Flying Imams Suing Passengers

[Aimster]

Yes suing people has a lot to do with a Jihad.... "rolls eyes'

Why is this thread full of people who sound like all they ever talk about in the real world is "what is your magic level in noname Game".?

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Actually it's all part of Jihad. One of the first steps is to get the country you're attacking to change their laws that are more inline with islam. This is just the first step and hopefully people will WAKE UP to what is going on.

They're suing because they got kicked off of a flight for praying. Is that really that scary for you? Is it scary that American muslims don't like being discriminated against for their religious beliefs? Its stupid to include the other passengers in the suit, but it has nothing to do with trying to change America to be more in line with Islam.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: spidey07
Actually it's all part of Jihad. One of the first steps is to get the country you're attacking to change their laws that are more inline with islam. This is just the first step and hopefully people will WAKE UP to what is going on.

They're suing because they got kicked off of a flight for praying. Is that really that scary for you? Is it scary that American muslims don't like being discriminated against for their religious beliefs? Its stupid to include the other passengers in the suit, but it has nothing to do with trying to change America to be more in line with Islam.

Oh really? I don't see it like that. I see as following Jihad lock and step. I don't want to face the mess Europe is facing.

-edit-
We were asked to stay viligiant and be on the lookout for this kind of behavior. Those passengers should be praised, not sued. We are at WAR people

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: spidey07
Actually it's all part of Jihad. One of the first steps is to get the country you're attacking to change their laws that are more inline with islam. This is just the first step and hopefully people will WAKE UP to what is going on.

They're suing because they got kicked off of a flight for praying. Is that really that scary for you? Is it scary that American muslims don't like being discriminated against for their religious beliefs? Its stupid to include the other passengers in the suit, but it has nothing to do with trying to change America to be more in line with Islam.

Oh really? I don't see it like that. I see as following Jihad lock and step. I don't want to face the mess Europe is facing.

Incapacitating ourselves to having suspicious behavior reported is just one small step at the beginning of a long road following in Europe?s shadow.

In Europe it's illegal to cite the youths burning down France as Muslim. Doing so could provoke hate crime. I presume we?re only a few years away from establishing such protective laws here as well. In following Europe?s lead we have to open up and FORCE multicultural understanding of a culture there is invested in our destruction.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Aimster

Originally posted by: Corbett
Flying Imams. Sounds like a circus act!

your education level is showing.

what is it again?

Higher than yours.

Move out of mom and dads house yet?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: magomago
So before we totally toss them out - lets pause and look at what dna is bitching about...

Muslims suing someone....

what, is he mad they are working within the legal system that exists? Is he mad that they are using the infrastructure that already exists?

Sounds perfectly American to me. Whether or not their case has merit, the point is look at the means by which they are "fighting back" . Otherwise this biatching is just another lame excuse to complain about Muslims. Do people WANT them to go blow something up instead, so you can continue to emphasize how much "teh ebil" they are?

Please dna...be rational here ~ this is exactly what we Americans (not sure if you are one ) WANT... you can be mad at it, the average American should be happy --> whether or not they agree with the lawsuit.
==========

As for my actual opinion - lawsuit sounds like some B.S. to me, and in that regard I agree with 1prophet. However - let them sue, let them engage in the courts because this is how we do it in America

Thank you magomago. I nearly fell over when I read 1prophet say this was intimidation no different than the Mafia. I had no idea the Mafia threatened people with the judicial system.

I'm sure these folk will get what legal remedy they are entitled to.

I was not using the example of mafia because they use the judicial system but the fact that people tend to keep their mouths shut when they feel they are powerless and intimidated, since few have the resources to go up against a team of lawyers.

Corporations use this tactic all the time knowing that the John Doe won't have the resources to fight.


But the blame for this rests with us because we do nothing about it,

I agree, before 9/11 we wanted quick, easy, and cheap flights therefore security was one of the lowest priorities.

not with those who employ this perfectly legal technique.

True morality can never be legislated, because one can be right legally and still not do right morally, that is why religious leaders of whatever persuasion should always take the higher ground to set an example, and in doing so will not only gain the respect of their own members but those who fear or hate them.

