Florida makes smartphones and computers illegal!

[waggy]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/09/tech/gaming-gadgets/florida-slot-machine-law/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

CNN) -- Did Florida just accidentally make all computers and smartphones illegal?

The state recently passed a bill to crack down on gambling in Internet cafes. In a potentially unfortunate twist for anyone using a computer or smartphone in the state, a new lawsuit alleges the wording on the bill is so broad that it could be interpreted as a ban on any device connected to the Internet.

A new bill passed two months ago by the Florida legislature expanded the definition of a "slot machine" so that it would include regular computers being used as makeshift slot machines, closing a loophole in state laws that legislators said allowed some gambling centers to operate as Internet cafes and adult arcades.

The crackdown was kicked off by a multi-year investigation of a number of Florida gambling cafes that were masquerading as part of a charitable organization. It resulted in more than 50 arrests, the resignation of Florida Lt. Governor Jennifer Carroll and the new bill banning Internet cafes.
"There are unintended consequences of hastily passed legislation in the wake of a scandal," said attorney Justin Kaplan, whose firm Kluger, Kaplan, Silverman, Katzen & Levine is representing the plaintiff in the suit.




hahahaha oops.

so how long before they go back and change it?

 

[Genx87]

Oh look knee jerk legislation biting people in the ass again.

 

[xBiffx]

Florida's new, expanded definition of a slot machine includes "any machine or device or system or network of devices" used to play games of chance or skill, which can be activated by not just inserting money, but an "account number, code, or other object or information."

Most games on computer and cell phone don't require a payment every time you play the game. Rather its a one time payment to "purchase" the game, not necessarily play it. I think this is perhaps the key to this whole mess.

 

[Jaskalas]

Most games on computer and cell phone don't require a payment every time you play the game. Rather its a one time payment to "purchase" the game, not necessarily play it. I think this is perhaps the key to this whole mess.

not just inserting money, but an "account number, code, or other object or information."

Seems they went further than money or payment.

 

[xBiffx]

Seems they went further than money or payment.

Right, but you usually don't have to do those either every time you play a game on a computer or cell phone. You may do that once, but not every time you play a game.

 

[waggy]

Right, but you usually don't have to do those either every time you play a game on a computer or cell phone. You may do that once, but not every time you play a game.

I don't think it matters that it is every time. just the fact you can.

 

[xBiffx]

I don't think it matters that it is every time. just the fact you can.

But in order to play a betting "game" like a slot machine, you have to insert money or information (account number) for every spin (game). Not that you can, but you must do this every time.

To play a game on a computer or cell phone usually you do not. Some games require you to log in but you can play as many games as you want. You don't have to insert something every time you want to play a new game, round, match, etc.

Subtle but there is a difference.

 

[xBiffx]

Don't get me wrong. This whole thing is absolute stupidity on the part of the lawmakers in Florida. I am just trying to come up with some loopholes that may get around it.

 

[woolfe9998]

This is the entire relevant text:

As used in this chapter, the term "slot machine or device" means any machine or device or system or network of devices... that is adapted for use in such a way that, upon activation... such device or system is directly or indirectly caused to operate or may be operated and if the user, whether by application of skill or by reason of any element of chance or any other outcome unpredictable by the user him or her, may....
(a) Receive or become entitled to receive any piece of money, credit, allowance, or thing of value, or any check, slug, token, or memorandum, whether of value or otherwise, which may be exchanged for any money, credit, allowance, or thing of value or which may be given in trade; or

(b) Secure additional chances or rights to use such machine, apparatus, or device, even though the device or system may be available for free play or, in addition to any element of chance or unpredictable outcome of such operation, may also sell, deliver, or present some merchandise, indication of weight, entertainment, or other thing of value. The term “slot machine or device” includes, but is not limited to, devices regulated as slot machines pursuant to chapter 551.

https://www.techdirt.com/blog/?tag=gambling+devices

First of all, it's nearly impossible to track it grammatically. It's incoherent. Second, yes, it is retardedly over-broad.

 

[unokitty]

Florida: 'A Paradise Of Scandals'

"This is how Hiaasen describes Florida: "The Sunshine State is a paradise of scandals teeming with drifters, deadbeats, and misfits drawn here by some dark primordial calling like demented trout. And you'd be surprised how many of them decide to run for public office."

Still true?

"Yeah, very true. More true than ever I think. The opportunities for corruption are many here," says Hiaasen. "But the one thing about Florida politicians, the crooked ones that I still find somewhat heartwarming, is that they're not very sophisticated."

In fact, most of them still take cash. You could hold a film festival of all the undercover sting operations and perp walks involving public officials.
...
Hiaasen says any politician without handcuff marks on his wrists is considered an elder statesman. He called one Miami mayor "a slagheap of mediocrity." And he called the Florida state legislature "a festival of whores."

