• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Food Stamp / Welfware Reform

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
I have never heard that idea before, but i like it. I would create Welfare Grocery Stores. It has the basics and you get to spend your foodstamps etc there. But they only take food stamps as to not be government sponcered competition for regular grocery stores.

As well as job training. I'd put some kind of hard cap on how often/long you can be on welfare. Maybe 2 years out of every 10 or something. May fall into hardship later in life etc again.

Plus id have manditory birth control for women so they cant become baby factories while receiving government aid.

Basically id have it keep you alive with the bare minimum so you will want to get off of welfare.

As far as housing go. Maybe scrap section 8 housing and just have government owned apartments etc. No money goes into the welfare recipients hands. They get free room and board, food via food stamps, and job training.

But along with all the above another issue would be actually creating jobs in this country for more low skilled labor to do. Manufacturing needs to come back in a big way from China etc.

No sense in traning people to do jobs that dont exist or are far and few between.
Government controlled housing could replace section 8.

Build a complex in every town?
Have you seen some of the government run housing authority projects.
Many turn into ghettos quickly - there is no incentive to take care of the property.
 

MooseNSquirrel

Platinum Member
Feb 26, 2009
2,566
295
126
Being a single mother is largely inconsistent with reality. The problem is that liberals were the ones that normalized divorce and unwed motherhood. You cannot create a problem and then complain about it :\
Huh? Thats quite the armchair socialogist your playing there.

Is there a study showing this?

Of course not, but hey, lets not let reality get in the way of deeply held beliefs.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
Thats pathetic.

And this has nothing to do with the health insurance mandate, but nice try!
Well how is the government suppose to enforce that? How does that government enforce any laws?

Huh? Thats quite the armchair socialogist your playing there.

Is there a study showing this?

Of course not, but hey, lets not let reality get in the way of deeply held beliefs.
Are you suggesting that it was conservatives who normalized divorce and out of wedlock childbirth?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
Two parent household can support a child but one can not. so if one parent leaves, then who suffers.
you have a child entering school and you are going to penalize the child.
So you dont allow the parent to leave. And if they do you hunt them down and make them pay.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
So you dont allow the parent to leave. And if they do you hunt them down and make them pay.
This is a free country. How do you hunt them down? Bounty?
How to make them pay? Grab the paycheck; You first have to find out where they are working and go through the courts. 6 months minimum. Then the moment the garnish hits; they change jobs.

If the government stepped into control the family system; it would end up similar to China. Keep the deserting parent tied down and you start having spousal abuse issues and children are hurt emotionally and physically.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
This is a free country. How do you hunt them down? Bounty?
How to make them pay? Grab the paycheck; You first have to find out where they are working and go through the courts. 6 months minimum. Then the moment the garnish hits; they change jobs.

If the government stepped into control the family system; it would end up similar to China. Keep the deserting parent tied down and you start having spousal abuse issues and children are hurt emotionally and physically.
Why not a bounty? Why should it take 6 months minimum? It doesnt take 6 months for the government to start taking taxes out.

And doesnt taking my money to pay for other people's children kinda undermine the idea of a free country?

Well maybe China has the right idea then. Since liberals destroyed social control of the family system it seems like the government has to step in.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,936
1
0
Are you suggesting that it was conservatives who normalized divorce and out of wedlock childbirth?
Newt Gingrich has certainly done his best to normalize divorce and serial adultery. Even Saint Ronald Reagan had an ex-wife in his past.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
Newt Gingrich has certainly done his best to normalize divorce and serial adultery. Even Saint Ronald Reagan had an ex-wife in his past.
Well according to Barack Obama, Reagan was a socialist... this is just more proof that even the Republican Party is infected with liberalism.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,630
181
106
Right, that's what I meant about penalizing them. The reality is it's easier for government to let them spend it how they please. It's not worth the punishment factor.


How would that work at checkout counters? That would require imposing some sort of database system on supermarkets and then forcing the supermarkets to enforce it. Again, not a very business-friendly thing to do.

