Florida Voters, Read this!!!!

I'm Typing

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
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We are in the middle of what could be a huge voting problem in Florida. If you are voting in Florida, or have yet to vote, check this out:

The layout of the holes in the ballot is set up so that if you are not careful, you could try to vote for Gore and end up voting for Pat Buchanan!!!

The layout of the ballot is a 2-page spread with the holes to punch running down the center. The Republican party is listed 1st, so Bush has nothing to be concerned aboutbecause he is the top hole. Gore is listed under Bush on the left side, but over on the right side is Pat Buchanan. So, those who plan to vote for Gore need to make sure that they punch the 3rd hole, not the 2nd.

All kidding aside, folks...it looks like Bush might take Florida because people are not looking at the ballot closely enough!

So be careful!

I will be EXTREMELY interested in seeing how many votes Buchanan gets in Florida...this is scary.

UPDATE
If you experienced difficulty voting yesterday, Florida State Attorney
Bob Butterworth is accepting written complaints describing your
situation. His FAX number is: 954-712-4657. Please keep submittals
serious.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,272
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Yah, sure, Bush will take Florida because people don't look at their ballot carefully enough ;) I think that speaks volumes about the kind of voters that (try to) vote for Bore down there :D
 

dc

Diamond Member
Nov 26, 1999
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haha, would be funny if buchanan got a bunch of votes in florida. smart people. :)
 

Tripleshot

Elite Member
Jan 29, 2000
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Watching the news of the ballots they were using in Florida,I concure. That is the same here in Utah,and I had a machine pulled from the booths for lining up the punch with one party,yet when you punched according to the booklet layout,you would be punching into an entirely different candidate.. The voting judge pulled the machine,but I would say there is a possibility of voter fraud going on using that type of machine and it needs to be investigated in Florida and here in Utah. pissed me off!!

How many of these machines are in use and punching out votes other than what the voter intended?:|
 

I'm Typing

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Hmmm...Russ, looks like you can laugh all you want...but if Buchanan gets a significant amount of votes in florida (read: more than 1%), I would be inclined to think that something has gone horribly wrong here. Of course, given the Bush family tradition of lying, and stealing anything is possible.

Spin??? Bull$hit! This has more to do with trying to pull a fast one than it has to do with "spin."
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Haha, who exactly is "pulling a fast one?"

Like I said, it must be a vast right wing conspiracy. Or maybe it was space aliens.


Edit: I spel gud.
 

Russ

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
21,093
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BoberFett,

The latter is just as likely as the former. Well, at least the libs are planning ahead with their excuses.

Russ, NCNE
 

I'm Typing

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
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...And now, they are going to have to do a recount. A Palm Beach Law firm is taking depositions starting in the next couple of days from people who feel they were defrauded by the state out of their votes for Gore.

Interesting how GW was so calm about "losing" Florida when all the exit polls gave it to Gore? Almost like he "knew" something?

"Other" Candidates + Buchanan got around a Million Votes in Florida...you have to wonder if the screwy ballot had anything to do with that.
 

Total Refected Power

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
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Ballot positioning is something that all candidates feel is very important. This is not an insignificant issue in a tight race. Yes, it may say something about the voters but if they are elderly it may be confusing. I thought I heard that a lot of the people were Jewish seniors who "voted" for Buchcanan. I think not! Interesting, no?

Still, it was Gore's election to lose. Shouldn't have come to this.
 

FettsBabe

Diamond Member
Oct 21, 1999
3,708
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Sure, Bush's campaign put the voting booths in the rooms, and tampered with the cards, and data. Keep dreaming. ;)

BTW, people with take depositions and sue for anything these days, therefore that doesn't really surprise me.

Hell, why don't they just have everyone who voted re-vote? Of course, only the people who voted could participate. Then we could settle "once and for all" this crap about "fixed booths" in Florida. If it was fixed we should throw the "book" at those assholes.
 

MrBond

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
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I could be wrong here, but I seem to remember my Democracy teacher telling us in HS that when the ballots were printed, they alternated between the two top parties as who would be on top of the ballot. I can't really see this as working in Ohio, b/c they just give us punch cards, which we stick in a book in the booth, so each person doesn't get a different list of candidates. It is possible, however, that each booth's list is different, but again, I could be wrong.

For the record, I voted for Bush, only because I don't feel I can trust Gore, especially when he says they won't take firearms from us law abiding owners. Never once did he say he wouldn't force registration.....which anyone who's watched similar events in other countries, will tell you thats the first step towards confenscation. And I'm sure I spelled that wrong :)

I just find it interesting that there's such a huge outcry over this. If anything, it's Bush who almost got shafted on the votes. Of course, if the opposite was true, ie, Bush in the losing position right now (10:00a EST), I'd be wondering the same thing you Gore supporters are.

