Fluorescent tube bulb with internal reflector, where can I get this?

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F

fleabag

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Oct 1, 2007
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I want this bulb:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lighting#Reflectors

It's in the description yet I can't find it for sale. What I really want to do is change the lighting in my room with T5 sized bulbs that will run across the middle of the room. Problem is, most fixtures and bulbs direct the light in all directions which is extremely wasteful and so I want a bulb that will direct the light in the direction I want.


I had the idea of just taking a regular fluorescent bulb and spraying some chrome paint on it but I'm a little concerned about electrical hazard of doing that.
 
Colt45

Colt45

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
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having a pretty hard time seeing what you need this for. You'd think if it was that beneficial it would be standard issue.
 
F

fleabag

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Oct 1, 2007
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Reflectorlamp.gif


See it...? When you mount a fluorescent bulb into a fixture, half of the light is going back into the fixture itself which is very wasteful. I don't commonly see lighting fixtures with reflectors on them despite them benefiting from them but one application where this is common is in hydroponics. In hydroponics, they attempt to utilize as much of the useful light as possible, unlike in current interior lighting.
 
Colt45

Colt45

Lifer
Apr 18, 2001
19,720
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Yeah I know. But they're already pretty bloody efficient. The cost of the reflector probably outweighs the savings. I don't know.
 
F

fleabag

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Oct 1, 2007
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Colt45 said:
Yeah I know. But they're already pretty bloody efficient. The cost of the reflector probably outweighs the savings. I don't know.
Click to expand...
If it means I can use half as many bulbs as I would normally need, then I fail to see how it wouldn't pay for itself in terms of electricity use and having to replace twice as many bulbs.
 
gaidensensei

gaidensensei

Banned
May 31, 2003
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Toasting in an energy efficiency conservation thread.

fleabag buy some thermoelectric modules, will help you with your cause.
Also look into growing cultures of Geobacter sulfurreducens, they are bacteria that will generate energy for you in the form of dissipation. Totally green.

Good luck.
 
R

RedArmy

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Mar 1, 2005
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fleabag said:
If it means I can use half as many bulbs as I would normally need, then I fail to see how it wouldn't pay for itself in terms of electricity use and having to replace twice as many bulbs.
Click to expand...

How many bulbs are we talking here? Is your room like walking on the surface of the sun? I guess I don't see how you' be using less light bulbs if you're going to be focusing the light on single areas. Sounds to me like you just need a brighter bulb to light up the whole general area.
 
F

fleabag

Banned
Oct 1, 2007
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RedArmy said:
How many bulbs are we talking here? Is your room like walking on the surface of the sun? I guess I don't see how you' be using less light bulbs if you're going to be focusing the light on single areas. Sounds to me like you just need a brighter bulb to light up the whole general area.
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Lets say I need 8, 4ft Fluorescent bulbs. That means a pair of light bulbs every 4 feet. Now, if I can direct half of the light that is being directed in a useless direction to a useful direction, then I'll be able to cut the number of bulbs I use in half. Remember, the light in these bulbs normally goes equally in all directions, so if I can reflect the light that goes in a "useless" direction into a useful direction, then there is a strong possibility of me being able to have the same amount of light output despite using half the number of bulbs.

In configurations where it's a pair of bulbs, you not only have light being wasted illuminating the fixture but also a fraction of the light going into the neighboring bulb.

So, to save space, increase simplicity (a reflector plus half the bulbs is indeed simpler), save electricity and henceforth save money on electricity and bulb purchases, I feel it would be prudent of me to purchase a high quality reflector for these bulbs.. There is a reason why automotive headlights, flash lights, CFL FLOOD lights, etc. use a reflector... to redirect the light in a useful direction.

I can't believe I have to actually explain why this would be useful..
 
N

Nox51

Senior member
Jul 4, 2009
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You sure you aren't trying to grow something or other? By the time you've spent to properly detail the setup and justify it here you could've just done it and moved on to something more productive. Look up law of diminishing returns.
 
R

RedArmy

Platinum Member
Mar 1, 2005
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fleabag said:
Lets say I need 8, 4ft Fluorescent bulbs. That means a pair of light bulbs every 4 feet. Now, if I can direct half of the light that is being directed in a useless direction to a useful direction, then I'll be able to cut the number of bulbs I use in half. Remember, the light in these bulbs normally goes equally in all directions, so if I can reflect the light that goes in a "useless" direction into a useful direction, then there is a strong possibility of me being able to have the same amount of light output despite using half the number of bulbs.

In configurations where it's a pair of bulbs, you not only have light being wasted illuminating the fixture but also a fraction of the light going into the neighboring bulb.

