Flu Shots and Faith

[MAW1082]

I heard this one the other night and I really like it!

Each year the influenza virus evolves and each year it becomes resistant to more and more drugs. The flu virus is an example of evolution in action . . .

So this guy on the Colbert Report put forth an interesting idea:

Each person who receives a flu shot should have to sign a contract pledging that they believe in evolution, or else they are denied the vaccine.

If you don't believe in evolution, then you don't believe the flu virus can become resistant to drugs and therefore you have no need for the new vaccine.

My only addition would be that each person should be allowed to receive a vaccine once in his or her lifetime without signing the pledge. After that, you better sign to survive! Ha! Ha! Haha! Ha!

 

[sandorski]

I object to that on principle, but found it to be LOL nonetheless.

 

[fierydemise]

I'm with sandorski, I object to the idea on principle but I love the idea none the less.

 

[RichardE]

There god will provide them with a flu shot

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Doesn't anyone know science here?

Natural selection is NOT evolution. The virus is still the influenza virus, not a bacteria. Many against evolution think that organisms can adapt without becoming a seperate species.

Personally evolution makes sense to me, but "this guy" is as ignorant as the anti evolutionists.

 

[chcarnage]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Doesn't anyone know science here?

Natural selection is NOT evolution. The virus is still the influenza virus, not a bacteria. Many against evolution think that organisms can adapt without becoming a seperate species.

Personally evolution makes sense to me, but "this guy" is as ignorant as the anti evolutionists.

Random mutations + Natural selection = Evolution.

It doesn't matter if the end result of an evolutionary process is a new strain or an entirely new species, it's evolution in both cases.

There is no reason to want a flu shot if you don't agree with the evolution theory.

 

[Genx87]

And people this is the new religion.

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: RichardE
There god will provide them with a flu shot

where god?

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Doesn't anyone know science here?

Natural selection is NOT evolution. The virus is still the influenza virus, not a bacteria. Many against evolution think that organisms can adapt without becoming a seperate species.

Personally evolution makes sense to me, but "this guy" is as ignorant as the anti evolutionists.

Incorrect.

These are the tenets of evolution

1. Semi-stable genetic code


+ the MAIN 3 +
2. Diversity
3. Selective pressure
4. Inheritable traits

... these translate into

4. Natural selection based on mutable characteristics that offer reproductive advantages, due to environmental adaptation.

... out of which follows

5. Change in the overall characteristics of an organism, which offer it a reproductive advantage in a particular habitat or environment.

5 = Evolution

P.S. Please don't buy into the whole micro- vs. macro-evolution nonsense. It's just utter crap, perpetuated by the creationists to subvert those who are too smart and educated to accept creationism per se, yet who still long for the comforts of a world explained by religion.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Doesn't anyone know science here?

Natural selection is NOT evolution. The virus is still the influenza virus, not a bacteria. Many against evolution think that organisms can adapt without becoming a seperate species.

Personally evolution makes sense to me, but "this guy" is as ignorant as the anti evolutionists.

Incorrect.

These are the tenets of evolution

1. Semi-stable genetic code


+ the MAIN 3 +
2. Diversity
3. Selective pressure
4. Inheritable traits

... these translate into

4. Natural selection based on mutable characteristics that offer reproductive advantages, due to environmental adaptation.

... out of which follows

5. Change in the overall characteristics of an organism, which offer it a reproductive advantage in a particular habitat or environment.

5 = Evolution

P.S. Please don't buy into the whole micro- vs. macro-evolution nonsense. It's just utter crap, perpetuated by the creationists to subvert those who are too smart and educated to accept creationism per se, yet who still long for the comforts of a world explained by religion.

er, no.

For example, there are birds which were considered to be seperate species which are in fact regional variants. Different, yet the same. They can interbreed.

Would this eventually lead to a new species? Under the right conditions probably.

You put your credentials in your sig. You should know that the influenva virus has variants, but it is still the influenza virus. My friends at Cold Spring Harbor, and the NIH haven't called me and said that there is a new "species" of virus.

You can beat up on the creationists if you like, but the whole OP's tongue in cheek slam isn't really a basis for valid criticism.

 

[MAW1082]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Doesn't anyone know science here?

Natural selection is NOT evolution. The virus is still the influenza virus, not a bacteria. Many against evolution think that organisms can adapt without becoming a seperate species.

Personally evolution makes sense to me, but "this guy" is as ignorant as the anti evolutionists.

Incorrect.

These are the tenets of evolution

1. Semi-stable genetic code


+ the MAIN 3 +
2. Diversity
3. Selective pressure
4. Inheritable traits

... these translate into

4. Natural selection based on mutable characteristics that offer reproductive advantages, due to environmental adaptation.

... out of which follows

5. Change in the overall characteristics of an organism, which offer it a reproductive advantage in a particular habitat or environment.

5 = Evolution

P.S. Please don't buy into the whole micro- vs. macro-evolution nonsense. It's just utter crap, perpetuated by the creationists to subvert those who are too smart and educated to accept creationism per se, yet who still long for the comforts of a world explained by religion.

er, no.

