focus electric $40K

[ElFenix]

http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/02/autos/ford_focus_electric_price/index.htm?iid=Popular

wonder how the standard equipment list compares the focus titanium

 

[Doppel]

Not surprising, but certainly disappointing. ~Same range as the Volt but $5k more. I doubt they've fed it with features to bump that price, probably the last thing on Ford's mind was making a Focus cost even more than it had to.

The Tesla S is impressive, also mentioned in that link. If Tesla can actually sell it for $57k (before $7500) for the base model with 160 miles real-world range, large car with a great deal of capacity and a sub-6 0-60 it's going to sell like mad.

 

[halik]

Or you can buy 2.5 regular focii....

 

[halik]

Also

Ford's spin? Focus electric is pricier because it comes better equipped than the rest. The model comes with automatic headlights, a 10-speaker Sony stereo, dual-zone automatic climate control, MyFord Touch, navigation, an 8-inch touch-screen display, backup camera, rear parking sensor, leather-wrapped steering wheel, passive entry system and push-button start

That's whooping $600 in material costs for them.

 

[vi edit]

Or you can buy 2.5 regular focii....

Or one Focus and about about 230,000 miles worth of highway miles in gasoline.

 

[Squisher]

The Tesla S is impressive, also mentioned in that link. If Tesla can actually sell it for $57k (before $7500) for the base model with 160 miles real-world range, large car with a great deal of capacity and a sub-6 0-60 it's going to sell like mad.

Define, sell like mad. Right now they're saying they might be able to produce 2000 units a year for world wide distribution, we'll see. Has anyone seen a production version of the car? It won't sell if it leaves a trail of nuts and bolts in its wake.
It is one thing to become a carmaker that assembles 300 hand made vehicles a year and another to at least gain a foot hold with 5,000 coming off a production line.

 

[Pulsar]

Not surprising, but certainly disappointing. ~Same range as the Volt but $5k more. I doubt they've fed it with features to bump that price, probably the last thing on Ford's mind was making a Focus cost even more than it had to.

The Tesla S is impressive, also mentioned in that link. If Tesla can actually sell it for $57k (before $7500) for the base model with 160 miles real-world range, large car with a great deal of capacity and a sub-6 0-60 it's going to sell like mad.

It's $5k more than Leaf, with competitive range. At least, I think that's what you meant to say.

It's pretty clear Nissan is pushing pretty hard with the Leaf, and is selling it at a pretty sizeable loss to generate business.

Ford, on the other hand, much like the hybrid fusion, escape, etc is probably pricing them at break even or even a profit: that's Ford's new mantra after all. Charge what it takes to make the car. I'm sure Ford's development costs were far less than the Volt or Leaf - Ford took a vehicle that was already built as a starting point.

Tesla selling like mad? A $60K car? Seriously? If you're going to criticize cars with a $40k price tag, how far outside most people's cost envelope is a $60k car.... if it IS $60k. We still haven't seen the first production vehicle, and Tesla is skating on very thin ice and can't afford to sell them at a loss.

 

[Doppel]

Tesla and Ford have different markets. If you want I can caveat with sell like mad "for a $60k electric car". So far on paper the Tesla S is $17k more than a Ford Focus Electric, with maybe 50% more range, larger, faster, looks better, more luxurious.

The focus will have the same problem the Leaf and Chevy have: you're asking wealthy buyers (as average income for buyers of the Leaf and Volt is well over $100k) to spend a substantial amount of money on a car that is, other than its powertrain, an econobox. The Tesla doesn't ask that of its buyers. It delivers a luxury experience. The only compromise the wealthy buyer makes is range and nothing else. With the Leaf, Focus electric, etc. they've just paid through the nose for an econobox that also has range issues.

 

[homercles337]

Emissions. Emissions people.

 

[mmntech]

At that price, I still have to recommend the Prius if you're that hell bent on an eco-car. At least it's not as gay looking as it used to be. More of a station wagon now. Or you could go all out and get a Lexus HS 250h, or a vanilla gas Lexus ES. A Focus is still an econobox.