Carl Hiaasen

I only lived in Florida for 5 or 6 years. And I don't know if it was the old people driving slow, the Cubans, the cocaine cowboys, the rednecks, or the corrupt politicians but I always found it entertaining.

Or, as Mr. Hiaasen has observed:
"I think in the old days, the nexus of weirdness ran through Southern California, and to a degree New York City. I think it's changed so that every bizarre story in the country now has a Florida connection. I don't know why, except it must be some inversion of magnetic poles or something."

Uno

 

[BoberFett]

Remember, politicians are our best and brightest, and we should defer to their wisdom.

Let them manage our schools, our medical care, our retirement, our lives. They know what they're doing.

 

[Slew Foot]

floriduh strikes again

 

[Wreckem]

This is the entire relevant text:



https://www.techdirt.com/blog/?tag=gambling+devices

First of all, it's nearly impossible to track it grammatically. It's incoherent. Second, yes, it is retardedly over-broad.

Its broad but it certainly does NOT make computers or anything the OP said illegal.

There are some key words in that legislation that people are overlooking.

1. "that is adapted for use in such a way that"

2. sections a and b

 

[BoberFett]

Do you think that means physically adapted? Software adapts a computer for any given purpose. That's the whole point. They used overly broad language to try to avoid any loopholes and this is the result.

 

[Wreckem]

This bill requires it to be adapted AND allow the chance to pay out under subsection a or b.

I have no clue how yall/the media are interperting this as banning any device capable of being adapted. Because it clearly does not do that.

Its called statutory construction.

Is it terribly written? Yes. Does it make all computers/electronic devices illegal. No.

 

[simpletron]

Its broad but it certainly does NOT make computers or anything the OP said illegal.

There are some key words in that legislation that people are overlooking.

1. "that is adapted for use in such a way that"

2. sections a and b

While I'm no legal expert, but the act of installing a game could be interpreted as "that is adapted for use in such a way that" and in-game currency or items could be interpreted as "thing of value". If both those are true then just about every computer/smartphone that has installed a game would be illegal.

 

[Wreckem]

Let me pick apart three things in the CNN article.

1. When they purchased time on one of the machines they could use the computer to see if they'd won anything. The lawsuit compares these "sweepstakes drawings" to common company contests such as McDonald's Monopoly game.

Sorry, this guys "sweepstakes" is not the same as McDonald's monopoly game. The monopoly game is a game promotion and has to follow the laws regarding game promotions. I doubt this guys "sweepstakes" follows the law on game promotions.

2. For example, a recent Bud Light advertising campaign shows a man entering a code from a case of beer into his smartphone to see if he won a prize from the company. "Clearly you have a device which is activated by input of a code that indirectly, by any element of chance, entitles you to a payout," said Kaplan of the contest.

BZZT wrong. This is clearly a game promotion, which is still permissible under other state statutes.

3. Anyone can walk into a public library and use its computers to participate in a March Madness contest, such as Yahoo's annual Tourney Pick 'em, which offers a grand prize of $10,000. According to Kaplan, the owner of that network of computers could be in trouble for running illegal slot machines.

Again, a game promotion, which is permissible under other state statues.

The statute, atleast to me, disallows using/adapting any electronic device to be used for illegal gaming. You have to read various statutes together.

When it comes to arcades getting caught up in this bill, that is the bigger issue IMHO. The statute only allows for arcade games costing .75 or less to give tickets redeemable for merchandise(being defined as novelties and toys). I haven't been to an arcade in a while but I am positive most machines are well above that $.75 threshold. That section needs to be re-worked for sure because most arcades will have to close because of that .75 per game limit.

The legislature does need to go back and rework the bill, but the bill clearly DOES NOT make all computers/electronic devices/smart phones illegal.

Regardless of the lawsuit, the internet cafe's owner is still unlikely to prevail on his internet cafe raid, because even without this statute, what he was doing was likely illegal under other statutes. You can't give away a chance for money/prizes with the purchase of consumers goods or services unless you follow the state law that allows for doing so. Somehow I don't think he did. If he offered a valid game promotion, its unlikely he would have been raided. Furthermore, if he could SHOW he was running a valid game promotion(by following state law) that would have been the rebuttable evidence necessary to not fall under the recently passed statute.

 

[sandorski]

Someone should check Florida Law and see if hot Female Teachers are supposed to sex up their students....it would explain a few things.

 

[Spungo]

Oh look knee jerk legislation biting people in the ass again.