Don't forget it is also a two edged sword. The fear of class actions, etc, keep lots of folk more honest than they might wish to be.

Class action lawsuits are a good thing because it allows the weak to go after the strong when the strong use their legal power to silence or ignore the weak, but now if one sues witnesses if they see something suspicious because they reported it why should future witnesses report anything?

If these individuals stood up and said these guys are terrorists like yelling fire in a theater then they should be sued to the full extent of the law,(since they obviously are no experts on Islam), but if they reported suspicious activity like we have been told to do so to the authorities then it is up to the authorities to make the call and be responsible for the actions they partake.
Here is an example of a Jewish man being taken off a plane for praying, should he have sued the passengers for being ignorant?

I think your characterization was over the top and unfair.

I stand by my characterization since I have seen the same type of actions displayed by the Pat Robertsons, Jerry Fallwells, Jehovah Witnesses, etc, and the religious right using the power of the legal system to silence those that may be against them.

I will not give a free pass to CAIR, The Muslim Brotherhood, The Saudi's, etc. since to me it seems they are trying to silence others just like their own.



Are we going to say that God is like the Mafia because He warns about Hell?

Does not God warn us about Hell because he wishes us to be in Heaven?

Do the Imams sue to allow other religious leaders freedom from ignorant suspicion. Must we continue to stop every young black person who drives a nice car because he obviously stole it? These men have a right to use our law and the courts will decide if they are right or wrong. The law is intimidating by nature. That should not stop people from seeking justice. It was legal intimidation that ended overt racial discrimination in the South before it became less racial out of the natural goodness in people's hearts.

You are entitled to your opinion and the imams can ignore it. But you can't read their minds and know for sure why they do what they do. I don't like to find myself always thinking the worst though I do all the time. I always see in others what I am.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: spidey07
Actually it's all part of Jihad. One of the first steps is to get the country you're attacking to change their laws that are more inline with islam. This is just the first step and hopefully people will WAKE UP to what is going on.

They're suing because they got kicked off of a flight for praying. Is that really that scary for you? Is it scary that American muslims don't like being discriminated against for their religious beliefs? Its stupid to include the other passengers in the suit, but it has nothing to do with trying to change America to be more in line with Islam.

Oh really? I don't see it like that. I see as following Jihad lock and step. I don't want to face the mess Europe is facing.

Incapacitating ourselves to having suspicious behavior reported is just one small step at the beginning of a long road following in Europe?s shadow.

In Europe it's illegal to cite the youths burning down France as Muslim. Doing so could provoke hate crime. I presume we?re only a few years away from establishing such protective laws here as well. In following Europe?s lead we have to open up and FORCE multicultural understanding of a culture there is invested in our destruction.

Praying is not suspicious behavior to anyone who is educated about Islam.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Do the Imams sue to allow other religious leaders freedom from ignorant suspicion.

As of now it appears to me to be on the behalf of themselves.


Must we continue to stop every young black person who drives a nice car because he obviously stole it?

Since the only one that can pull someone over legally is the police they should suffer the consequences if they are pulling someone over because of their color alone.

Now if someone calls in that they see suspicious activity with the car and driver should the police ignore the witness for fear of being accused with racial profiling?




These men have a right to use our law and the courts will decide if they are right or wrong.

Yes they have the right to use our law and the courts , but the courts also protect witnesses or else the police would have a hard time getting tips and information, that is why many times they ask for anonymous tips because they know otherwise tips would be far and few, the most profound example of this is the witness protection program where the prosecuter feels protecting the witness is worth the information they have.



The law is intimidating by nature.

I agree

That should not stop people from seeking justice.

I agree


It was legal intimidation that ended overt racial discrimination in the South before it became less racial out of the natural goodness in people's hearts.

Yes it was legal intimidation that ended overt racial discrimination in the South, it was the civil rights laws because the local authorities were part of the good old boy system causing justice to go in a continous circle until the federal government stepped in.

