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"Flirting With Disaster"

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
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Hitchens comes up with another devastating commentary about Kerry and the Dems.

Our favorite uber-liberal communist turned neocon...

Great to read, even greater to watch in person..

Flirting With Disaster
The vile spectacle of Democrats rooting for bad news in Iraq and Afghanistan.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, Sept. 27, 2004, at 11:35 AM PT


There it was at the tail end of Brian Faler's "Politics" roundup column in last Saturday's Washington Post. It was headed, simply, "Quotable":

"I wouldn't be surprised if he appeared in the next month." Teresa Heinz Kerry to the Phoenix Business Journal, referring to a possible capture of Osama bin Laden before Election Day.

As well as being "quotable" (and I wish it had been more widely reported, and I hope that someone will ask the Kerry campaign or the nominee himself to disown it), this is also many other words ending in "-able." Deplorable, detestable, unforgivable. ?

The plain implication is that the Bush administration is stashing Bin Laden somewhere, or somehow keeping his arrest in reserve, for an "October surprise." This innuendo would appear, on the face of it, to go a little further than "impugning the patriotism" of the president. It argues, after all, for something like collusion on his part with a man who has murdered thousands of Americans as well as hundreds of Muslim civilians in other countries.


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I am not one of those who likes to tease Mrs. Kerry for her "loose cannon" style. This is only the second time I have ever mentioned her in print. But I happen to know that this is not an instance of loose lips. She has heard that very remark being made by senior Democrats, and?which is worse?she has not heard anyone in her circle respond to it by saying, "Don't be so bloody stupid." I first heard this "October surprise" theory mentioned seriously, by a prominent foreign-policy Democrat, at an open dinner table in Washington about six months ago. Since then, I've heard it said seriously or semiseriously, by responsible and liberal people who ought to know better, all over the place. It got even worse when the Democratic establishment decided on an arm's-length or closer relationship with Michael Moore and his supposedly vote-getting piece of mendacity and paranoia, Fahrenheit 9/11. (The DNC's boss, Terence McAuliffe, asked outside the Uptown cinema on Connecticut Avenue whether he honestly believed that the administration had invaded Afghanistan for the sake of an oil or perhaps gas pipeline, breezily responded, "I do now.")

What will it take to convince these people that this is not a year, or a time, to be dicking around? Americans are patrolling a front line in Afghanistan, where it would be impossible with 10 times the troop strength to protect all potential voters on Oct. 9 from Taliban/al-Qaida murder and sabotage. We are invited to believe that these hard-pressed soldiers of ours take time off to keep Osama Bin Laden in a secret cave, ready to uncork him when they get a call from Karl Rove? For shame.

Ever since The New Yorker published a near-obituary piece for the Kerry campaign, in the form of an autopsy for the Robert Shrum style, there has been a salad of articles prematurely analyzing "what went wrong." This must be nasty for Democratic activists to read, and I say "nasty" because I hear the way they respond to it. A few pin a vague hope on the so-called "debates"?which are actually joint press conferences allowing no direct exchange between the candidates?but most are much more cynical. Some really bad news from Iraq, or perhaps Afghanistan, and/or a sudden collapse or crisis in the stock market, and Kerry might yet "turn things around." You have heard it, all right, and perhaps even said it. But you may not have appreciated how depraved are its implications. If you calculate that only a disaster of some kind can save your candidate, then you are in danger of harboring a subliminal need for bad news. And it will show. What else explains the amazingly crude and philistine remarks of that campaign genius Joe Lockhart, commenting on the visit of the new Iraqi prime minister and calling him a "puppet"? Here is the only regional leader who is even trying to hold an election, and he is greeted with an ungenerous sneer.

The unfortunately necessary corollary of this?that bad news for the American cause in wartime would be good for Kerry?is that good news would be bad for him. Thus, in Mrs. Kerry's brainless and witless offhand yet pregnant remark, we hear the sick thud of the other shoe dropping. How can the Democrats possibly have gotten themselves into a position where they even suspect that a victory for the Zarqawi or Bin Laden forces would in some way be welcome to them? Or that the capture or killing of Bin Laden would not be something to celebrate with a whole heart?