Electric cars won't succeed anytime soon for two reasons. Cost and convenience. Savings through electric fuel are negated by high initial cost to buy. That's assuming electricity prices stay as they are. The nuclear bogey man after Fukoshima is driving countries to adopt fossil fuel and renewable energy, which aren't nearly as efficient as nuclear power. Renewable energy alone is extremely costly and inefficient, yet is the power plant de jour. Thus driving costs of electricity up. The grid as is can't replace gasoline.

Plus, you can get a lot more car for the same amount of money, as I already mentioned.

They also aren't convenient because of limited range and long refuelling times. It's not as flexible as a gas or diesel car. The Leaf can travel up to 222km on a single charge. It can range from that to just 76km in heavy traffic. A Civic or Elantra can go up to 600km on a single tank. I'm averaging about 650km in my 05 Civic. Gas cars also aren't effected by cold weather conditions.

In the nearly three years I've worked in the car rental industry, I've only had one customer specifically request a hybrid. There's no demand for these cars beyond PC Hollywood.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Tesla and Ford have different markets. If you want I can caveat with sell like mad "for a $60k electric car". So far on paper the Tesla S is $17k more than a Ford Focus Electric, with maybe 50% more range, larger, faster, looks better, more luxurious.

The focus will have the same problem the Leaf and Chevy have: you're asking wealthy buyers (as average income for buyers of the Leaf and Volt is well over $100k) to spend a substantial amount of money on a car that is, other than its powertrain, an econobox. The Tesla doesn't ask that of its buyers. It delivers a luxury experience. The only compromise the wealthy buyer makes is range and nothing else. With the Leaf, Focus electric, etc. they've just paid through the nose for an econobox that also has range issues.

I've seen quite a few Nissan Leafs on the roads around here. I'd love to drive one to and from work every day. Trouble is, my commute is 60 miles round trip so I would really be pushing the range limit on a daily basis.

 

[LTC8K6]

They all basically cost way too much when compared to similar conventional cars. The only people who can buy them are folks who have money to waste. Why pay that much when right on the same lot are similar cars for much less money? Cars like the Cruze and Focus get pretty good mileage, making the economic comparison to their electric cousins stand out even more.

Same for the Tesla S. It's only going to sell to people who can afford to waste money, and people who just gotta have one at any cost.

A Focus electric would suit me just about perfectly, and I can afford one. It will be very hard to buy one knowing I can probably buy a Titanium and a spare base model for the price of one Electric model...

 

[theeedude]

Also

That's whooping $600 in material costs for them.

Employees and suppliers developing these features also have to be paid, as well as return to shareholders bankrolling the development. Low uptake features are more expensive, since that cost has to be amortized over a smaller volume.
Material cost is immaterial 🙂

 

[JulesMaximus]

They all basically cost way too much when compared to similar conventional cars. The only people who can buy them are folks who have money to waste. Why pay that much when right on the same lot are similar cars for much less money? Cars like the Cruze and Focus get pretty good mileage, making the economic comparison to their electric cousins stand out even more.

Same for the Tesla S. It's only going to sell to people who can afford to waste money, and people who just gotta have one at any cost.

A Focus electric would suit me just about perfectly, and I can afford one. It will be very hard to buy one knowing I can probably buy a Titanium and a spare base model for the price of one Electric model...

Nissan Leaf costs what? $35k? Add in the federal and state incentives and you knock almost $10,000 off that. Then you factor in fuel savings and it starts to look quite attractive actually.

 

[theeedude]

They all basically cost way too much when compared to similar conventional cars. The only people who can buy them are folks who have money to waste. Why pay that much when right on the same lot are similar cars for much less money? Cars like the Cruze and Focus get pretty good mileage, making the economic comparison to their electric cousins stand out even more.

Same for the Tesla S. It's only going to sell to people who can afford to waste money, and people who just gotta have one at any cost.

A Focus electric would suit me just about perfectly, and I can afford one. It will be very hard to buy one knowing I can probably buy a Titanium and a spare base model for the price of one Electric model...