That's what happens when the government tries to overstep its bounds and attack specific things for logically inconsistent reasons. They didn't just get the definition of gambling machine wrong, but they got the definition of gambling wrong as well. If you read it a second time, you'll notice that it bans certain video games:

such device or system ...., whether by application of skill or by reason of any element of chance or any other outcome unpredictable by the user him or her, may....
(a) Receive or become entitled to receive any piece of money, credit, allowance, or thing of value, or any check, slug, token, or memorandum, whether of value or otherwise, which may be exchanged for any money, credit, allowance, or thing of value or which may be given in trade; or

(b) Secure additional .. rights to use such machine

World of Warcraft and the servers used to play it = illegal. It's a game where you use a combination of skill and luck to win "things of value" which may be traded or sold (having more stuff makes your account more valuable when you legally sell it on ebay, and you can trade them at the in-game auction house for other things of value).
This also makes arcade games illegal. You put money into a machine, use a combination of skill and luck to win a high score that everyone else can see, or what the law would call "memorandum, whether of value or otherwise"
You know how arcade games let you play longer if you apply skill and are lucky? That's illegal. The machine is not allowed to give you additional credits or play time in response to anything you are doing or not doing. The game needs to be on a timer. When it ends, it ends.


This mistake would make a good school assignment. Think of something you want to ban, anything at all, describe it as specific as possible, check if it would accidentally ban other things. Write a paragraph explaining how easy or difficult it was to effectively ban what you wanted to ban. It would be nice to hammer that idea into people so they understand that banning things in a legal sense is not as simple as it seems. It sounds easy to ban gambling, but what is gambling? You could accidentally ban arcade games if you suck at defining what gambling is.

 

[Wreckem]

That's what happens when the government tries to overstep its bounds and attack specific things for logically inconsistent reasons. They didn't just get the definition of gambling machine wrong, but they got the definition of gambling wrong as well. If you read it a second time, you'll notice that it bans certain video games:


World of Warcraft and the servers used to play it = illegal. It's a game where you use a combination of skill and luck to win "things of value" which may be traded or sold (having more stuff makes your account more valuable when you legally sell it on ebay, and you can trade them at the in-game auction house for other things of value).
This also makes arcade games illegal. You put money into a machine, use a combination of skill and luck to win a high score that everyone else can see, or what the law would call "memorandum, whether of value or otherwise"
You know how arcade games let you play longer if you apply skill and are lucky? That's illegal. The machine is not allowed to give you additional credits or play time in response to anything you are doing or not doing. The game needs to be on a timer. When it ends, it ends.


This mistake would make a good school assignment. Think of something you want to ban, anything at all, describe it as specific as possible, check if it would accidentally ban other things. Write a paragraph explaining how easy or difficult it was to effectively ban what you wanted to ban. It would be nice to hammer that idea into people so they understand that banning things in a legal sense is not as simple as it seems. It sounds easy to ban gambling, but what is gambling? You could accidentally ban arcade games if you suck at defining what gambling is.

You obviously didn't read the bill.

You also clearly don't understand the legal status of virtual in game items.

And no one has read the statute this revised.

 

[Gintaras]

Remember, politicians are our best and brightest, and we should defer to their wisdom.

Let them manage our schools, our medical care, our retirement, our lives. They know what they're doing.

What are you thinking when you do elect them?

Don't blame politicians, blame people who do elect them. And when people do elect some crook - people get what they deserve - a crook...

I don't understand, why people in so called democracy, do complain about politicians...
In Democracy, a politician is a Public Servant? isn't it so. A servant is someone, who did you hire to do some work, like housekeeping, babysitting...
If you not satisfied with his/her work, you could fire that person.
People who you hire to serve you - you deceide how much will get paid for their work. Isn't it so?

If a politician you do elect and you do choose as "public servant", public should decide, what will they get paid and what jobs to do....In Democracy...

If someone tell you how much will they take from your pocket and they will choose what to do or not - is it a Democracy? Are they so-called public servants?

From here and on...it starts a dictatorship...When a "public servant" will start to dictate you and nothing you can do about...

Dictatorships can be different...it can be one person or several going in circles for the same office...And they always win...and you nothing can do about...just to complain without any answer....

Anyway, what is a Democracy? A term to fool people in? Just like churches do about Religion and god?

Human species supposedly are intelligent species on this Planet...Apparently, they aren't...
In most cases humans with so-called brains can't even think...for themselves...
Humans can create technologies...but at the same time, human can be as stupid as flies...
Remember :"Intel Inside - Idiot Outside"....
If you look outside yourself, Nature, Animals - these are prolly more intelligent species than humans are.
How do you explain, that in Thailand Tsunami no animals died, just some - over 200,000 of human species? Why "stupid" animals survived and intelligent humans died?

I could talk about on and on...I do have a lot of questions to those, who don't like politicians but go and elect them...etc...etc...no time to type here...

How about:
-To think, who are you
-What do you want(besides iPhone)

Thesre are a lot questions that anyone could ask and answer to themselves...including about politicians....