It really isn't that big of a deal to let people drink soda. It's not the healthiest but it does provide nutrition.
That would be easy, use the same checkout system that collects taxes on soda and none on milk.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,021
9
81
LOL. Democrats.
What is wrong with my plan, under my plan a single mother of 2 kids making minimum wage would get

15,000 a year in cash and 3000-5000 a year in food stamps to help supplement her very low paying job. This would bring her into a middle class standard of living. It would end income disparity in our country. Take 3 Trillion from the rich and redistribute it the rest of society will do a great deal of good.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
What is wrong with my plan, under my plan a single mother of 2 kids making minimum wage would get

15,000 a year in cash and 3000-5000 a year in food stamps to help supplement her very low paying job. This would bring her into a middle class standard of living. It would end income disparity in our country. Take 3 Trillion from the rich and redistribute it the rest of society will do a great deal of good.
There used to be a word for a person that a supported a woman and her kids. It was called a husband.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,353
1
81
Why? The conservatives want to cut benefits to the poor to fund military expansionism. Why not just send the military in to kill the poor. Maybe we could arm the poor, so the complex could make money from both sides.
As long as you want to take my money and use it to help someone else, you'd better use it to help them. Allowing them to buy Twinkies feeds their self-hate, leading to diabetes and lots of other fun things that are the natural result of your beneficent philosophy. These inevitable outcomes simply result in taking more of my money to keep them down. I'll ask the question for the fourth time: do you leave your doors unlocked so these poor, downtrodden souls can share everything you have?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
What is wrong with my plan, under my plan a single mother of 2 kids making minimum wage would get

15,000 a year in cash and 3000-5000 a year in food stamps to help supplement her very low paying job. This would bring her into a middle class standard of living. It would end income disparity in our country. Take 3 Trillion from the rich and redistribute it the rest of society will do a great deal of good.
The rich don't earn 3 trillion per year. You are incredibly naive.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,212
126
It's fun to bash the poor. Pretend they live high on the hog. Truth is most of the poor on stamps are stuck with no hope. A single mother with a child can hardly work and raise the child. If she works, she loses her assistance PLUS add in the cost for day care ( that btw states have been cutting to the bone). Add in the cost if transportation not only for mom working, but getting the kid to and from daycare and on the daycare providers schedule. Mom works till 6, daycare closes at 5. Check mate?
Or consider today where so many retired grandparents living on SS also have a grandchild living with them in the home. A child that requires a lot of expense to raise. Especially for seniors on a fixed income barely able to scrape by month to month. Many in that situation now qualify for stamps.
It's fun to just assume people on food stamps are working the system. Making a killing. Taking your tax money. Living high on the hog with not a worry. It's easy to pretend anyone on stamps or government assistance have "options" available. Fact is, few have "options", nor a way out of poverty.
What they eat is not the issue, the issue is how they can afford to eat at all in the first place.
$200 Worth of food stamps for one month for the grandparents and a grandchild doesn't last that long. Certainly not till the end of the month.
People find it impossible to conceive there are Americans actually starving.
They all must be "working" the system and living high on tax payer handouts.
So just pull their plug. Solves the problem. Right?
Then the single mom has another child and another. Unlimited free breeding with incentives to do so, not have a job other than have children. No education and a multigenerational underclass with the "you owe me mentality". Thats special.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,324
126
Government controlled housing could replace section 8.

Build a complex in every town?
Have you seen some of the government run housing authority projects.
Many turn into ghettos quickly - there is no incentive to take care of the property.
Section 8 tenants have no incentive to take care of the property either. I have seen blocks with maybe 1/8 of the houses section 8 but the entire blocks property value plummeted due to the way the section 8s kept up the houses. Thats gotta be a pretty big kick to the nuts to be paying your neighbors rent via taxes and then have them cost you even more money by lowering your homes value. I have also seen section 8 folks have the best kept house/lawn on the block.

The reason most people like housing projects (regardless if they admit it), even though they turn into slums, is it keeps the poor people over "there" and out of sight and relatively out of sight.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,183
60
91
Why should the government pay women to have babies?