I think that this detail is very important because the Kerry camp often strives to give the impression that its difference with the president is one of degree but not of kind. Of course we all welcome the end of Taliban rule and even the departure of Saddam Hussein, but we can't remain silent about the way policy has been messed up and compromised and even lied about. I know what it's like to feel that way because it is the way I actually do feel. But I also know the difference when I see it, and I have known some of the liberal world quite well and for a long time, and there are quite obviously people close to the leadership of today's Democratic Party who do not at all hope that the battle goes well in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I have written before in this space that I think Bin Laden is probably dead, and I certainly think that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is a far more ruthless and dangerous jihadist, who is trying to take a much more important country into the orbit of medieval fanaticism and misery. One might argue about that: I could even maintain that it's important to oppose and defeat both gentlemen and their supporters. But unless he conclusively repudiates the obvious defeatists in his own party (and maybe even his own family), we shall be able to say that John Kerry's campaign is a distraction from the fight against al-Qaida.


Christopher Hitchens is a columnist for Vanity Fair. His new collection of essays, Love, Poverty and War, is forthcoming in October.
 

PatboyX

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2001
7,024
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cheney keeps talking up gloom and doom. in fact, the entire system of "terror alert" seems to be based soley on the mass distribution of fear rather than information.

 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Maybe I'm being stupid here, but I doubt you'll find too many Bush bashers who honestly wish for disaster just so Bush looks bad. I will say that if we had a 9/11 level of attack between now and November, especially from someone Osama related, Bush would have a hard time recovering. Does that mean I wish it to happen? Of course not...that's insane, and frankly I think anyone who believes such viewpoints represent any significant portion of Kerry supporters needs to have his head examined.

Let's remember what we're all here for, doing the best thing for our country. We disagree on what that is, but I think most people involved at least agree on that. Anyone who supports their candidate over their country is a useless human being who needs to move to North Korea or somewhere else that kind of crap is acceptable. But I do see it, and just as much from the Bush side of the camp as any other.
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
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Heartsurgeon, this is just another piece of evidence in the trial of the blind...

Democrats and Republicans alike have one thing in mind - what is best for the USA - they may have different opinions on how to get there, but in the end, the overall goal is the same.

Saying that Democrats are rooting for failures in Iraq and Afghanistan is just the right's way of changing what should be the point of any discussion of that area - our complete and utter failures. We have yet to to corral Bin Laden, the warlords are back to controlling much of the land and opium trade, and the situation in Iraq is awful at best. This administration has F'd up plenty of times, there is plenty of ammo for the dems without wishing harm on our soldiers..the only question is if they can get that point through.
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
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What an ignorant troll post
I've posted an article by a well respected intellectual, in a liberal online magazine.

Call it what ever you want.

And yes, i believe that Democrats are rooting for failure..how on earth do you explain Kerry's unexplainable take on Iraq...he is calling our current allies "puppets" and "bribed" and "less safe because you suppport us", and then claiming he will withdraw our troops from "the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time", and get new allies to send troops into iraq (inspite of Germany and France stating they won't send troops under any circumstances)

Kerry's approach to Iraq is feckless, and borders on treasonous...
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Sorry, HS. In my opinion, the real "vile spectacle" is your incessant, hateful trolling. I find it difficult to believe that any educated professional could be so shrill and shamelessly one-sided.

Just my $0.02. Carry on.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
1
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"I wouldn't be surprised if he appeared in the next month." Teresa Heinz Kerry to the Phoenix Business Journal, referring to a possible capture of Osama bin Laden before Election Day.

This is just a manifestation of the opinion that Bush is a "rat bastard" and that nothing is beyond him. Pretty easy to see how some people could come to that conclusion.

Nobody has to wish for failures of Bush's actions. They appear with great frequency already. He has shown that "failure is always an option" quite often enough. What would lead me to believe that he could suddenly be successful in his policies and actions?

The Iraqi prime minister seems to have told an obvious lie about how secure Iraq is at the moment. IMHO he is playing puppet to GWB for personal gain, and he has a very good coach.

And BTW, Bush seems to be the one who doesn't seem to think that OBL is very relevent lately.

I never wish for the worst, but I have come to expect it.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Sorry, HS. In my opinion, the real "vile spectacle" is your incessant, hateful trolling. I find it difficult to believe that any educated professional could be so shrill and shamelessly one-sided.

Just my $0.02. Carry on.

Don't kid yourself Bow, it was worth much more than $0.02 :)
 

DefRef

Diamond Member
Nov 9, 2000
4,041
1
81
In another forum some time ago, I was pointing out the Dems definitely was aiming to ride bad economic numbers and troop casualties back into power and I challenged them point blank if they were willing to drop their 4-year-long vendetta against Bush and accept that he'd be re-elected, but in exchange, the economy would rebound better and the war would conclude successfully.

Not a single person would accept that deal.

