Flobots - Handlebars (Israeli Version)

[kylebisme]

I just stumbled across this video, which sums up the situation in Israel and Palestine far better than anything I'm guessing many here have seen. Comments from the Israeli activist who passed it along to the site here:

Today is Tish'a B'Av, the day on the Hebrew calendar that Jews all over the world commemorate the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem because of baseless hatred. So it's especially ironic that his past week we witnessed no less than FOUR new laws [three] proposed and [one] passed in the Israeli Knesset that are outrageously anti-democratic in nature:

1. Stripping an Arab parliamentarian of her privileges for her non-violent activism
2. Narrowly defining who is considered a Jew, and therefore able to access state privileges
3. Requiring a loyalty oath to a supremacist ideology in order to receive state privileges
4. Criminalizing free speech that advocates divestment from the occupation

Under these circumstances, it is nearly impossible to not feel inexorably swept towards total fascism. Combining the dystopic art of local artist Yosi Even Kama with the video for the Flobots' song "Handlebars" approaches a sense of the fear and frustration that the peace and justice camp is currently experiencing in Israel.

Since many here seem unfamiliar with the reality of the situation in Israel and Palestine, I hope the video and comments from the Israeli activist might promote productive discussion and further understanding.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Orignal Earl likes this :thumbsup:
163 people like this

Your posts always are informative and while go against the grain of most people here, I really am glad you stick to your guns and show the other side so often.

 

[kylebisme]

Thank you for the kind words Earl.

By the way, one can find another informative music video from an Israeli artist here.

 

[linkgoron]

2,3 and 4 have not yet passed.

2 - this has not passed yet. it's not a law about defining who is a jew, but defining who has the authority to convert a non-jew into a jew. It's also a big issue in Israel, and nobody knows if this will pass.

3 - this also has not passed yet.
The new regulations also contain a substantive change for potential citizens, who until now have been required to "swear loyalty to the State of Israel." The new restrictions would require them to "swear loyalty to a Jewish and democratic state, and vow to abide by its laws."
This is a big issue as well.

4 - wtf? There is no such law.

 

[OCGuy]

I get it. Teh jooz did 9/11.

Your threads are all coming together!

 

[kylebisme]

2,3 and 4 have not yet passed.

Right, the fist one passed, and the other three are proposed.

this has not passed yet. it's not a law about defining who is a jew, but defining who has the authority to convert a non-jew into a jew.

It would further limit who qualifies as a Jew under Israel's "right of return" law, which other Israeli laws refer back to as a means of denying privileges to those who do not qualify as Jews under that law.

Edit:I figure I should elaborate on this too, as you seemed to miss the point:

The new restrictions would require them to "swear loyalty to a Jewish and democratic state, and vow to abide by its laws."

That's a supremacist ideology, an ethnocratic state which disingenuously claims to be a democracy, akin to if white people got together in the US to make minorities "swear loyalty to a white and democratic state, and vow to abide by its laws."

wtf? There is no such law.

There's one currently proposed.

I get it. Teh jooz did 9/11.

Your threads are all coming together!

Rather, you're a scatterbrained freak who gets caught up in his own delusions, as evidenced by my recent refutation of "teh Jooz did 9/11" argument in the comments here.

 

[Tristicus]

Orignal Earl likes this :thumbsup:
163 people like this

Your posts always are informative and while go against the grain of most people here, I really am glad you stick to your guns and show the other side so often.

Lo fucking l.

 

[Freshgeardude]

oh I get it kylebisme.


You post 4 laws which your article claims were proposed AND passed, but when you get called out that the person is wrong then you correct yourself. Awesome. You are trying to get the max sympathy from people.

Next time, dont post laws that are simply proposed, although not passed.


I bet I can find plenty of horrendous laws PROPOSED in the US, but I dont see you posting every time it is suggested.

 

[kylebisme]

You post 4 laws which your article claims were proposed AND passed, but when you get called out that the person is wrong then you correct yourself.

