Followup: LED replacement bulbs . . . .

[BonzaiDuck]

I'm glad I know people with more experience in electronics.

HEre's the problem with adding LED replacements to an older car that wasn't made with that technology in mind.

My signal flashers use an 1157 incandescent bulb, and there is an 1157 LED replacement. I swapped these into the car, as well as the sidemarker and parking lamp bulbs (1156 and a smaller bulb -- maybe 168?). Testing the signals, I was stunned that the light and the dashboard indicator cycle twice as fast with the LED. So I spoke to my friend about it.

Apparently, this is in the nature of the LED 1157 bulb and its interaction with the flasher module in the car. It is possible that this will wear out the flasher module and even the dashboard indicator "<- , ->" lamp. And on a 24-year-old car, one doesn't need to be searching around for the replacement items, or one would only hope you could find them.

So -- bulbs that stay on -- sidemarker and parking -- fine -- there wouldn't be any problem with an LED replacement. For the flashers -- no. And I'm re-thinking the idea of replacing Halogen headlight bulbs with LED, expecting more similar complications. You need an old car to keep running. You don't need it to be the brightest light on the highway.

A PARTING THOUGHT: This problem with the turn signals deploying an LED light might be resolved by replacing the flasher unit with a compatible but upgraded model. Rock Auto offers one for my car which is touted to handle both LED and incandescent turn-signal bulbs. It's about $8.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" rings in my head when I think about the possibility.
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ORIGINAL POST
So here I go again. I've been a forum member for years, but only started posting at "Garage" during the last couple months. I am a member of a cult -- the cult of "Trooper". It HAS to be a cult, when its enthusiast forum has a February post from somebody who just bought a 1986 Trooper for $1,000, wanting to know about sources for reman and OEM parts. Nineteen-eighty-six?!!??

I won't go over the particulars of my OCD fetish. I'll spend another $1,000 this year -- diagnose and repair the Anti-Theft System, add a Calmini grill-guard -- the spark-plugs were just a timely swap-out and minor maintenance. Meanwhile, fretting over tail-light lenses that were broken or had stripped threads for the screws, I got the idea that I'd replace all the sidemarker/brake/parking/signal lights with LED upgrades. The headlights can wait: replacement LEDs I might prefer run about $120. But even the LED side lights are about $20/pair.

I went down to O'Reilly's and Autozone to pick up the replacement LEDs for the old filament 1156 and 1157 bulbs. I need three sets of 1156 white bulbs -- one front, two in the rear. And I need one set of white 1157's (rear) and a set of yellow/amber (front). So I'm collecting my purchases. I don't like fiddling with the lenses too much. These are old parts, and rendering the screw-mounts useless means some jerry-rig of spit, bailing wire or Pit-Crew Auto Adhesive. Fiddling leads to damage.

I noticed the packages on the LED bulbs I've acquired so far -- keeping in mind that the parts-store clerk carefully checked his computer to make sure I had the right replacements. The packages read "For Off Road Use Only". What does this mean?! I'm only replacing the side-marker, parking and signal bulbs!

 

[LTC8K6]

I haven't heard anything good about those 12V LED bulbs.

I wouldn't use them.

 

[NutBucket]

IMHO they're fine as long as you buy a name brand like Philips. I'm not sure why but I had trouble finding yellow 1156 bulbs from a reputable company.

 

[mindless1]

First of all, LED bulbs that aren't factory, in the original bulb locations (replacing them) are seldom really an upgrade.

The quality brands tend to cost a lot for what they are and produce less light than the factory bulb, despite well-wishers claiming they are brighter (when they really mean produce more glare due to the colder color).

The lower quality brands tend to push the LEDs as hard as possible to make them brighter per dollar and end up having far worse lifespan than the incan bulbs they're replacing, yet usually still not as bright. LED bulbs produce much less heat but are far far more susceptible to heat damage.

As far as them being for off-road use only, they probably just put that there to cover their behinds. If you are not altering the color of your marker lights, not adding a new color to any side of the vehicle they should be legal as long as not casting a blinding light into other vehicles on the road, but too dim could be considered ineffective and less safe. I would ask about the store's return policy and make sure they are bright enough.

The not for public road use statement is most applicable to add-on lights in their own housings and LED headlight replacements for incandescent housings where the beam pattern is too bright towards the other lane, or the color is too far off white. Ironically some manufacturers go the opposite route and tell blatant lies like "DOT approved" and other kinds of official sounding verbage when none of that is true. "Most" bulbs can be road legal in the right situation (except LED retrofits in incan headlight housings which almost never are!) but DOT is not ordering these and trying them in every vehicle and approving on a vehicle by vehicle and year by year basis which would be necessary. DOT simply Does Not Do That.

No agency approves these LED lights, but at the same time they don't outright outlaw them either. It's not possible to do because it's the combination of the light, reflector, and lens that determines the outcome on a vehicle by vehicle basis.

To cut to the chase you probably won't have any legal issues as long as they aren't headlight reftrofits or are not much brighter than the stock bulbs if they are, and then aimed further down and to the right so no additional light goes into the opposite lane or rearview mirrors of vehicles in front of you. That is, unless you get bright generics that fail, which depending on which bulbs may get you a ticket. Sometimes it's even something silly like a license plate bulb.

For maximum light output you do want to pick a bulb the same color as the lens it's shining through, not white if the lens isn't clear or white, though in the case of yellow lenses, if you use warm white bulbs you lose less than a cold white shining through a red lens, but of course this is in an "all else equal" scenario which is seldom the case.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Thanks for the comment -- mindless1, NutBucket and LTC8K6.

As I said, I'm giving the old Trooper a make-over, and the replacement of lights is a minor sidestep. I have assumed two things: the LED replacements use less power (some touted as 35% less) and they last longer. Mindless1 offers useful insight to this, but I'm going to give it a try and see if my failing 71-year-old eyes (still 20-20, tho!) can judge a difference that will allow me to leave the LEDs installed.

All of the replacement LEDs I've acquired so far are Sylvania or Sylvania ZEVOs, although the one set of amber 1157s coming from Amazon on Tuesday are "Antline".

I figure that once I've refurbished the lenses and bulbs, solved a tiny transmission leak, repaired the anti-theft system (if possible -- for available parts) and added the 50-lb grill guard that arrived yesterday -- next year's Isuzu budget will mostly cover an oil change.

I'm still debating whether to try LED replacements for the Halogen Hi-Lo-beam headlights. I suppose for $55, I could try these bad boys from Amazon. But like mindless1 said, there are issues with brands and promised lumens.

One has to keep in mind the old adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". But at least I'll have some spare bulbs in a pinch!

UPDATE: See the originating post, which has been updated.