It's more important to get payback to these people than allow a better life for all. Must. Have. POWER!!!! Grrrrraawwwwwoollllll!!!!!

The Democratic Party has lost its soul and decended into madness and until they get a grip and a clue are too feckless to be trusted with power and our national security. Kerry's keeps yapping about how he'll "bring nations to our side", yet he and his minions insult the interim PM - A GUY HE'LL HAVE TO DEAL WITH IF HE WERE TO WIN ("Sorry about calling you a lying puppet there. No hard feelings, OK?") - of Iraq and are actively insulting the allies we DO have with us, like England and Australia, where Kerry's sister is encouraging support for the anti-American candidate, arguing that they'll be safer if they abandon us. Nice. A snip:

She is, of course, merely echoing her brother, who, at a time when allies have shown great political courage in facing down both terrorists and domestic opposition for their assistance to the United States in Iraq, calls these allies the "coalition of the coerced and the bribed."

This snide and reckless put-down more than undermines our best friends abroad. It demonstrates the cynicism of Kerry's promise to broaden our coalition in Iraq. If this is how Kerry repays America's closest allies -- ridiculing the likes of Tony Blair and John Howard -- who does he think is going to step up tomorrow to be America's friend?

The only thing that distinguishes Kerry's Iraq proposals from Bush's is his promise to deploy his unique, near-mystical ability to bring in new allies to fight and pay for the war in Iraq -- to "make Iraq the world's responsibility" and get others to "share the burden," as he said this week at New York University.

Yet even Richard Holbrooke, a top Kerry foreign policy adviser, admits that the president of France is not going to call up President Kerry and say, "How many divisions should I send to Iraq?"

Nor will anyone else. Kerry abuses America's closest friends while courting those, like Germany and France, that have deliberately undermined America before, during and after the war. What lessons are leaders abroad to draw from this when President Kerry asks them -- pretty please in his most mellifluous French -- to put themselves on the line for the United States?


Dems have been seething for 4 years to get revenge and then nominated the WORST POSSIBLE CANDIDATE, a guy so lacking in appeal to even the most frothing Bush-hater isn't particularly happy with the alternative. So, they're anger is compounded by their frustration over their clear snatching of defeat from the jaws of victory. Boo-friggedy-hoo....too bad, so sad.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: DefRef
In another forum some time ago, I was pointing out the Dems definitely was aiming to ride bad economic numbers and troop casualties back into power and I challenged them point blank if they were willing to drop their 4-year-long vendetta against Bush and accept that he'd be re-elected, but in exchange, the economy would rebound better and the war would conclude successfully.

Not a single person would accept that deal. :cookie:

It's more important to get payback to these people than allow a better life for all. Must. Have. POWER!!!! Grrrrraawwwwwoollllll!!!!! :cookie:

The Democratic Party has lost its soul and decended into madness and until they get a grip and a clue are too feckless to be trusted with power and our national security. :cookie:

Kerry's keeps yapping about how he'll "bring nations to our side", yet he and his minions insult the interim PM - A GUY HE'LL HAVE TO DEAL WITH IF HE WERE TO WIN ("Sorry about calling you a lying puppet there. No hard feelings, OK?") :cookie:

Kerry's sister.....

Rest of non-issues snipped. You should be full by now. Got Milk?

 

MidasKnight

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2004
3,288
0
76
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
What an ignorant troll post
I've posted an article by a well respected intellectual, in a liberal online magazine.

Call it what ever you want.

And yes, i believe that Democrats are rooting for failure..how on earth do you explain Kerry's unexplainable take on Iraq...he is calling our current allies "puppets" and "bribed" and "less safe because you suppport us", and then claiming he will withdraw our troops from "the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time", and get new allies to send troops into iraq (inspite of Germany and France stating they won't send troops under any circumstances)

Kerry's approach to Iraq is feckless, and borders on treasonous...



:beer:
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
What an ignorant troll post
I've posted an article by a well respected intellectual, in a liberal online magazine.

Call it what ever you want.

And yes, i believe that Democrats are rooting for failure..how on earth do you explain Kerry's unexplainable take on Iraq...he is calling our current allies "puppets" and "bribed" and "less safe because you suppport us", and then claiming he will withdraw our troops from "the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time", and get new allies to send troops into iraq (inspite of Germany and France stating they won't send troops under any circumstances)

Kerry's approach to Iraq is feckless, and borders on treasonous...