Uncle Sam Got Me Preagnant!

Are people government Hores?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
Why should the government pay women to have babies?

Uncle Sam Got Me Preagnant!

Are people government Hores?
Stop insulting whores. If they were government whores they would have to provide "services" to taxpayers in order to get their food stamps/welfare.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,324
126
Then the single mom has another child and another. Unlimited free breeding with incentives to do so, not have a job other than have children. No education and a multigenerational underclass with the "you owe me mentality". Thats special.
And that is the elephant in the room that the left doesn't want to talk about, not that the rights "fuck em all" attitude is much better.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,880
4,212
126
And that is the elephant in the room that the left doesn't want to talk about, not that the rights "fuck em all" attitude is much better.
I agree that there is a strong tendency by both as you say. Personally I am against eliminating aid when needed, but not this system. Enslavement takes many forms, some well intentioned. Being properly sympathetic and rational are not mutually exclusive.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,164
0
0
And that is the elephant in the room that the left doesn't want to talk about, not that the rights "fuck em all" attitude is much better.
I'm not against bringing it up at all. I think it should be discussed head on, because it is real. The problem, however, is at least twofold. First, we don't know the extent of the problem. We know that some people who take welfare fit that mold and others do not. If we throw it out, both groups are affected. Second, it's pretty clear to me that our economy will not support full employment. Hence, there will always be millions out of work. If the "lazy" people on welfare were to suddenly become un-lazy, they will try hard to get work and either 1) not find it, or 2) find it but simply displace others into unemployment. Since that is the case, it doesn't concern me that much that some of them are lazy. Laziness only bothers me if there are jobs out there for the taking that aren't being filled.

The only problem I see is that we don't want to encourage the lazy to have more kids. I just don't see anything we can do about that though, short of forced sterilization. If we say they can't get more benefits for more kids, then we are either letting the kids starve, or putting them on to some other form of state support (i.e. foster care, state institutions, etc.)

- wolf
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,733
3,560
126
As long as you want to take my money and use it to help someone else, you'd better use it to help them. Allowing them to buy Twinkies feeds their self-hate, leading to diabetes and lots of other fun things that are the natural result of your beneficent philosophy. These inevitable outcomes simply result in taking more of my money to keep them down. I'll ask the question for the fourth time: do you leave your doors unlocked so these poor, downtrodden souls can share everything you have?
Ah, my doors, so that was the question. Here at my institution the doors are always locked so I don't escape. The doctors sneak in from time to time to try to steal my insanity, but they always catch me hiding in the shower under mountains of suds from my bubble bath, and they always ask the same question. Moonbeam why are you hiding here, and I always tell them if for the shame I feel in having nothing of value to steal. Once somebody stole my other pair of underwear and I chased after them to see if I could give them the moon. I own it, as you can imagine, but I can't seem to give it away.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
Ah, my doors, so that was the question. Here at my institution the doors are always locked so I don't escape. The doctors sneak in from time to time to try to steal my insanity, but they always catch me hiding in the shower under mountains of suds from my bubble bath, and they always ask the same question. Moonbeam why are you hiding here, and I always tell them if for the shame I feel in having nothing of value to steal. Once somebody stole my other pair of underwear and I chased after them to see if I could give them the moon. I own it, as you can imagine, but I can't seem to give it away.
In other words no, you keep your doors locked because you're selfish and greedy and don't want to share your wealth. You sound like a Republican.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,353
1
81
Ah, my doors, so that was the question. Here at my institution the doors are always locked so I don't escape. The doctors sneak in from time to time to try to steal my insanity, but they always catch me hiding in the shower under mountains of suds from my bubble bath, and they always ask the same question. Moonbeam why are you hiding here, and I always tell them if for the shame I feel in having nothing of value to steal. Once somebody stole my other pair of underwear and I chased after them to see if I could give them the moon. I own it, as you can imagine, but I can't seem to give it away.
So you don't wander the streets during the day looking for transients to feed, clothe, and house? How... inconsistent of you.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY