Flynn not ready to be sentenced. Uh oh.

[Hayabusa Rider]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/402861-flynn-sentencing-hearing-delayed

Trump? Think Pence. There's a good deal that might withstand the light of day and it's possible we might have both President and VP removed from office before this is all over.

 

[Jhhnn]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/402861-flynn-sentencing-hearing-delayed

Trump? Think Pence. There's a good deal that might withstand the light of day and it's possible we might have both President and VP removed from office before this is all over.

In that case we should hold off until there's a new Speaker of the House...

 

[Maxima1]

In that case we should hold off until there's a new Speaker of the House...

The problem with that is a constitutional issue whether the Speaker should be in the line of succession. Bush v. Gore all over again.

http://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/fss_papers/991/

Is the Presidential Succession Law Constitutional?

Abstract
Since the November 1994 election, Speaker Newt Gingrich has sparked controversy with remarks on a broad range of political and social issues. But one thing that he has said over and over-that he, as Speaker of the House of Representatives, is second in the succession line for the Presidency-has been accepted matter-of-factly by admirer and detractor alike. On the surface, Gingrich's claim that he is two heartbeats away from the Oval Office is completely consistent with current law. The federal succession statute clearly assigns the powers and duties of the Presidency to the Speaker of the House "f, by reason of death, resignation, removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify, there is neither a President nor Vice President." But serious questions lurk at a deeper level-questions about the constitutionality of the succession statute itself. In this essay, we conclude that the best reading of the Constitution's text, history, and structure excludes federal legislators from the line of presidential succession. Our most important reasoning is structural: If legislators are in line to fill a vacant Oval Office, a pervasive conflict of interest will warp their judicial roles in presidential and vice-presidential impeachment proceedings; and similar pressures will tempt lawmakers to betray our Constitution's careful rejection of a Parliamentary/Prime Minister Model of presidential selection.

 

[UglyCasanova]

This has been a pretty bad day for Trump

 

[Jhhnn]

The problem with that is a constitutional issue whether the Speaker should be in the line of succession. Bush v. Gore all over again.

http://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/fss_papers/991/

Is the Presidential Succession Law Constitutional?

Abstract
Since the November 1994 election, Speaker Newt Gingrich has sparked controversy with remarks on a broad range of political and social issues. But one thing that he has said over and over-that he, as Speaker of the House of Representatives, is second in the succession line for the Presidency-has been accepted matter-of-factly by admirer and detractor alike. On the surface, Gingrich's claim that he is two heartbeats away from the Oval Office is completely consistent with current law. The federal succession statute clearly assigns the powers and duties of the Presidency to the Speaker of the House "f, by reason of death, resignation, removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify, there is neither a President nor Vice President." But serious questions lurk at a deeper level-questions about the constitutionality of the succession statute itself. In this essay, we conclude that the best reading of the Constitution's text, history, and structure excludes federal legislators from the line of presidential succession. Our most important reasoning is structural: If legislators are in line to fill a vacant Oval Office, a pervasive conflict of interest will warp their judicial roles in presidential and vice-presidential impeachment proceedings; and similar pressures will tempt lawmakers to betray our Constitution's careful rejection of a Parliamentary/Prime Minister Model of presidential selection.

Dream on. The SCOTUS wouldn't touch that proposition with a pole.

 

[cytg111]

Arh... it keeps on going..I wonder if all this is goimg to impact midterm?Heeeheheeheh

 

[trenchfoot]

With Trump's associates being convicted and/or turned one after the other, it seems logical that working up the chain of command will have to include the principal players ie Trump and his family members.

It's only a matter of time. That so many of Trump's operatives are proven crooks, it's not very hard to see Trump and his family members in the same light. Given that evidence uncovered in the Manafort and Cohen trials and the cooperative deals provided by Flynn, Papadopolis, et al, Trump and his family members have been positively implicated and/or have been caught lying to federal investigators on numerous occasions.

With this in mind, I can't see Trump and his two sons escaping/evading culpability in one way or another.

They're ripe for the plucking and they all know it.

Again, it's just a matter of time for them to get their comeuppance.

 

[ch33zw1z]

This has been a pretty bad day for Trump

Fake news.

 

[zinfamous]

In that case we should hold off until there's a new Speaker of the House...

I'm thinking that the only option for the GOP right now is to encourage Trump to resign in very short order. All of this dangling over them heading to midterms is going to mean that today's blue wave is going to turn into a Tsunami. If they can manage to have Pence in office by that time, easily-swayed short-attention-span GOP voters will determine that their party is back in control and totally responsible again. There will be far less voter apathy.

For the country's sake, I hope that Mitch and Paul continue to waffle, and continue to let this drag out until after November.

Of course it is also in the country's interest that Congressional dems delay any major House or Senate action, such as a hypothetical succession of POTUS to, say the Speaker (considering that the current one is a lame duck), or SCOTUS justice hearings, until "the people decide" how this should be determined. Good 'ol Mitch.

 

[Ken g6]

Where's the evidence that this is about Pence? Until I see some this is just wishful thinking.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm thinking that the only option for the GOP right now is to encourage Trump to resign in very short order. All of this dangling over them heading to midterms is going to mean that today's blue wave is going to turn into a Tsunami. If they can manage to have Pence in office by that time, easily-swayed short-attention-span GOP voters will determine that their party is back in control and totally responsible again. There will be far less voter apathy.

For the country's sake, I hope that Mitch and Paul continue to waffle, and continue to let this drag out until after November.

Of course it is also in the country's interest that Congressional dems delay any major House or Senate action, such as a hypothetical succession of POTUS to, say the Speaker (considering that the current one is a lame duck), or SCOTUS justice hearings, until "the people decide" how this should be determined. Good 'ol Mitch.

The GOP can't turn on Trump at this juncture. The base would go berserk. The unintended consequences of making those poor people crazy are catching up to the GOP.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Where's the evidence that this is about Pence? Until I see some this is just wishful thinking.

I believe you have this backwards. Until Mueller has cleared Pence from his questionable ties to Flynn and possibly Manafort I'd suggest that thinking Pence was completely ignorant of all wrongdoing is wishful thinking. You can of course use Google to learn more so I'll leave that up to you.

 

[Ken g6]

I believe you have this backwards. Until Mueller has cleared Pence from his questionable ties to Flynn and possibly Manafort I'd suggest that thinking Pence was completely ignorant of all wrongdoing is wishful thinking. You can of course use Google to learn more so I'll leave that up to you.

Thinking Pence was completely ignorant of all wrongdoing is Republican wishful thinking. Thinking he didn't cover his tracks is Democratic wishful thinking. Until I see at least a hint that he's implicated. Pence is a much more experienced politician than Trump.

 

[Jhhnn]

Where's the evidence that this is about Pence? Until I see some this is just wishful thinking.

I don't think it is. I was half joking in my reply to Hayabusa. I think Pence has intentionally distanced himself from a lot of Trump's shenanigans. Yeh, sure, he goes along with it all but mostly holds it at arm's length. He wasn't involved with the Trump tower incident & his involvement with Cohen appears to have been peripheral.

He's well positioned to become President if likely only for a short while. As I see it, his only chance in 2020 would be to rally the base in a way that will appeal to swing voters. I think he'd have to pardon Trump to do that. I mean, just because Trump's personal flaws let the hypocrites bring him down doesn't mean he didn't have a great vision for America. It just needs more White Jeezus. Or something.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Thinking Pence was completely ignorant of all wrongdoing is Republican wishful thinking. Thinking he didn't cover his tracks is Democratic wishful thinking. Until I see at least a hint that he's implicated. Pence is a much more experienced politician than Trump.

We shall see, but I dislike your odds considering what is known so far. Again you can read up on that if you so choose.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Pence is too much of a good Boy Scout to be involved. He may have second hand knowledge but it’s likely vague stuff like “I heard Trump on the phone and it sounded like...”
I imagine a table full of dirty dealers talking about their dastardly plans, then Pence enters to room an everyone just smiles at him while Trump makes some awkward Pence would never do something wrong joke

 

[Jhhnn]

Pence is too much of a good Boy Scout to be involved. He may have second hand knowledge but it’s likely vague stuff like “I heard Trump on the phone and it sounded like...”
I imagine a table full of dirty dealers talking about their dastardly plans, then Pence enters to room an everyone just smiles at him while Trump makes some awkward Pence would never do something wrong joke

I think Pence got a sense that Trump fatally wounded himself when he fired Comey & a special counsel was appointed. Sooo he stays away from unnecessary entanglements & sticks to all the usual vice prez duties. He's been a doer, not a planner & he's a patient man. Kinda like a vulture circling overhead...

 

[SMOGZINN]

The GOP can't turn on Trump at this juncture. The base would go berserk. The unintended consequences of making those poor people crazy are catching up to the GOP.

Not only that but I don't think there is any possible way that Trump is going to resign until Congress is actually calling on a vote of impeachment. Until then he will do everything in his power to hold onto power, and will bring our country down in the process if he has to. Trump cares about nothing but Trump, and is quite willing to burn the entire nation down if it benefits him personally. I also expect that if any serious charges are brought against him he will flee the nation. Trump is not about facing the consequences of his actions. In his mind being rich means not have to face consequences.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Not only that but I don't think there is any possible way that Trump is going to resign until Congress is actually calling on a vote of impeachment. Until then he will do everything in his power to hold onto power, and will bring our country down in the process if he has to. Trump cares about nothing but Trump, and is quite willing to burn the entire nation down if it benefits him personally. I also expect that if any serious charges are brought against him he will flee the nation. Trump is not about facing the consequences of his actions. In his mind being rich means not have to face consequences.

I don’t think he’d resign then either. Trump is such a narcissist that he’ll always believe himself, not others they will always be wrong. He likely would sit in the office and give orders until nobody responds to those orders.

*i don’t think we will see this day*

 

[hal2kilo]

Pence is too much of a good Boy Scout to be involved. He may have second hand knowledge but it’s likely vague stuff like “I heard Trump on the phone and it sounded like...”
I imagine a table full of dirty dealers talking about their dastardly plans, then Pence enters to room an everyone just smiles at him while Trump makes some awkward Pence would never do something wrong joke

Oh yes. He would love for you to think that about him. I don't buy his immovable solid white hair looks.

 

[marincounty]

In that case we should hold off until there's a new Speaker of the House...

I like how you think....President Pelosi!

 

[woolfe9998]

What Flynn is supplying to Mueller is one of the biggest mysteries in this entire investigation. He was given a sweetheart deal, allowed to plead to one felony perjury count, when they could have gotten him on much more. Probably the difference between doing 6 months and doing 10+ years. He has to be supplying them with something of value. Yet he isn't a witness for any of the indictments we've seen so far.

This is why it's problematic to judge the situation just based on the existing indictments. Mueller is very tight lipped and we aren't going to know everything until the final report. I do suspect, however, that we're going to find out pretty soon that Flynn is telling them important and incriminating things that we so far have no inkling of.