Model S actually makes sense in the Bay Area, because it has the range to go from San Francisco to Silicon Valley and back. A lot of well off people have that commute and are willing to pay for access to the carpool lane that electric vehicles are given. That may save them an hour a day. The problem with this Focus and Leaf is that they only have 75 mile range, so one would have to have access to a charging station at work to make it back, which is not always practical. I think at $40K, you are at a price point that people would rather stretch a little and buy a Tesla.

 

[Doppel]

I've seen quite a few Nissan Leafs on the roads around here. I'd love to drive one to and from work every day. Trouble is, my commute is 60 miles round trip so I would really be pushing the range limit on a daily basis.

Also, Nissan says the battery is expected to last 5-10 years and its 8 year warranty doesn't cover expected, gradual reduction in range as is expected with batteries. I believe they don't even want you doing a full charge all the time, which is necessary for the 73 mile range.

Basically what I'm saying is, even if you knew you'd never drive 60 miles, it won't be long with that Leaf before it literally wouldn't even let you complete the journey at all. Degeneration on these batteries is just one of the problems!

 

[LTC8K6]

Model S actually makes sense in the Bay Area, because it has the range to go from San Francisco to Silicon Valley and back. A lot of well off people have that commute and are willing to pay for access to the carpool lane that electric vehicles are given. That may save them an hour a day. The problem with this Focus and Leaf is that they only have 75 mile range, so one would have to have access to a charging station at work to make it back, which is not always practical. I think at $40K, you are at a price point that people would rather stretch a little and buy a Tesla.

I would think Silicon Valley companies would likely have charging stations. The whole bay area made a major commitment to support electric vehicles including making charging station free for a couple years.

Buyers of the Focus and Leaf would likely know if their routes have charging stations, though.

No one is going to want to charge at home if they can charge for "free" at a public station. Buyers will certainly be thinking about where and when they can charge the car.

 

[LTC8K6]

Also, Nissan says the battery is expected to last 5-10 years and its 8 year warranty doesn't cover expected, gradual reduction in range as is expected with batteries. I believe they don't even want you doing a full charge all the time, which is necessary for the 73 mile range.

Basically what I'm saying is, even if you knew you'd never drive 60 miles, it won't be long with that Leaf before it literally wouldn't even let you complete the journey at all. Degeneration on these batteries is just one of the problems!

They all tout "fast charging", but barely mention that this shortens battery life. Nissan is one of the few that makes it clear.

 

[ultimatebob]

Better yet, why don't I just buy a regular Ford Focus and spend the remaining $21,000 I saved on enough gasoline to drive over 200,000 miles.

 

[halik]

Employees and suppliers developing these features also have to be paid, as well as return to shareholders bankrolling the development. Low uptake features are more expensive, since that cost has to be amortized over a smaller volume.
Material cost is immaterial 🙂

I meant that would be $600 total material costs - RD, tooling,whatever all baked in. Family member works on that program for Ford; margins on options are ridiculous.

 

[halik]

Model S actually makes sense in the Bay Area, because it has the range to go from San Francisco to Silicon Valley and back. A lot of well off people have that commute and are willing to pay for access to the carpool lane that electric vehicles are given. That may save them an hour a day. The problem with this Focus and Leaf is that they only have 75 mile range, so one would have to have access to a charging station at work to make it back, which is not always practical. I think at $40K, you are at a price point that people would rather stretch a little and buy a Tesla.

This. Plus you don't have to deal with battery performance under adverse weather. If I was in the market for lux commuter in that area, electric would be on my shopping lists. Didn't HOV lane stickers essentially double the price of all used hybrids?

 

[Drako]

Better yet, why don't I just buy a regular Ford Focus and spend the remaining $21,000 I saved on enough gasoline to drive over 200,000 miles.

It's actually even a bit more than that. People never seem to take into account the electricity cost for recharging an electric car.

Granted, it's about 1/4 the cost of $4/gal gas for a 30mpg car, but it still is a cost.

 

[Doppel]

It's actually even a bit more than that. People never seem to take into account the electricity cost for recharging an electric car.

Granted, it's about 1/4 the cost of $4/gal gas for a 30mpg car, but it still is a cost.

Bolded for true. Running these things in the winter can greatly decrease their range. The volt and leaf both are challenged to maintain cabin comfort when temps get low and the heater sucks a lot of juice.