How many of you think that all these claims of fraud will go away if(when?) Gore wins the presidency?
 

AndrewR

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Well, it's a good thing that the Republicans rigged the voting cards because it offsets all those dead people voting for Gore.

LOL!
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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The ballot WAS poorly drawn. I suspect stupidity, not a deliberate attempt to defraud voters. If you didn't read the ballot very carefully a mistake was almost inevitable. I'm certain thousands of people with bad eyes and/or poor reading skills voted for Buchanan.

The people in Florida who voted for Nader made a big difference in the Presidential election. Here in Florida a vote for Nader WAS a vote for Bush, and Nader didn't get 5% of the vote, so he will not get matching funds.

I think, though, the main surprise is how close it was. I expected Bush to pick up at least 350 electoral votes. Who would have guessed he could lose the popular vote? :p

Very interesting election. Americans did the right thing by coming out to vote in such large numbers. Democracy has been reinvigorated, even if a complete idiot has been elected President.
 

Cknyc

Golden Member
Oct 10, 1999
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I remember hearing the allegations of the voting booth problems very early yesterday, Even when Gore had Florida. It was not fabricated at the end of the ellection.
 

Total Refected Power

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
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Yes, I agree. I don't believe that there was any intention do defraud. Just bad ballot design. I have voted in three different states over the years and each time the system as well as the ballot was different. So I can see were people who are elderly could have voted incorrectly.
 

MrBond

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2000
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Ahh, ok. That's easy to understand, though. I do tend to think that the ballot in Florida should be reworked for the numerous old timers if that is going to be a problem (ie. Difficulty to read). I'm sure they have "large print" ballots available, but many people wouldn't ask for them out of pride (the same reason many older people who shouldn't be driving are). So if everyone was just given the "easy to read" version, there should be less confusion.
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
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I have see that ballot and although It is possible that someone may get confused if their a complete imbecile I don't think it was intentional and I don't think that there were that many errors. I think if someone screwed up their ballot it is no ones fault but their own for not taking the time to carefully read their ballot. I carefully read every page of mine to make certain I made no mistakes. casting my ballot correctly is my responsibility.
 

Orbius

Golden Member
Oct 13, 1999
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I dont think it was intentional but it could be the difference. In some traditionally Democratic counties, its reported that Buchanan got many thousands more votes than was anticipated so who knows what happened.

Then of course theres the absentee and overseas ballots. Either way after a recount its going to be incredibly close.

This should be a moot point of course because Gore won the popular vote.

 

Capn

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2000
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Buchanan got 17k votes total. I heard that he got 40 votes in some democratic counties, I think the many thousands more thing is incorrect. If people can't figure out how to punch a hole on the card why should they be deciding who the next president is.
 

Total Refected Power

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
3,899
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Capn:

If it is seniors, give them a break. My grandmother sometimes gets flustered at the simplest of tasks for you and me. Age has a way of robbing you of things you take for granted in your youth.
 

~zonker~

Golden Member
Jan 23, 2000
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_Florida Results (CNN)__

Bush..... 2,909,136. 49%
Gore..... 2,907,331. 49%
Nader....... 96,698.. 2%
Browne...... 18,842.. 0%
Buchanan.... 17,327.. 0%

I don't care how poorly the ballot is lasd out. If there were really a conspiracy to shift votes from Gore to Buchanon, I have to imagine it would have amounted to more than the .03% of the vote Buchanon got ;)
 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
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Actually, its already happened (I just saw it on the news), apparently 2000 retired jews were voting for Gore & they were accidently made out for Buchanen.

It seems with this case & the case of all those iffy Cuban voters (apparently some had voted twice or weren't even qualified to vote in the first place, or something), it looks like the courts might have to work out whos going to win. Especially as it appears that some electoral college members may cross the floor & go with the popular vote (but I think the media just talking that hypothetical up way past the odds of it actually happening).
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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Zonker:

Buchanan has almost zero support here in Florida. If he has family in Dade County, they MAY have voted for him. No one else down there would. 17K votes is huge. Many of those came from Central Florida, I'm sure. I actually saw two Buchanan signs here in Orlando! I have no doubt that many older and illiterate people voted for Buchanan or otherwise bollixed the ballot. It happens every election because the process is needlessly complex and the forms are printed in 2 point type...or it seems that way. I remember squinting at the ballot and thinking "Sheesh!".

Given the quality of the reading and writing on this board, who are we to complain about some "average" people and senior citizens having a problem reading the ballot? I think some of you aren't being realistic or very kind.

Anyway, the Nader vote made a big difference here in Florida, and thus, in the national election.