For example, there are birds which were considered to be seperate species which are in fact regional variants. Different, yet the same. They can interbreed.

Would this eventually lead to a new species? Under the right conditions probably.

You put your credentials in your sig. You should know that the influenva virus has variants, but it is still the influenza virus. My friends at Cold Spring Harbor, and the NIH haven't called me and said that there is a new "species" of virus.

You can beat up on the creationists if you like, but the whole OP's tongue in cheek slam isn't really a basis for valid criticism.

Before two species completely diverge on different evolutionary paths they maintain a high degree of similarity . . .

What I think you're referring to is the theory that evolution is driven by drastic change rather than gradual change. Both theories may be correct; however, both are a different means to the same end (aka evolution and different species).

Consider the birds you used as an example. Initially, when they were separated by geographaphical barriers, they would have still been identical species. As time goes by, different traits would be selected for and against by nature because they would be living in different environments. Eventually (maybe millions of years) these birds would almost definitely become completely different species.

Furthermore, the process of evolution is different in microscopic organisms than in macroscopic due to the reproductive cycle. A microscopic organism may go through thousands more generations in the time it takes for a generation in the macroscopic organism.

It's Evolution Baby!

 

[thraashman]

I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that viruses do not meet the requirements to be considered living things. So argue all you want about evolution and viruses, it doesn't really work out to mean anything.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: thraashman
I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that viruses do not meet the requirements to be considered living things. So argue all you want about evolution and viruses, it doesn't really work out to mean anything.

Nobody is talking about viruses actually. Either way, they are a special group, because they are obligatory parasites. And they certainly do meet all criteria to be living thigs, as soon as you add the part of their life cycle that happens within the host.

How about (in order):
- Bacteria
- Fungi
- Yeast
- Protozoa

 

[Tom]

science humor sucks.

 

[OrganizedChaos]

back when the smallpox vaccine came out the catholics protested it for interfering with gods will.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
back when the smallpox vaccine came out the catholics protested it for interfering with gods will.

It's the same people who are now in Africa, telling the villagers that the condoms which WHO is supplying them with will cause them to become sterile.

 

[sweetpea70512]

Originally posted by: MAW1082
I heard this one the other night and I really like it!

Each year the influenza virus evolves and each year it becomes resistant to more and more drugs. The flu virus is an example of evolution in action . . .

So this guy on the Colbert Report put forth an interesting idea:

Each person who receives a flu shot should have to sign a contract pledging that they believe in evolution, or else they are denied the vaccine.

If you don't believe in evolution, then you don't believe the flu virus can become resistant to drugs and therefore you have no need for the new vaccine.

My only addition would be that each person should be allowed to receive a vaccine once in his or her lifetime without signing the pledge. After that, you better sign to survive! Ha! Ha! Haha! Ha!

I have never had a flu shot and I am surviving quite nicely thank you. But then I believe in evolution anyway, I think the flu shots weaken our natural immune systems...that is why more and more people die from influenza.

 

[chcarnage]

Originally posted by: thraashman
I'm surprised no one has brought up the fact that viruses do not meet the requirements to be considered living things. So argue all you want about evolution and viruses, it doesn't really work out to mean anything.

They're not considered living things because they can't procreate without a host cell. But these tiny bits of genetic information still obey the evolution mechanics: Random mutations and natural selection (competition to enter and procreate in a host cell).

Why are influenza viruses that widespread? Their genome and thus their surface changes fast and this allows them to trick the human immune system: They adapt to their environment. Bingo! Evolution.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: MAW1082
I heard this one the other night and I really like it!

Each year the influenza virus evolves and each year it becomes resistant to more and more drugs. The flu virus is an example of evolution in action . . .

So this guy on the Colbert Report put forth an interesting idea:

Each person who receives a flu shot should have to sign a contract pledging that they believe in evolution, or else they are denied the vaccine.

If you don't believe in evolution, then you don't believe the flu virus can become resistant to drugs and therefore you have no need for the new vaccine.

My only addition would be that each person should be allowed to receive a vaccine once in his or her lifetime without signing the pledge. After that, you better sign to survive! Ha! Ha! Haha! Ha!

I have never had a flu shot and I am surviving quite nicely thank you. But then I believe in evolution anyway, I think the flu shots weaken our natural immune systems...that is why more and more people die from influenza.

Errrrr explain that?

I work in a hospital I got my flu shot on the basis that it being winter and the number of flu cases we deal with, it's probably worth it to save myself from getting sick or getting others sick depending on the flu strain of course

 

[jhu]

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
back when the smallpox vaccine came out the catholics protested it for interfering with gods will.

the same was said of epidural anesthesia for labor when it was introduced. women must feel the pain of childbirth because its tradition.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: MAW1082
I heard this one the other night and I really like it!

Each year the influenza virus evolves and each year it becomes resistant to more and more drugs. The flu virus is an example of evolution in action . . .

So this guy on the Colbert Report put forth an interesting idea:

Each person who receives a flu shot should have to sign a contract pledging that they believe in evolution, or else they are denied the vaccine.