Pointing out failure when it occurs does not mean anyone is "rooting" for anything. Some of you Bush supporters can't seem to understand that pointing out a problem is not the same thing as being in support of that problem. Are we honestly trying to draw a connection between criticism of Bush and support of the enemy? From what you are saying, if you are against what Bush is doing, you obviously are rooting for failure. I can't think of a way to explain the difference between being against Bush's actions because they hurt America and being for things that hurt America because they hurt Bush to someone who can't make the distinction.

But here's an analogy for you. A lot of Bush supporters seem to believe that if Kerry is elected, America will be hurt in some huge way by terrorists. Now you are against Kerry because you think he can't protect America...that's fine. But does that mean you will hope something happens if he gets elected just so he looks bad? I sure hope not. Why can't you assume the "other side" is working under the same motivations for the welfare of America that you are?

Well, here's a theory for you. It's usually said that a big indication of lack of emotional intelligence is when the debater assumes his motives are the only good ones, and that everyone else has the wrong views because they have some kind dark motive. In reality, especially in politics, motives are generally the same, only the specifics differ. Only small people refuse to admit this.
 

TheGameIs21

Golden Member
Apr 23, 2001
1,329
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All I have to say is that I have heard this phrase by many people in talking to people face to face.

"It's too bad the economy is picking up, that means Bush will most likely win again."

HELLO!? You'd rather the economy tank than keep a republican in office?

yes, yes, yes, I know, the economy isn't as strong as it was during the time frame when I heard this but the fact is that it was said by many people. I also understand that there are Rabid Bush Haters (some libs) and Blind Followers (some cons). The sad thing is that the few people who are psychotic about their support ruin the party's image for those outside looking in.
 

Hossenfeffer

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2000
7,462
1
0
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Sorry, HS. In my opinion, the real "vile spectacle" is your incessant, hateful trolling. I find it difficult to believe that any educated professional could be so shrill and shamelessly one-sided.

Just my $0.02. Carry on.

:beer:
 

fjord

Senior member
Feb 18, 2004
667
0
0
Hitchens is the very definition of a true troll.

GW isn't flirting--he's already married disaster.
 

tallest1

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2001
3,474
0
0
Replace 'Kerry' with 'Tom Ridge' and 'Dick Cheney' and the article still applies 100%
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
You know that if Clinton had invaded Iraq based on faulty intel and it turned into the potential quagmire that Iraq seems destined to be now HS and his talking points fellowship would be whining like a whore with sand in her vaseline calling for Clinton's head. Ther difference though is that the Democrats would also be calling for Bubba's head too instead of circling the wagons like the Republican Bush Apologists are doing for the Dub.
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
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Valid criticism!=a troll

This tin-foil coiffed conspiracy theory about Bush suddenly producing OBL before the election has been floated frequently by the dems and opponents of the Bush admin. It was mentioned in this very forum just the other day, with various heads nodding in agreeement. If people are going to back such claptrap they very well should be prepared to get slammed on it as well, particularly and especially Kerry's shuga-momma.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: TheGameIs21
All I have to say is that I have heard this phrase by many people in talking to people face to face.

"It's too bad the economy is picking up, that means Bush will most likely win again."

.

Funny, I have NEVER heard one person in my travels say the economy IS picking up to make that kind of statement. Where do you live? Kanas? Well Toto, we're not in Kansas any more ;)

Had to say that.
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
0
Hitchens is a fabulous speaker..he is a frequent guest on Chris Mathews Hardball (uber-liberal talkshow), he is a frequent guest on Fox News (moderate news outlet), and even Rush Limbaugh (conservative talkshow host). He publishes columns in Salon (Liberal) and Vanity Fair (dunno?, sounds liberal to me), newsweek. The guy's oratory and written word is appears to be sought out by liberals, moderates, and conservatives alike.

i suppose the easy way out is to label everyone you disagree with as a "troll"
Oh, gee, i forgot, that's what liberals do all the time already...attack the messenger, not the message.

kinda like al the threads about polls...when they used to show Kerry up...they're accurate.
when they show Bush up. they're just wrong...

Oh well, nobody really expects to change anyone's mind on this forum anyhow..
so you could make the argument that everyone who posts on this forum is a troll

 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Hitchens is a fabulous speaker..he is a frequent guest on Chris Mathews Hardball (uber-liberal talkshow), he is a frequent guest on Fox News (moderate news outlet),
LOL, Moderate News Outlet? You hear that sound, that's the sound of what's left of any credibility you thought you might have here being flushed down the toilet. They are not moderate at all though they just might seem moderate to you as you are a Ultra Conservative Reactionary.