You are entitled to your opinion and the imams can ignore it. But you can't read their minds and know for sure why they do what they do. I don't like to find myself always thinking the worst though I do all the time. I always see in others what I am.[/quote]

I agree with you and we must find the balance between the blissful ignorance before 9/11 and the paranoid state we are in today but it definetly will not come from suing people because they believe they saw something suspicious.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: spidey07
Actually it's all part of Jihad. One of the first steps is to get the country you're attacking to change their laws that are more inline with islam. This is just the first step and hopefully people will WAKE UP to what is going on.

They're suing because they got kicked off of a flight for praying. Is that really that scary for you? Is it scary that American muslims don't like being discriminated against for their religious beliefs? Its stupid to include the other passengers in the suit, but it has nothing to do with trying to change America to be more in line with Islam.

Oh really? I don't see it like that. I see as following Jihad lock and step. I don't want to face the mess Europe is facing.

Incapacitating ourselves to having suspicious behavior reported is just one small step at the beginning of a long road following in Europe?s shadow.

In Europe it's illegal to cite the youths burning down France as Muslim. Doing so could provoke hate crime. I presume we?re only a few years away from establishing such protective laws here as well. In following Europe?s lead we have to open up and FORCE multicultural understanding of a culture there is invested in our destruction.

No offense, but you guys sound like idiots ranting about "changing our laws that are more inline with Islam" and how doing so will be "incapacitate ourselves" or that doing so is somehow contrary to our American values and leaning towards the kind of fascist behavior found in the Middle East. In other words, that fighting against discrimination, mistrust and suspicion of Muslims is un-American and pro-"Islamofascism".

Pardon me for saying so, but I think YOU are more like the kind of guys we need less of in this country if we want to remain the dominant force for freedom and democracy in the world. Last time I checked, not only was freedom of religious expression a fundamental part of what we stand for, it's enumerated in our founding document as the very first right, even before the holy grail of conservatives, the 2nd amendment. It's not a good idea, or something we should support if it's not too much trouble, it's one of the most important rights we have in this country. The idiots who think praying to Allah makes you a terrorist were violating the spirit of the 1st amendment, and while I'm not sure a lawsuit is the answer, I don't blame the Imams for being a little pissed off.

As for European laws, I think they are greatly exaggerated by right-wing pundits, but lucky for us we have OTHER rights that prevent that sort of crap. Like the REST of the 1st amendment, and all the rest of them. That's the advantage of having rights, and I know it makes right-wingers absolutely crazy, but those rights apply to EVERYONE...from numbnuts like you two to Imams who didn't have the good sense not to pray in a public place. Don't like it? Feel free to move someplace where you can behave like you really want to. It's too bad you guys aren't Muslim, or I might suggest Iran or Saudi Arabia...but I'm sure you can find some nice little despotic Christian country more to your liking. As for the rest of us, we like it here just the way it is...so piss off.

 

[spidey07]

Rainsford, I think you forget that we are at war. It changes things.

Do NOT let these guys use our own laws against us. Because that is what they are doing. They're not dumb. They are following Jihad. Just like we had to fight Nazis, we must fight this movement/invasion.

Do you defend Nazis? Would you be so PC to defend their beliefs? Because there is little difference.

I knew this pussified country didn't have the heart for war on 9/11. I was right.

 

[babylon5]

This imam has the right to sue. But this brings bad publicity to himself, and to his religion. 3000 died as result of people claiming his religion. Is it so hard to understand why people would be worry and be suspicious? All he does is making people even more negative toward his religion.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Do the Imams sue to allow other religious leaders freedom from ignorant suspicion.

As of now it appears to me to be on the behalf of themselves.


Must we continue to stop every young black person who drives a nice car because he obviously stole it?

Since the only one that can pull someone over legally is the police they should suffer the consequences if they are pulling someone over because of their color alone.

Now if someone calls in that they see suspicious activity with the car and driver should the police ignore the witness for fear of being accused with racial profiling?




These men have a right to use our law and the courts will decide if they are right or wrong.

Yes they have the right to use our law and the courts , but the courts also protect witnesses or else the police would have a hard time getting tips and information, that is why many times they ask for anonymous tips because they know otherwise tips would be far and few, the most profound example of this is the witness protection program where the prosecuter feels protecting the witness is worth the information they have.