I figure he meant it like "four fruits apples and oranges", and while I agree that is poor phrasing, it wasn't my words so I can't rightly correct myself on it.

I bet I can find plenty of horrendous laws PROPOSED in the US...

Do it, I want to see what you come up with.

 

[Lemon law]

If nothing else, this thread show exactly how out of touch with reality Israeli is.

As extremists in charge of Israeli politics keep trying the push Israel ever further to the right. On one hand, Israel is the hypothetical 800 pound mid east Gorilla with the military power to do whatever it diddly darn pleases, and the Palestinians have no military power beyond the mere annoyance level. It still defaults to Israel being the 800 pound Gorilla.

But as Israeli extremists get ever more arrogant, the question becomes, are they crusin for a brusin. As Israel becomes the number one destabilizing force in the mid-east, and worse yet, no use to any other nation on Earth. After 43 years of holding on to disputed land Israel cannot own, Israeli excuses are wearing very thin.

But face the facts, its been past USA Presidents that have taught Israel they can get away with anything. And now that time may be ending.

And if the world and also the USA are committed to a viable Palestinian State in the next two or three years, the somewhat hat trick will be to dope slap the Israeli extremists while building up the power of more reasonable Israeli moderates.

Will it take an world wise Israeli economic embargo?

 

[Freshgeardude]

LL I love how dilusional you are. I love how you think the world hates israel. I love how you think the world is slowly turning its back on israel. I love how you think Israel will end up being embargoed.

I LOVE HOW YOU THINK ISRAEL is "no use to any nation on Earth" LOLOLOLOLOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saeky9I5T9c

pretty sure that doesnt even touch the tip of the iceberg

I ALSO LOVE HOW YOU THINK ISRAEL IS THE REASON WE DONT HAVE PEACE IN THE MID-EAST!

Yea, that Taliban and AQ are all israel's fault right?

Iran funding and supplying weapons to hezbollah and hamas is all israel's fault?

Israel being attacked by 7 countries the day after its creation is all israel's fault right?


Once again you defend suicide bombers and bitches hiding among civilians. You try to rationalise the killing of civilians. And seriously, we have gone over this path before, because I know you are going to bring up "oh but the jewz in the west bank" yea, jews only built protective walls and checkpoints after SUICIDE BOMBERS and other TERRORISTS tried to kill CIVILIANS.

in the world of "who threw the first punch" the arabs would be first, second, and third.

you are too delusional LL, too delusional


and for the shits and giggles, here is your post incase you try to ninja edit

If nothing else, this thread show exactly how out of touch with reality Israeli is.

As extremists in charge of Israeli politics keep trying the push Israel ever further to the right. On one hand, Israel is the hypothetical 800 pound mid east Gorilla with the military power to do whatever it diddly darn pleases, and the Palestinians have no military power beyond the mere annoyance level. It still defaults to Israel being the 800 pound Gorilla.

But as Israeli extremists get ever more arrogant, the question becomes, are they crusin for a brusin. As Israel becomes the number one destabilizing force in the mid-east, and worse yet, no use to any other nation on Earth. After 43 years of holding on to disputed land Israel cannot own, Israeli excuses are wearing very thin.

But face the facts, its been past USA Presidents that have taught Israel they can get away with anything. And now that time may be ending.

And if the world and also the USA are committed to a viable Palestinian State in the next two or three years, the somewhat hat trick will be to dope slap the Israeli extremists while building up the power of more reasonable Israeli moderates.

Will it take an world wise Israeli economic embargo?

 

[Lemon law]

FGD, you are confused indeed if I do not think Israel has a right to exist, and I agree, that there was something deeply wrong with seven Arab Nations attacking Israel in 1948. But now that the Israeli right to exist is more than secured, present Israeli policy is counterproductive to world peace.

