place the blaim on myself when addressing narrow minded selective people. I'll be sure to remind myself from not even bothering next time.

Cries of communism against Obama, but by whom? And Hitler, but by whom?

,... so selective,... so blind.
 
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Macamus Prime

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2011
3,108
0
0
One of the problems I see here is that Alabama has taken away its source of underpaid labor, while other states have not. So in order for farmer Chad Smith to even sell his tomatoes he is forced to pay a fair wage, which will not get his tomatoes sold because others still employ underpaid illegal labor.

I find it surprising that the labor was so cheap before that he currently takes less of a loss letting them rot as opposed to paying a fair wage and selling them at a loss.

Georgia experienced the same thing not too long ago.

Also, the article points out that legal workers are fleeing as well, they don't feel welcomed.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
30,383
912
126
I wasn't really that surprised when I read this article. I've lived in Alabama for nearing two years now, and the one prevalent attitude I've noticed is that people are always afraid of a possible consequence regardless of the actual chances of it occurring. Of course, this thought process isn't restricted to the south, I just notice it here a lot more than I did when I lived in Pennsylvania or New York.

But anyway... where I'm going with that is how the article talked about legal immigrants that are afraid to go to work. Essentially, these people are afraid that Mr. Overbearing Cop is going to pull them over and detain them even if they can prove that they are legal citizens.

Honestly, how often do any of you think this will happen if at all?

As for the part where they're unable to fill the vacant jobs, what disappoints me is that the article doesn't (at least from what I remember) go into how much the farmer is offering to pay legit workers. Is he only offering the bare minimum wage?
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Still not seeing any white boys in the labor lines I know of. They must not need the jobs.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,106
2,157
136
Still not seeing any white boys in the labor lines I know of. They must not need the jobs.


The white boys are making meth these days.

The poor white and black folks who used to do this work have either moved on to a different type of work or gone on welfare. Good luck getting them back in the fields doing hard work if they are on welfare.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,106
2,157
136
Except for punishing the slack jawed chaw chewing inbred asshole who hired them in the 1st place?


Your description might fit the typical southern redneck species but it does not fit the typical southern farmer who is normally a hard working business person.

You have a lot of rage in you.

I'll put you back on ignore now where you belong. Come back when you grow up.
 

SlitheryDee

Lifer
Feb 2, 2005
17,252
19
81
Seems like some of that 150k could go toward making the job more desirable to the americans in the area. People are like that though. They get used to cheap labor after a while and suddenly they feel that having to pay a bit more is the same thing as not having workers. Really all it is is their refusal to take less. Let them lose a crop or two and the problem will correct itself. They'll find the optimal balance between paying more for American workers and leaving crops to rot in the fields soon enough.
 
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chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Now the local unemployment office local to these farms needs to take the closest people not on a disability, and tell them, report to the farm, there's your new job. Check stops coming end of month.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,106
2,157
136
This is a start.

Alabama immigration law: Farmers get new help for harvest (with slideshow)
Published: Friday, October 07, 2011, 5:30 AM
By Hannah Wolfson -- The Birmingham News The Birmingham News


Ellen Jenkins had 50 acres of produce and no one to pick it, after Alabama's tough new immigration law sent her field hands packing.

But on Thursday, about 20 workers, mostly inexperienced, arrived at her Chandler Mountain farm to help, by midafternoon picking 125 cartons of tomatoes just in time to keep the harvest from being a total loss.

"Me and my kids were going to just pick what we could and I didn't even think we were going to get any help," Jenkins said.

The fill-in workers were brought to the farm near Steele by Grow Alabama, a Birmingham-based network that works with farmers from around the state to market locally-grown produce. Just a few days after launching the temporary assistance program, it's been overwhelmed, Grow Alabama head Jerry Spencer said Thursday.

Spencer is talking with the state agriculture department about finding funding for transportation. And Agriculture Commissioner John McMillan said Thursday that he's trying to make arrangements to use people from the Department of Corrections' work-release program as field hands, and to pull unemployed workers off the state rolls, as well. McMillan said the details weren't finalized, but there could be something up and running next week.

"This is a short-term thing, just to get the crops out of the field right now," McMillan said. As for Grow Alabama, he said, "We're very interested in seeing what we might be able to do with that, if it's a viable option."

Spencer said he put a call out on Facebook for unskilled workers on Saturday after hearing that some of his farmers wouldn't have produce for him to sell this week. Jenkins, for example, usually has as many as 35 immigrant workers during the harvest season, but she was down to just herself and her two sons after a judge decided last week to let most of the law go into effect.

"It's a sad state of affairs and it is an emergency for Alabama farmers right now," Spencer said. "Many farmers are threatening to not plant next year."

A job for the jobless

But, he figured, there are people in the inner city who need the work and farmers who just don't have the bodies necessary to finish off the fall harvest. Workers get paid just as the migrants did, earning about $2 a box packed, he said.

Early this week, he took the first volunteers to a sweet potato farm in Cullman just to see how it worked. On Wednesday, a team of five tackled a tomato farm. And on Thursday, about 20 people showed up and sales and marketing manager Malinda St. James, who was answering the phone in the office, said she had pages of names. Participants included recent college students and others who were unemployed.

"The real goal is getting her help in February when the new crops are planted and for the new harvest," said Lisa Hicks of Homewood, who helped sort tomatoes at Jenkins' farm Thursday. "Who's going to be here next year?"

The hard part, Spencer said, has been providing transportation. Grow Alabama rented a van Thursday to transport people and is hoping a church group with transportation might step in to volunteer. He's also looking for organizers to expand the program beyond Birmingham, including to Mobile, Dothan, Montgomery, Tuscaloosa, Gadsden and Huntsville, where he said he's been in talks with the Salvation Army.

He'll likely have requests for help from other farmers, such as Jeff Smith, who also grows tomatoes on Chandler Mountain. He said his farm usually has about 47 people picking tomatoes at peak times, but the workforce dropped about 30 percent when the law was passed and another 30 percent when the court ruling came through.

"It's a huge problem. We're just picking up who we can and getting them in the field," he said. "Next year, if something's not put in place, we'll probably go out of business."

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/10/alabama_immigration_law_farmer.html
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Impossible! Impossible I tell ya! These aren't jobs that American's will do! This must be a fake report, no way could American's do these jobs!
 

tm37

Lifer
Jan 24, 2001
12,436
1
0
Now the local unemployment office local to these farms needs to take the closest people not on a disability, and tell them, report to the farm, there's your new job. Check stops coming end of month.

Chicago did this about 30 years ago asking saying that in order to receive unemployment you had to shovel snow. It got killed in court.

The issue is if I can get $400 a week from the government for staying home why would I go work for $450?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Until welfare is cut back from able body individuals natives will not take those jobs. I say leave the Mexicans, El Salvadorians, etc here. They're the only people who know how to work anymore and pay up to $5000 to coyote gangsters in order to prove it.