The law is intimidating by nature.

I agree

That should not stop people from seeking justice.

I agree


It was legal intimidation that ended overt racial discrimination in the South before it became less racial out of the natural goodness in people's hearts.

Yes it was legal intimidation that ended overt racial discrimination in the South, it was the civil rights laws because the local authorities were part of the good old boy system causing justice to go in a continous circle until the federal government stepped in.

You are entitled to your opinion and the imams can ignore it. But you can't read their minds and know for sure why they do what they do. I don't like to find myself always thinking the worst though I do all the time. I always see in others what I am.

I agree with you and we must find the balance between the blissful ignorance before 9/11 and the paranoid state we are in today but it definetly will not come from suing people because they believe they saw something suspicious.

[/quote]

Nor will it come from reacting to every paranoid witness who thinks his or her personal hysteria and cultural insularity should preempt everybody else's life. The intimidation of the law is one road toward the education of everybody in our evolution toward cultural sensitivity. Just try to understand how difficult the Devil made it for angels on earth, for example, because we have hooves.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Do the Imams sue to allow other religious leaders freedom from ignorant suspicion.

As of now it appears to me to be on the behalf of themselves.


Must we continue to stop every young black person who drives a nice car because he obviously stole it?

Since the only one that can pull someone over legally is the police they should suffer the consequences if they are pulling someone over because of their color alone.

Now if someone calls in that they see suspicious activity with the car and driver should the police ignore the witness for fear of being accused with racial profiling?




These men have a right to use our law and the courts will decide if they are right or wrong.

Yes they have the right to use our law and the courts , but the courts also protect witnesses or else the police would have a hard time getting tips and information, that is why many times they ask for anonymous tips because they know otherwise tips would be far and few, the most profound example of this is the witness protection program where the prosecuter feels protecting the witness is worth the information they have.



The law is intimidating by nature.

I agree

That should not stop people from seeking justice.

I agree


It was legal intimidation that ended overt racial discrimination in the South before it became less racial out of the natural goodness in people's hearts.

Yes it was legal intimidation that ended overt racial discrimination in the South, it was the civil rights laws because the local authorities were part of the good old boy system causing justice to go in a continous circle until the federal government stepped in.

You are entitled to your opinion and the imams can ignore it. But you can't read their minds and know for sure why they do what they do. I don't like to find myself always thinking the worst though I do all the time. I always see in others what I am.

I agree with you and we must find the balance between the blissful ignorance before 9/11 and the paranoid state we are in today but it definetly will not come from suing people because they believe they saw something suspicious.

Nor will it come from reacting to every paranoid witness who thinks his or her personal hysteria and cultural insularity should preempt everybody else's life. The intimidation of the law is one road toward the education of everybody in our evolution toward cultural sensitivity. Just try to understand how difficult the Devil made it for angels on earth, for example, because we have hooves.[/quote]

Unfortunately standard procedure is to investigate all allegations at airports sort of damned if you do, or damned if you don't. Perhaps a solution would be to tell the paranoid traveler to get on the next flight if they feel uncomfortable due to cultural insensitivity.

Intimidation of the law only works if you can change the inner nature of the people you wish to educate, otherwise all the law is doing is holding the lid down on the boiling pot like Tito did in Yugoslavia between croatians, serbs, and muslims, or Sadaam did between Shias and Shiites.

I guess we need to shed our hooves and grow some wings.

 

[1prophet]

Interesting article about CAIR by moderate muslims



Not All Muslims Support CAIR Plan to Sue U.S. Airways on Behalf of Six Imams

MARCH 13, 2007

NOT ALL MUSLIMS SUPPORT CAIR PLAN TO SUE US AIRWAYS on BEHALF of SIX IMAMS

Muslim organization believes that lawsuit filed by CAIR on behalf of local Phoenix imams is wrong for American Muslims and wrong for America.


[PHOENIX, AZ: March 13, 2007]: Wide media attention is being given today to the lawsuit filed by CAIR on behalf of six imams against U.S. Airways for their claims of discrimination against race and religion. Most of the imams are from local mosques here in Phoenix and were removed from a U.S. Airways flight on November 21, 2006 en route to Phoenix from Minneapolis.

AIFD would like the American public to be aware of our following positions representing an alternative voice from the American Muslim community.

1. We will not accept the victimization agenda of organizations like CAIR. Lawsuits like the one announced today exploit the climate of political correctness and at the end of the day are harmful to the Muslim minority in America.

2. Make no mistake, this type of agenda and policy direction of organizations like CAIR only represents its own membership and its own donors. A relatively small percentage of the 5-6 million American Muslims are enrolled as members of CAIR. Recent considerable donations to CAIR upwards of a combined $100 million from foreign nations like Dubai and Saudi Arabia make these types of costly, distractive actions against domestic airlines such as US Airways very concerning in its manifestation of foreign interference.

3. One of the frontlines in the war on terror is at the airports and at the gates. While the imams were clearly removed for their behavior after entering the plane, it should be made clear that many less rigid but equally pious Muslims believe (including 3 out of 6 of the imams for that matter) that the prayer they performed could have been performed upon landing in Phoenix due to travel dispensations in Islam or privately on time while seated on the flight. Muslims believe that God is forgiving and does not expect religion to be "too difficult".

4. While the six imams' handlers, CAIR, and their lawyers may have some kind of obscure basis for their lawsuit, it is our belief that the fallout and publicity from such litigation is wrong for American Muslims, wrong for American security, and wrong for American freedoms. The greatest guarantor of our rights as American Muslims is the tenor of our relationship with the greater majority of American society. This type of litigiousness is divisive and achieves nothing but resentment and actually causes far more harm than good to the overall image of the Muslim community in the eyes of non-Muslim America.

4. It is our hope as Americans and as Muslims that U.S. Airways stand firm in its defense of its actions to have the gentleman removed for concerns regarding their behavior after entering the plane. This is not about race or religion. It is about the privilege to fly securely.

5. The constant exploitation of America's culture of political correctness especially in this setting of what is the most dangerous environment of air travel is out of touch with America's priorities. Such misguided priorities by Muslim activist organizations like CAIR will make the legitimate defense of our civil rights far more difficult when more serious complaints of racism and discrimination are involved. America is quickly becoming numb to their constant refrains and the polls demonstrate the profound ineffectiveness of their tiring campaigns.

6. The organized Muslim community should instead be working on developing a strategic plan to counter militant Islamism within the Muslim community. That would do a lot more to change public opinion than suing the airlines who are trying to keep Americans who travel safe.

 

[dahunan]

Someone show me a video of what these guys looked like when they were praying?

Christians at least have the decency not to force their prayer actions on others..

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Christians at least have the decency not to force their prayer actions on others..

What the hell does that even mean?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: dahunan
Christians at least have the decency not to force their prayer actions on others..

What the hell does that even mean?

How many Christians HAVE TO pray loudly and physically?

They can whisper and it still has the same effect.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: dahunan
Christians at least have the decency not to force their prayer actions on others..

What the hell does that even mean?

How many Christians HAVE TO pray loudly and physically?

They can whisper and it still has the same effect.

Don't tell people how to pray. One of them might gut you like a fish.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: dahunan
Christians at least have the decency not to force their prayer actions on others..

What the hell does that even mean?

How many Christians HAVE TO pray loudly and physically?

They can whisper and it still has the same effect.

Don't tell people how to pray. One of them might gut you like a fish.

Dayum.. what religion would they be following? :Q

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Interesting article about CAIR by moderate muslims



Not All Muslims Support CAIR Plan to Sue U.S. Airways on Behalf of Six Imams

MARCH 13, 2007

NOT ALL MUSLIMS SUPPORT CAIR PLAN TO SUE US AIRWAYS on BEHALF of SIX IMAMS

Muslim organization believes that lawsuit filed by CAIR on behalf of local Phoenix imams is wrong for American Muslims and wrong for America.


[PHOENIX, AZ: March 13, 2007]: Wide media attention is being given today to the lawsuit filed by CAIR on behalf of six imams against U.S. Airways for their claims of discrimination against race and religion. Most of the imams are from local mosques here in Phoenix and were removed from a U.S. Airways flight on November 21, 2006 en route to Phoenix from Minneapolis.

AIFD would like the American public to be aware of our following positions representing an alternative voice from the American Muslim community.

1. We will not accept the victimization agenda of organizations like CAIR. Lawsuits like the one announced today exploit the climate of political correctness and at the end of the day are harmful to the Muslim minority in America.

2. Make no mistake, this type of agenda and policy direction of organizations like CAIR only represents its own membership and its own donors. A relatively small percentage of the 5-6 million American Muslims are enrolled as members of CAIR. Recent considerable donations to CAIR upwards of a combined $100 million from foreign nations like Dubai and Saudi Arabia make these types of costly, distractive actions against domestic airlines such as US Airways very concerning in its manifestation of foreign interference.

3. One of the frontlines in the war on terror is at the airports and at the gates. While the imams were clearly removed for their behavior after entering the plane, it should be made clear that many less rigid but equally pious Muslims believe (including 3 out of 6 of the imams for that matter) that the prayer they performed could have been performed upon landing in Phoenix due to travel dispensations in Islam or privately on time while seated on the flight. Muslims believe that God is forgiving and does not expect religion to be "too difficult".

4. While the six imams' handlers, CAIR, and their lawyers may have some kind of obscure basis for their lawsuit, it is our belief that the fallout and publicity from such litigation is wrong for American Muslims, wrong for American security, and wrong for American freedoms. The greatest guarantor of our rights as American Muslims is the tenor of our relationship with the greater majority of American society. This type of litigiousness is divisive and achieves nothing but resentment and actually causes far more harm than good to the overall image of the Muslim community in the eyes of non-Muslim America.

4. It is our hope as Americans and as Muslims that U.S. Airways stand firm in its defense of its actions to have the gentleman removed for concerns regarding their behavior after entering the plane. This is not about race or religion. It is about the privilege to fly securely.

5. The constant exploitation of America's culture of political correctness especially in this setting of what is the most dangerous environment of air travel is out of touch with America's priorities. Such misguided priorities by Muslim activist organizations like CAIR will make the legitimate defense of our civil rights far more difficult when more serious complaints of racism and discrimination are involved. America is quickly becoming numb to their constant refrains and the polls demonstrate the profound ineffectiveness of their tiring campaigns.

6. The organized Muslim community should instead be working on developing a strategic plan to counter militant Islamism within the Muslim community. That would do a lot more to change public opinion than suing the airlines who are trying to keep Americans who travel safe.

How nice, the Democratic process in action where everybody can weigh in with his own opinion and those who think one way can go that way and others who think otherwise can test things in the law. Super, we will resolve our issues by the law. Then if somebody wins you disagree with you can belly ache about how they used the law like the Mafia uses threats. Hehe. I think I will start calling the airport police when I see somebody playing with beads. It could be a fuse. People who smile are hiding something too.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Rainsford, I think you forget that we are at war. It changes things.

Do NOT let these guys use our own laws against us. Because that is what they are doing. They're not dumb. They are following Jihad. Just like we had to fight Nazis, we must fight this movement/invasion.

Do you defend Nazis? Would you be so PC to defend their beliefs? Because there is little difference.

I knew this pussified country didn't have the heart for war on 9/11. I was right.

Don't pull that stupid bullshit, it's a cheap tactic more suited to the knuckledraggers who call into right-wing radio shows than someone who usually posts fairly intelligent stuff. I hope you are at least intelligent enough to realize that my disagreement with your opinion of how best to fight this conflict doesn't mean I disagree about its existence. If you don't, I can't really help you...

Still, I'm curious. I remember all too well we're at war, but I ALSO occasionally manage to reign in my patriotic fervor long enough to realize just who we are at war with. And it's not with loudmouthed Imams who want to sue people who offended them, or "Islamists" or Muslims or Muslims who don't know their place, it's people who fly airplanes into buildings in order to kill as many people as possible in order to make a political point. I could care less about their religion or their beliefs or their favorite sports team. I think we should certainly go after Islamic terrorists, but I don't think we should give anyone else a pass just because they go to a church instead of a mosque. And I damn sure don't think the most effective way to fight terrorism of ANY sort is by turning it into some sort of vague war against everyone who happens to share the same race or religion or language of the actual terrorists.

This isn't about being "PC", this about how to effectively fight terrorism...something you're silly Nazi comparison totally misses. The Nazis controlled an entire country and the vast majority of German citizens and had all the power and weaponry that went with that. In order to fight the Nazis, we had to declare war on that entire country and engage in large scale conflict against millions of enemy troops with millions of troops of our own. But modern terrorism, all right-wing hyperbole aside, doesn't work like that. It's fairly small groups of people who use their small size to their advantage, striking "soft" targets and retreating. Even when engaging military targets, they try to make their attack against the softest target possible...which is why frontal assaults on US bases are fairly rare, yet remotely detonated IEDs under poorly armored vehicles are common. They do this because they don't have a huge army or massive support drawn from their source populations...terrorists are NOT the same thing as the populations they come from.

I know you think you're being tough on terrorism, but your kind of thinking is useless at best and detrimental to the fight at worst. These Imams might be annoying (although their lawsuit hardly makes them stand out in this country), but the only people who think they are terrorists are the 6 people who take the Washington Times seriously (notice how no real newspaper covered the story the way the Times did?). However much their religion might piss you off, going after them doesn't do us one bit of good in terms of stopping terrorism and brining terrorists to justice. We fought Nazis by fighting Nazis, you can't fight Islamic terrorism by attacking Muslims, you fight it by attacking Islamic terrorists. But it's worse than that, and I think you know why. Every time some jackass gets up and says that our REAL fight isn't with the terrorists but with the entirety of Islam and every single person who calls themselves a Muslim, you make it that much more true. At a time when we NEED the support of Muslims for both obvious and unobvious reasons, you and people like you are essentially recruiting for the terrorists...helping to convince moderate Muslims that maybe the US might not be the best group to throw in with. Now does that REALLY seem like a good strategy, no matter how tough and manly it makes you feel?

And one last point. "Everything changed on 9/11" (and every variation) is a phrase of such pathetic submissiveness that I want to put my fist through a wall every time I hear it. Far from being the strong, manly phrase you think it is, it reeks of such defeat and capitulation that it makes me think that the terrorists took down more than buildings on 9/11. We're so terrified by 9/11 that we're willing to give up anything, abandon any principle, no matter how important or how dear to our national identity, if only it sounds like it might have chance of keeping us safe. I've never heard a reasonable explanation of WHY giving up our founding principles somehow makes our fight more effective, but all it takes is the PROMISE of increased safety to have Americans lining up to hand over their freedoms and (especially) the freedoms of their neighbors. Are we all a bunch of fair weather patriots, who forget what we stand for the minute living up to our principles becomes the slightest bit challenging?

Strong men, men with REAL heart, are the ones with real principles that don't change when it becomes difficult to live up to them. They don't shrink from a fight, but when it comes to the necessary fights, they don't forget who they are either...because sometimes that's more important than the expedient victory. Sometimes, if it's big enough, it's more important than victory at all. Like the man said, "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees". You want to talk about "pussified"? I can't think of anything that fits that description better than that pathetic defeatists crap your selling. What difference does it make if we win or lose, you already lost.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: dahunan
Christians at least have the decency not to force their prayer actions on others..

What the hell does that even mean?

How many Christians HAVE TO pray loudly and physically?

They can whisper and it still has the same effect.

Don't tell people how to pray. One of them might gut you like a fish.

Dayum.. what religion would they be following? :Q

The only true religion of course.

 

[MegaWorks]

Wow GJ Rainsford! Brian everytime I read your posts I see a hint of intelligence in you my good man. :thumbsup:

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: dahunan
Christians at least have the decency not to force their prayer actions on others..

What the hell does that even mean?

How many Christians HAVE TO pray loudly and physically?

They can whisper and it still has the same effect.

Honestly, how many times have you seen a Muslim praying in public?

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Interesting article about CAIR by moderate muslims



Not All Muslims Support CAIR Plan to Sue U.S. Airways on Behalf of Six Imams

MARCH 13, 2007

NOT ALL MUSLIMS SUPPORT CAIR PLAN TO SUE US AIRWAYS on BEHALF of SIX IMAMS

Muslim organization believes that lawsuit filed by CAIR on behalf of local Phoenix imams is wrong for American Muslims and wrong for America.


[PHOENIX, AZ: March 13, 2007]: Wide media attention is being given today to the lawsuit filed by CAIR on behalf of six imams against U.S. Airways for their claims of discrimination against race and religion. Most of the imams are from local mosques here in Phoenix and were removed from a U.S. Airways flight on November 21, 2006 en route to Phoenix from Minneapolis.

AIFD would like the American public to be aware of our following positions representing an alternative voice from the American Muslim community.

1. We will not accept the victimization agenda of organizations like CAIR. Lawsuits like the one announced today exploit the climate of political correctness and at the end of the day are harmful to the Muslim minority in America.

2. Make no mistake, this type of agenda and policy direction of organizations like CAIR only represents its own membership and its own donors. A relatively small percentage of the 5-6 million American Muslims are enrolled as members of CAIR. Recent considerable donations to CAIR upwards of a combined $100 million from foreign nations like Dubai and Saudi Arabia make these types of costly, distractive actions against domestic airlines such as US Airways very concerning in its manifestation of foreign interference.

3. One of the frontlines in the war on terror is at the airports and at the gates. While the imams were clearly removed for their behavior after entering the plane, it should be made clear that many less rigid but equally pious Muslims believe (including 3 out of 6 of the imams for that matter) that the prayer they performed could have been performed upon landing in Phoenix due to travel dispensations in Islam or privately on time while seated on the flight. Muslims believe that God is forgiving and does not expect religion to be "too difficult".

4. While the six imams' handlers, CAIR, and their lawyers may have some kind of obscure basis for their lawsuit, it is our belief that the fallout and publicity from such litigation is wrong for American Muslims, wrong for American security, and wrong for American freedoms. The greatest guarantor of our rights as American Muslims is the tenor of our relationship with the greater majority of American society. This type of litigiousness is divisive and achieves nothing but resentment and actually causes far more harm than good to the overall image of the Muslim community in the eyes of non-Muslim America.

4. It is our hope as Americans and as Muslims that U.S. Airways stand firm in its defense of its actions to have the gentleman removed for concerns regarding their behavior after entering the plane. This is not about race or religion. It is about the privilege to fly securely.

5. The constant exploitation of America's culture of political correctness especially in this setting of what is the most dangerous environment of air travel is out of touch with America's priorities. Such misguided priorities by Muslim activist organizations like CAIR will make the legitimate defense of our civil rights far more difficult when more serious complaints of racism and discrimination are involved. America is quickly becoming numb to their constant refrains and the polls demonstrate the profound ineffectiveness of their tiring campaigns.

6. The organized Muslim community should instead be working on developing a strategic plan to counter militant Islamism within the Muslim community. That would do a lot more to change public opinion than suing the airlines who are trying to keep Americans who travel safe.

How nice, the Democratic process in action where everybody can weigh in with his own opinion and those who think one way can go that way and others who think otherwise can test things in the law. Super, we will resolve our issues by the law. Then if somebody wins you disagree with you can belly ache about how they used the law like the Mafia uses threats. Hehe. I think I will start calling the airport police when I see somebody playing with beads. It could be a fuse. People who smile are hiding something too.

A man was going down a one way street in a car, along came a truck going the wrong way because the driver didn't know the street and was scared and nervous being in an unfamiliar city, but because the man in the car had the right of way he kept going instead of yielding onto the nearest exit. The man said to himself it is my right to go down this street and since I have the right of way I will not stop and be inconvinienced. Needless to say there was an accident and the street was blocked for hours and the car was totalled, but at least the man was right.