Football question - measuring with the chain

[mugs]

It seems to me the accuracy depends on where they put the start of the chain. An inch can be the difference between a first down and no first down. How do they know that they're putting the chain at the right spot with that level of accuracy? And if they can't place the first chain that accurately, what's the point?

 

[Coquito]

The chains are always moved on the sidelines to where the current marker is.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Coquito
The chains are always moved on the sidelines to where the current marker is.

Right, but then they have to run out on the field and pick a spot to start the chain. Do they just just eyeball it from the sideline?

 

[Coquito]

They usually run straight down the line, but your right, it isn't an exact science.

 

[cloude27]

there is a maker on the chain that lines up with hash marks on the field. so they line that up and then pull the chian tight.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: mugs
It seems to me the accuracy depends on where they put the start of the chain. An inch can be the difference between a first down and no first down. How do they know that they're putting the chain at the right spot with that level of accuracy? And if they can't place the first chain that accurately, what's the point?

they don't. they pretend that football is accurate to the inch or closer, but it's really only accurate to about a foot. the spot could be wrong, eyeballing across the field could be wrong, etc etc. most of the inaccuracy is in the spot.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Coquito
They usually run straight down the line, but your right, it isn't an exact science.

Yeah, to me it doesn't seem any more accurate than saying "well it looks like the first down spot was 1 foot past the 31 yard line, and the ball is about 16" past the 41 yard line, so first down." So I'm wondering if they have some way of doing it more accurately with the chains. i.e. if they stuck stuck something in the ground when they spotted the ball on first down. Of course that wouldn't help if the ball was subsequently spotted on the opposite hash mark or between the hash marks.

This is something I've wondered every time I've seen the chains since I was about 10 years old, and there are a lot of people here who know a lot about football.

Maybe the chains are just a sham to let the officiating team off the hook so people can't say they called a first down when it shouldn't have been a first down?

 

[nycxandy]

I agree. It's so pointless. Why move the start and then extend it 10 yards when they can just move the end.

 

[blurredvision]

Originally posted by: cloude27
there is a maker on the chain that lines up with hash marks on the field. so they line that up and then pull the chian tight.

QFT. Pay attention, and you'll see the ref grab the chain somewhere in between at a major yard mark (i.e. 35, 40, 45, etc). The ref will then run to where the ball is with the two guys holding the markers, and place that part of the chain exactly in the middle of the same yard mark. Then, the guy holding the big orange down marker will extend it to see if they made the first down.

The only two things that can mess this process up is if the ref drops the chain, or if someone didn't paint the lines on the field straight enough.

/thread

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: cloude27
there is a maker on the chain that lines up with hash marks on the field. so they line that up and then pull the chian tight.

QFT. Pay attention, and you'll see the ref grab the chain somewhere in between at a major yard mark (i.e. 35, 40, 45, etc). The ref will then run to where the ball is with the two guys holding the markers, and place that part of the chain exactly in the middle of the same yard mark.

The only two things that can mess this process up is if the ref drops the chain, or if someone didn't paint the lines on the field straight enough.

Now THAT makes sense, thanks.

 

[imported_Devine]

Well the Refs tell the guys doing the chain where to put it exactly. You put it at the heel of their shoe and they stand where the ball is, for the most part They use a little clip on thingy that the put on one of the 5 yard lines, ie the 5, 10, 15, 20 whatever line they can find, so when they go out to measure they put that clip on thingy on the line and stretch out both sides and measure. Is it the most accurate? Well no but it gets the job done and they've been doing it for quite awhile. Now this was all at the HS level but I dont see why it would change at the college or NFL level.

 

[SludgeFactory]

Cause it's a dramatic ritual for the TV audience?

 

[dxkj]

Why pick on the part that is only wrong by inches?

How about the spot that is usually off by a foot or more.

 

[Syringer]

Originally posted by: dxkj
Why pick on the part that is only wrong by inches?

How about the spot that is usually off by a foot or more.

I was just about to say this :thumbsup:

 

[eits]

inaccurate as hell... i wish they'd upgrade to some kind of laser grid on the sidelines or something or some kind of teeny tiny gps tracker at the inside tips of footballs.

 

[doze]

Originally posted by: eits
inaccurate as hell... i wish they'd upgrade to some kind of laser grid on the sidelines or something or some kind of teeny tiny gps tracker at the inside tips of footballs.

This type of crap can break in the middle of a game. Not likely that the chain will snap. Also people would claim that the GPS or lasers were tampered with.

 

[herbiehancock]

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: cloude27
there is a maker on the chain that lines up with hash marks on the field. so they line that up and then pull the chian tight.

QFT. Pay attention, and you'll see the ref grab the chain somewhere in between at a major yard mark (i.e. 35, 40, 45, etc). The ref will then run to where the ball is with the two guys holding the markers, and place that part of the chain exactly in the middle of the same yard mark. Then, the guy holding the big orange down marker will extend it to see if they made the first down.

The only two things that can mess this process up is if the ref drops the chain, or if someone didn't paint the lines on the field straight enough.

/thread

Actually, the refs, if you pay VERY close attention and not a cursory glance, pick a link along an EDGE of a major yard line, like the 20, 25, 30, etc. as you mentioned. They use the line EDGE because it is an easily seen demarcation line of white on green or blue, depending upon field. Using the middle of a yard line could lead to a few inches of movement one way or the other.......using an edge puts that chosen link in the same exact position when the ref places it on the field.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: herbiehancock

Originally posted by: blurredvision

Originally posted by: cloude27
there is a maker on the chain that lines up with hash marks on the field. so they line that up and then pull the chian tight.

QFT. Pay attention, and you'll see the ref grab the chain somewhere in between at a major yard mark (i.e. 35, 40, 45, etc). The ref will then run to where the ball is with the two guys holding the markers, and place that part of the chain exactly in the middle of the same yard mark. Then, the guy holding the big orange down marker will extend it to see if they made the first down.

The only two things that can mess this process up is if the ref drops the chain, or if someone didn't paint the lines on the field straight enough.

/thread

Actually, the refs, if you pay VERY close attention and not a cursory glance, pick a link along an EDGE of a major yard line, like the 20, 25, 30, etc. as you mentioned. They use the line EDGE because it is an easily seen demarcation line of white on green or blue, depending upon field. Using the middle of a yard line could lead to a few inches of movement one way or the other.......using an edge puts that chosen link in the same exact position when the ref places it on the field.

And an angular deviation to parallel to the sideline could lead to movement of a few inches one way or another...
And any twist or kink in the chain can lead to movement of a few inches one way or another...
And a bad/good spot can lead to movement of (at least) a few inches one way or another...

In conclusion, football is not nearly as accurate as the use of chains would make you believe

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: doze

Originally posted by: eits
inaccurate as hell... i wish they'd upgrade to some kind of laser grid on the sidelines or something or some kind of teeny tiny gps tracker at the inside tips of footballs.

This type of crap can break in the middle of a game. Not likely that the chain will snap. Also people would claim that the GPS or lasers were tampered with.

just bring in a new ball... big deal.

it's no more likely to break than the replay booth for refs.

 

[Thraxen]

Doesn't matter since both teams are subjected to same method of measurement. It all evens out in the end.

 

[Jeff7]

At least football does stuff like that. My mom watches baseball all the time, and I can't stand that so much of the game is up to the eye of the umpire, which is, all too often, inaccurate. I saw some kind of a camera thing that could watch the ball to see if it was in the strike zone, but that seemed to go away pretty quickly.
I imagine that they could also install impact sensors in the bases to determine who really gets to a base first.
It seems that baseball fans like the inherent inaccuracies though.


So at least your sport strives for some level of accuracy.