Nor do I like Al-Quida, Hezbollah, terrorism, or the Taliban any better than you do, but other than the Taliban with has little to do with Israel, Israeli injustices and arrogance attracts international terrorism like stink on shit. Face that facts, if we want to reduce terrorism in the mid-east, job one is to reduce Israeli injustices and
secure a viable mid-east peace by creating a viable Palestinian State, or failing that, Israel must assimilate the Palestinians with full voting rights.

Unless I miss my guess, the growing world consensus is that after 43 years of Israeli stalling regarding the disputed land Israel cannot retain, its time to end that by any means necessary.

Nor is a matter than I will get in a pissing contest with you, over the next few years I think you will find I am right. I will let events settle that question.

 

[nageov3t]

I am impressed by the objective, fair, and unbiased view that the video took on the subject.

 

[linkgoron]

Right, the fist one passed, and the other three are proposed.


It would further limit who qualifies as a Jew under Israel's "right of return" law, which other Israeli laws refer back to as a means of denying privileges to those who do not qualify as Jews under that law.

Edit:I figure I should elaborate on this too, as you seemed to miss the point:

That's a supremacist ideology, an ethnocratic state which disingenuously claims to be a democracy, akin to if white people got together in the US to make minorities "swear loyalty to a white and democratic state, and vow to abide by its laws."

Israel has always been a Jewish state, from day one.

There's one currently proposed.


Rather, you're a scatterbrained freak who gets caught up in his own delusions, as evidenced by my recent refutation of "teh Jooz did 9/11" argument in the comments here.

That is not a law against "Criminalizing free speech that advocates divestment from the occupation" but a law against people calling for boycotts. which is different. It's still wrong it my eyes, but it still not the same.

Basically your first post was almost 100% wrong, and 100% full of propaganda.
3 out of the 4 laws haven't passed and 3 of the 4 laws are not what you stated.

I figure he meant it like "four fruits apples and oranges", and while I agree that is poor phrasing, it wasn't my words so I can't rightly correct myself on it.

YOU started the thread from his comment. It's your thread. YOU should do some research before you start.

 

[kylebisme]

Israel has always been a Jewish state, from day one.

Sure, but requiring a loyalty oath to specificly swear alegance to the supremacist ideology Israel is based on is a new idea.

That is not a law against "Criminalizing free speech that advocates divestment from the occupation" but a law against people calling for boycotts.

Divestment is a part of boycotting, as one can't rightly boycott what one is invested in, and while the previous article I linked doesn't mention divestment specifically, others do, such as here:

A proposed bill introduced into the Israeli parliament – the Knesset – would outlaw boycotts and penalise their supporters. Individuals who initiated, encouraged or provided support or information for any boycott or divestment action would be made to pay damages to the companies affected.

Furthermore, Shin Bet has already taken an eye to Israelis involved in the BDS movement.

Basically your first post was almost 100% wrong...

Rather, while you can nitpick semantics, the descriptions of the four new laws, one passed and three proposed, are basically accurate. That said, I'll edit my OP to clarify on the proposed and passed issue.

 

[Zebo]

"Jewish state" yo, what's the problem? All Muslims should be gone after all the hostilities.

Just like a Jews are gone from Saudi a "Muslim State"

 

[Borealis7]

Israelis are so anti-democratic, they have Arab-representation in the parliament! those j00s!
the first "law" mentioned in the OP is regarding Hanin Zuabi, the parliament member who was on the Marmara. in a recent poll, over 90% of jewish israelies surveyed believe she should be impeached from parliament, and most of those even suggest throwing her in jail for participating in an activity that harmed the country's image, for meeting with terror activists, and for generally disgracing a country she had sworn an oath to when inducted into parliament. Unfortunately, she enjoys an immunity granted by her position, so that is the "public scolding" she gets for what she has done.

fuck! i sometimes hate democracy!

 

[Orignal Earl]

LL I love how dilusional you are.

