Football coach on trial for athlete's death

[spidey07]

For the first time a coach is on trial for the death of one of his athletes. This could set an unusual precedent. The student was on adderail and collapsed on the practice field.

Sports are dangerous and sometimes people get hurt or even die. It's tragic but I don't agree with criminal prosecution.

http://www.wfpl.org/2009/08/31/stinson-trial-underway/

"The Jefferson Circuit Court of former high school football coach Jason Stinson has begun. He?s charged with reckless homicide and wanton endangerment in the heat stroke death of one of his players."

-update-
Not Guilty. Jury took less than 2 hours. Too much defense testimony on Aderal + Creatine. Civil suit is still going on/not started.

 

[CrackRabbit]

While I agree with you that sports can be dangerous. However if the prosecutions accusations of withholding water from players are true he deserves to be convicted of reckless homicide.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
While I agree with you that sports can be dangerous. However if the prosecutions accusations of withholding water from players are true he deserves to be convicted of reckless homicide.

The case has been all over the news here since it happened. There's a whole lot of stories and witnesses about what actually happened.

Also remember this is football, practice is to toughen the kids up. The state even tried to pass legislation (and I think it passed) because of this event. This could cause other states to follow suit depending on the outcome of this case.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Sports are dangerous due to the interaction of the players in the field, not the actions of a coach. Fry the coach for Depraved indifference!

 

[Vette73]

Fifteen year old linebacker Max Gilpin (pictured) collapsed during practice at Pleasure Ridge Park High School on a sweltering August afternoon in 2008.

He died three days later.

Prosecutors contend that Stinson denied his players water and forced them to run extra wind sprints that day because they weren?t practicing hard enough.





Yep coach is in trouble here.

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
While I agree with you that sports can be dangerous. However if the prosecutions accusations of withholding water from players are true he deserves to be convicted of reckless homicide.

If I were a) on medication and b) not feeling well on the field, I would have told the coach to go fuck himself and walked off the field.

People should be conscious of their physical limits and restrictions in life, and choose to live accordingly. It sounds to me like this kid's parents had him all cracked out on pills and pushed him to "be the best" all the way into a grave.

 

[dbk]

I highly doubt the coach denied water to his players...
I never played HS football so maybe I'm wrong...

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: dbk
I highly doubt the coach denied water to his players...
I never played HS football so maybe I'm wrong...

A lot of coaches do things like that, and i did football in HS. Many have lost their jobs and either arrested and/or had the school sued for things like withholding water and doing extra long workouts. There are laws in most states now on how long you are allowed to work kids.

 

[ModerateRepZero]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Sports are dangerous due to the interaction of the players in the field, not the actions of a coach. Fry the coach for Depraved indifference!

If the story is true, what happened is that the player overexerted himself due to the coach's actions, was WITHHELD water/fluids, and also played in humid conditions without much rest and shade.

Now, I used to be an athlete in HS, and even then I knew that a fine line between smart and productive versus stupid and unproductive sports practice involves rest, water/fluids, and limiting your time / strenuous activity in hot or cold conditions.

The coach is at fault if he did indeed withheld water and also failed to modify his practice for someone who appeared to be affected by the heat. Heat stroke is 100% preventable, as someone said.

 

[Fern]

Denying water to players on a hot day to "toughen them up" was done decades ago because people (coaches) didn't know better.

However, the danger of this has been widely known for some time now. Too many NFL players etc have died.

A very sad story, but I believe the coach was criminally negligent (or criminally stupid).

Fern

 

[imported_inspire]

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
While I agree with you that sports can be dangerous. However if the prosecutions accusations of withholding water from players are true he deserves to be convicted of reckless homicide.

If I were a) on medication and b) not feeling well on the field, I would have told the coach to go fuck himself and walked off the field.

People should be conscious of their physical limits and restrictions in life, and choose to live accordingly. It sounds to me like this kid's parents had him all cracked out on pills and pushed him to "be the best" all the way into a grave.

Kids aren't always aware of their limits - they're bodies are constantly changing. Snap judgement, ftl.

 

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
While I agree with you that sports can be dangerous. However if the prosecutions accusations of withholding water from players are true he deserves to be convicted of reckless homicide.