So, to save space, increase simplicity (a reflector plus half the bulbs is indeed simpler), save electricity and henceforth save money on electricity and bulb purchases, I feel it would be prudent of me to purchase a high quality reflector for these bulbs.. There is a reason why automotive headlights, flash lights, CFL FLOOD lights, etc. use a reflector... to redirect the light in a useful direction.

I can't believe I have to actually explain why this would be useful..
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I'm not talking about a hypothetical situation where we start off with "Let's say". You said in the OP that we're talking about your room. Unless you live in a mini-warehouse, that many light bulbs is incredibly impractical. Why exactly are we re-directing this mission critical light again? Are you trying to focus it on specific areas or something? If you're just trying to light up a room...that's the whole point of a light bulb. I have one floor-standing light fixture that lights the fuck out of my room (and my room is damn huge).

Edit: Also, you won't be getting that huge of a gain from redirecting the light such that you can cut the amount of lights needed in half. You have to remember that most surfaces do reflect light, ceilings included (also taking into account surface texture and color). Yeah, you'll be getting somewhat more light concentrated on a smaller area, but as a result you'll end up needing more lights to cover the entire area in a uniform fashion.

http://www.mike-willis.com/Tutorial/reflection.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lambert%27s_cosine_law
 
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N

Nox51

Senior member
Jul 4, 2009
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fleabag said:
Great post! I had no idea that you could get that stuff that easily.. Though I wonder, how come on real mirrors, the side where that "stuff" is on is black but when you look through the mirror, it is reflecting? How do they do it differently with a mirror?
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Silver coating on back of mirror. Silver oxidises to black on the back of the back.
 
edro

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
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Most fixtures have built in reflectors. White painted metal is an extremely effective reflector.
It may not be as specular as a mirror finish, but it is just as reflective.
White surfaces diffuse the reflected light, so it is not as apparent as a mirror finish.

As long as you have a white surface above your bulb, you are not wasting much light.
Each bounce off of a flat white surface loses about ~10-20% through absorption.
 
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W

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
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edro said:
Most fixtures have built in reflectors. White painted metal is an extremely effective reflector.
It may not be as specular as a mirror finish, but it is just as reflective.
White surfaces diffuse the reflected light, so it is not as apparent as a mirror finish.

As long as you have a white surface above your bulb, you are not wasting much light.
Each bounce off of a flat white surface loses about ~10-20% through absorption.
Click to expand...

exactly !
 
PottedMeat

PottedMeat

Lifer
Apr 17, 2002
12,363
475
126
heheh oh noes you mean someone's already thought of this?

edro said:
Most fixtures have built in reflectors. White painted metal is an extremely effective reflector.
It may not be as specular as a mirror finish, but it is just as reflective.
White surfaces diffuse the reflected light, so it is not as apparent as a mirror finish.

As long as you have a white surface above your bulb, you are not wasting much light.
Each bounce off of a flat white surface loses about ~10-20% through absorption.
Click to expand...

You fool, the sun is above you beaming free light and you refuse such gifts by using a roof.
 
I

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
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edro said:
Most fixtures have built in reflectors. White painted metal is an extremely effective reflector.
It may not be as specular as a mirror finish, but it is just as reflective.
White surfaces diffuse the reflected light, so it is not as apparent as a mirror finish.

As long as you have a white surface above your bulb, you are not wasting much light.
Each bounce off of a flat white surface loses about ~10-20% through absorption.
Click to expand...

Most people lose more only because they never bother to clean them. Also 'mirror' or 'silver' tends to aim the light more (spot light affect) and may actually reduce ambient light level in a room except right under the fixture. Adding a reflector right to the bulb will direct most of the light down in a narrow arc rather than disbursing it around the room. More fixtures would likely be needed to get the room to 'feel as bright.'

This is the same reason LED lights at the same lumen level often feel dimmer. They spot rather than throw light.
 
gaidensensei

gaidensensei

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May 31, 2003
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I see it's the first for many people who have not heard of the OP.

To do the favor inextricably explaining why fleabag (OP) is doing this, has to do with a fact s/he is an hypothetical energy-saving conversationalist to the extreme. There are past examples of (impractically) proposed energy savings schemes that still remain unsolved for the most part. The latter having been derailed for some.
 
zinfamous

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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haha. I can't wait to see the horrible lighting scheme you've created in your cave.

Your ideas are intriguing, fleabag; but mostly b/c they are predicated by half-understandings (real use, relevant efficiency, etc) of generally good concepts.

comparing reflector use for a car's headlight (why a headlight needs reflectors), to using reflectors for internal lighting, is completely asinine.

I love it that you don't get that. :D
 
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