If you don't believe in evolution, then you don't believe the flu virus can become resistant to drugs and therefore you have no need for the new vaccine.

My only addition would be that each person should be allowed to receive a vaccine once in his or her lifetime without signing the pledge. After that, you better sign to survive! Ha! Ha! Haha! Ha!

I have never had a flu shot and I am surviving quite nicely thank you. But then I believe in evolution anyway, I think the flu shots weaken our natural immune systems...that is why more and more people die from influenza.

The people who are dying from influenza are the elderly or very young. Statistically, those elderly who take the flu shot, are less likely to die of flu.

And how does it weaken your immune system? It helps your immune system by adding another flu that it can identify and fight off. The way the immune system works is that it fights off a virus and learns from it, so the next time the virus comes back, it's better equip to fight it off. Unfortunately this means that in the time it's learning how to fight it, you're getting sick of it (ie the fever you get is your system fighting it). What a vaccine does is it introduces a minute amount of the virus, or a virus that's been made harmless but that your body can still adapt to, so your body can learn to fight it without you getting sick.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: MAW1082
I heard this one the other night and I really like it!

Each year the influenza virus evolves and each year it becomes resistant to more and more drugs. The flu virus is an example of evolution in action . . .

So this guy on the Colbert Report put forth an interesting idea:

Each person who receives a flu shot should have to sign a contract pledging that they believe in evolution, or else they are denied the vaccine.

If you don't believe in evolution, then you don't believe the flu virus can become resistant to drugs and therefore you have no need for the new vaccine.

My only addition would be that each person should be allowed to receive a vaccine once in his or her lifetime without signing the pledge. After that, you better sign to survive! Ha! Ha! Haha! Ha!

I have never had a flu shot and I am surviving quite nicely thank you. But then I believe in evolution anyway, I think the flu shots weaken our natural immune systems...that is why more and more people die from influenza.

The people who are dying from influenza are the elderly or very young. Statistically, those elderly who take the flu shot, are less likely to die of flu.

And how does it weaken your immune system? It helps your immune system by adding another flu that it can identify and fight off. The way the immune system works is that it fights off a virus and learns from it, so the next time the virus comes back, it's better equip to fight it off. Unfortunately this means that in the time it's learning how to fight it, you're getting sick of it (ie the fever you get is your system fighting it). What a vaccine does is it introduces a minute amount of the virus, or a virus that's been made harmless but that your body can still adapt to, so your body can learn to fight it without you getting sick.

If only everyone had this level of understanding of the immune system and vaccinations... Sure, you've got a few details wrong (i.e. the flu vaccine is actually purified viral proteins, rather than whole virus), but your overall grasp of the general principles is spot-on.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: sweetpea70512

Originally posted by: MAW1082
I heard this one the other night and I really like it!

Each year the influenza virus evolves and each year it becomes resistant to more and more drugs. The flu virus is an example of evolution in action . . .

So this guy on the Colbert Report put forth an interesting idea:

Each person who receives a flu shot should have to sign a contract pledging that they believe in evolution, or else they are denied the vaccine.

If you don't believe in evolution, then you don't believe the flu virus can become resistant to drugs and therefore you have no need for the new vaccine.

My only addition would be that each person should be allowed to receive a vaccine once in his or her lifetime without signing the pledge. After that, you better sign to survive! Ha! Ha! Haha! Ha!

I have never had a flu shot and I am surviving quite nicely thank you. But then I believe in evolution anyway, I think the flu shots weaken our natural immune systems...that is why more and more people die from influenza.

The people who are dying from influenza are the elderly or very young. Statistically, those elderly who take the flu shot, are less likely to die of flu.

And how does it weaken your immune system? It helps your immune system by adding another flu that it can identify and fight off. The way the immune system works is that it fights off a virus and learns from it, so the next time the virus comes back, it's better equip to fight it off. Unfortunately this means that in the time it's learning how to fight it, you're getting sick of it (ie the fever you get is your system fighting it). What a vaccine does is it introduces a minute amount of the virus, or a virus that's been made harmless but that your body can still adapt to, so your body can learn to fight it without you getting sick.

If only everyone had this level of understanding of the immune system and vaccinations... Sure, you've got a few details wrong (i.e. the flu vaccine is actually purified viral proteins, rather than whole virus), but your overall grasp of the general principles is spot-on.

Now if only more people could understand the HIV virus and how it attacks the immune system and really disables your immune system I'd be a happier nurse (And how in consequence it is so hard to develop an effective working Vaccine and/or cure for it.)

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Now if only more people could understand the HIV virus and how it attacks the immune system and really disables your immune system I'd be a happier nurse

I think you'd settle for people not knowing, but listening, understanding, and believing you when you explain it to them. Heh.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Now if only more people could understand the HIV virus and how it attacks the immune system and really disables your immune system I'd be a happier nurse

I think you'd settle for people not knowing, but listening, understanding, and believing you when you explain it to them. Heh.

That too.

And making it cost effective for all the poor and homeless who have it....especially since I work in an inner city hospital.