If I were a) on medication and b) not feeling well on the field, I would have told the coach to go fuck himself and walked off the field.

People should be conscious of their physical limits and restrictions in life, and choose to live accordingly. It sounds to me like this kid's parents had him all cracked out on pills and pushed him to "be the best" all the way into a grave.

Easier said than done. There is a lot of pressure to perform from parents, coaches, and, perhaps more importantly, other players.

When I played, I usually played for them (other players). I would imagine if I attempted to walk off the practice field, the coach would punish them as incentive for me to stay. Not sure if I could do it.

However, we were never denied water. If this coach used denial of water as a punishment, he should be punished. I ran plenty of laps and did plenty of sprint drills as punishment, but was never told I couldn't have water.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
While I agree with you that sports can be dangerous. However if the prosecutions accusations of withholding water from players are true he deserves to be convicted of reckless homicide.

If I were a) on medication and b) not feeling well on the field, I would have told the coach to go fuck himself and walked off the field.

People should be conscious of their physical limits and restrictions in life, and choose to live accordingly. It sounds to me like this kid's parents had him all cracked out on pills and pushed him to "be the best" all the way into a grave.

Easier said than done. There is a lot of pressure to perform from parents, coaches, and, perhaps more importantly, other players.

When I played, I usually played for them (other players). I would imagine if I attempted to walk off the practice field, the coach would punish them as incentive for me to stay. Not sure if I could do it.

However, we were never denied water. If this coach used denial of water as a punishment, he should be punished. I ran plenty of laps and did plenty of sprint drills as punishment, but was never told I couldn't have water.

There are plenty of witnesses that say he didn't deny water. I guess it will all come out in the trial.

 

[Vette73]

Here is the rest of the story....

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/...-in-player-death-25856
"Max Gilpin, a 15-year-old player who was one of two players who collapsed during practice last summer."


"Gilpin and a second player collapsed during the practice in which coaches were alleged to have withheld water and continued to run players on a day when the heat index reached 94 degrees. The second player, a senior, spent two days in the hospital.

Both Jefferson County Public Schools and Louisville Metro Police investigated Gilpin?s death after The Courier-Journal reported that bystanders near the practice field heard coaches deny the players water. Other witnesses heard the coaches say they would run the players until someone quit the team."



So another person also passed out.

 

[Pens1566]

If the bit about water is true, coach deserves it.

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: inspire

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
While I agree with you that sports can be dangerous. However if the prosecutions accusations of withholding water from players are true he deserves to be convicted of reckless homicide.

If I were a) on medication and b) not feeling well on the field, I would have told the coach to go fuck himself and walked off the field.

People should be conscious of their physical limits and restrictions in life, and choose to live accordingly. It sounds to me like this kid's parents had him all cracked out on pills and pushed him to "be the best" all the way into a grave.

Kids aren't always aware of their limits - they're bodies are constantly changing. Snap judgement, ftl.

I'm not so sure that you understood the motivation behind my reply.

What is a kid on uppers doing playing football in the heat? Were his parents aware that he was doing strenuous excercise while on this medication?

Why not take up another, less physically demanding sport? The guy was taking meds because he couldn't focus in class, but he (and/or his parents) also wanted to be a sports champ?

In my opinion, the right thing to do would have been for the parents to say, "son, focus on your studies, and don't push yourself with the sports." What upsets me--just to give you my sweeping generalization on things--is that many parents today are out of their minds. Timmy will get that scholarship yet, even if it kills him! Timmy can't focus in class--let's stuff him with pills! The competitiveness has reached a point I personally feel borders on child abuse.

 

[Pens1566]

I think you're overlooking the possibility that even his parents don't know exactly what the medication does, just that the doctor said it will make him "better". The general public is entirely clueless about side effects of all the prescriptions they are taking. Except for 4 hour erections ...

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: BigDH01

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit
While I agree with you that sports can be dangerous. However if the prosecutions accusations of withholding water from players are true he deserves to be convicted of reckless homicide.

If I were a) on medication and b) not feeling well on the field, I would have told the coach to go fuck himself and walked off the field.

People should be conscious of their physical limits and restrictions in life, and choose to live accordingly. It sounds to me like this kid's parents had him all cracked out on pills and pushed him to "be the best" all the way into a grave.

Easier said than done. There is a lot of pressure to perform from parents, coaches, and, perhaps more importantly, other players.

When I played, I usually played for them (other players). I would imagine if I attempted to walk off the practice field, the coach would punish them as incentive for me to stay. Not sure if I could do it.

However, we were never denied water. If this coach used denial of water as a punishment, he should be punished. I ran plenty of laps and did plenty of sprint drills as punishment, but was never told I couldn't have water.

There are plenty of witnesses that say he didn't deny water. I guess it will all come out in the trial.

Yeah that is what a trial is for....which is why your original post is silly To say he shouldn't be prosecuted with the evidence they have is pretty ridiculous. He may be innocent but it seems like there is enough evidence, and obviously there was, for a grand jury to indict.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Here is the rest of the story....

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/...-in-player-death-25856
"Max Gilpin, a 15-year-old player who was one of two players who collapsed during practice last summer."


"Gilpin and a second player collapsed during the practice in which coaches were alleged to have withheld water and continued to run players on a day when the heat index reached 94 degrees. The second player, a senior, spent two days in the hospital.

Both Jefferson County Public Schools and Louisville Metro Police investigated Gilpin?s death after The Courier-Journal reported that bystanders near the practice field heard coaches deny the players water. Other witnesses heard the coaches say they would run the players until someone quit the team."



So another person also passed out.

yeap. they are talking about this all over the news. Seems one of the kids was sick and throwing up. but he was not allowed to go get water or relax.

what amazes me is that people think its ok and toughens up the kids. it really does not. there is no logical reason to deny them water.

some coaches are stuck in methods of the past and they are not working.

 

[Balt]

It's really going to depend on the degree to which they were denied water, which isn't stated in the article. A coach can't allow players to just run off the field whenever they get thirsty, even in practice. He also has to know their limits, though, since they are minors who are under his supervision. I do remember one time during my JH football days when an anonymous parent complained to the principal of the school (rather than the coach) that her son wasn't getting enough water breaks during practice, which was BS.

So without more information it's really hard to know how negligent (if at all) this coach was.

 

[waggy]

yeah damn them parents complaining because the kids aren't getting enough water on hot days..

 

[Balt]

Originally posted by: waggy
yeah damn them parents complaining because the kids aren't getting enough water on hot days..

I was on the same team as the kid whose parent complained, and I assure you we were getting enough water breaks. Maybe not as many water breaks as HE wanted, but there were enough. A JH or varsity football program that lets parents dictate what goes on at practices or in the game is a program that gets its ass kicked every Friday night. If a parent can't handle their child feeling a little discomfort, then frankly they shouldn't let them play at all. We also had one parent who yanked their child out of football practice only because it was raining (with no lightning, mind you). When parents do that to their children they aren't helping them, they are doing them a disservice. His tyrant of a mother completely embarrassed him in front of the entire team.

It's also important to note that regardless of how much water you drink at practice, the fact is you must constantly hydrate OFF the field as well. If you are practicing in a high heat and high humidity area, you are never going to replace all the water during practice that you are losing.

Like I said, I can't make any claims on this particular case because the information simply isn't in the article, but it seems wrong to accuse the coach of being negligent without knowing the facts. Random deaths do occur, even in child sports. People can't be protected from everything.

 

[ModerateRepZero]

People can't be protected from everything.

It's not hard at all to prevent someone from dying of heat stroke. Either you make sure they're hydrated to replenish fluids and/or you don't overwork them in hot temperatures and under (direct) sunlight.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you cannot do the same punishing routine without rest and/or fluid replenishment in both an air-conditioned/room temperature environment versus the hot outdoors.

 

[Kirby]

I assume the coach knew he was taking medication?

 

[zerocool84]

Pshh I remember football practice in 200 degree heat doing windsprints uphill bothways with full gear on and not being allowed to drink water for 3 days straight.


In all seriousness though I always remember coaches saying that we'd get water as soon as we finished whatever drill we were doing and of course if we did something wrong we had to do up-downs or windsprints even more and we'd get water after that. Ehh seemed pretty normal to me.