But really,.. he wins in 90% of his replies

And your constant repetition of talking points makes you look dilusional

 

[Borealis7]

there is no "winning". there is the truth, and there are spins, misrepresentations, biases, and other things LL says.

 

[EagleKeeper]

FGD, you are confused indeed if I do not think Israel has a right to exist, and I agree, that there was something deeply wrong with seven Arab Nations attacking Israel in 1948. But now that the Israeli right to exist is more than secured, present Israeli policy is counterproductive to world peace.
Nor do I like Al-Quida, Hezbollah, terrorism, or the Taliban any better than you do, but other than the Taliban with has little to do with Israel, Israeli injustices and arrogance attracts international terrorism like stink on shit. Face that facts, if we want to reduce terrorism in the mid-east, job one is to reduce Israeli injustices and
secure a viable mid-east peace by creating a viable Palestinian State, or failing that, Israel must assimilate the Palestinians with full voting rights.

Unless I miss my guess, the growing world consensus is that after 43 years of Israeli stalling regarding the disputed land Israel cannot retain, its time to end that by any means necessary.

Nor is a matter than I will get in a pissing contest with you, over the next few years I think you will find I am right. I will let events settle that question.

How can Israel's right to exist be secure when you have a psuedo state that wants it wiped off the map; a country that is adjacent to it that has never agreed to peace with it and a strong economic Arab nation that wants the state of Israel removed from the maps and supports terrorist organizations intended to attack Israeli civilians.
It was attacked less than 20 years ago from what was considered the 3rd strongest military.
Then you have additional Muslim nations (some that have nukes) feel that Israel should go.

Much of Israel's "injustices" have been caused by her having to continually defend herself against enemies that refuse acept her right to exist.

Had the Arabs not attack; there would be no Palestinian problem in the begining. Or is it Israel's fault that she was attacked?

Had the Arabs not planned an attack in '67; then there would be no problem with the state of Palestine and the Jews living on the West Bank.

But again; you seem to blame Israel for what happened.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Rather, while you can nitpick semantics, the descriptions of the four new laws, one passed and three proposed, are basically accurate. That said, I'll edit my OP to clarify on the proposed and passed issue.

Yet until you were called on it; there was no indication that you would correct the blatant misrepresentation

 

[Orignal Earl]

there is no "winning". there is the truth, and there are spins, misrepresentations, biases, and other things LL says.

There is winning.

And there is spinning everything in your head till you come to your conclusion.

 

[kylebisme]

Israelis are so anti-democratic, they have Arab-representation in the parliament!

Rather, they allow Arab-representation in the parliament, but they are too anti-democratic to allow Arabs any place in their governing coalitions.

the first "law" mentioned in the OP is regarding Hanin Zuabi, the parliament member who was on the Marmara. in a recent poll, over 90% of jewish israelies surveyed believe she should be impeached from parliament, and most of those even suggest throwing her in jail for participating in an activity that harmed the country's image, for meeting with terror activists, and for generally disgracing a country she had sworn an oath to when inducted into parliament. Unfortunately, she enjoys an immunity granted by her position, so that is the "public scolding" she gets for what she has done.

Israel's blockade on of humanitarian aid to Gaza among other violations of internation law are hurtting Israel's image, and Hanin Zuabi has been trying to change that, and didn't have any meeting with any sorts of terrorists. Furthermore, she wasn't just publicly scolded, but rather she was stripped of her privileges.

i sometimes hate democracy!

You obviously hate democracy so much that you don't even understand what the term means.

Yet until you were called on it; there was no indication that you would correct the blatant misrepresentation

It wasn't the best phrasing, but it was a reference to the one recent law passed and the other currently under proposal, so I can't rightly correct what wasn't a misrepresentation, and rather I only added clarification.

 

[lsv]

This whole thread is fail. Let them fight amongst themselves.

 

[Harabec]

Fail OP. Detached from reality and written as propaganda.
Go home, conspiracy theorist.