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flip-flopping

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,826
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when does changing your views based on new information, changing situations, nuanced views, or accepting the will of the people (in the case of elected officials) become flip-flopping?
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
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As a practical matter: when dishonest political marketing can convince voters it does, as with John Jerry's vote on war funding.

My answer: when the reason for the flip-flop is not based on new information or reasonable development of judgement, but on self-interest implying dishonesty in the original reasons given for the position.

Consider, for example, Bush's outrage expressed at the Plame outing initially. With the nation largely angrey about it, his own father having a quote about how horrible it is for someone to out a CIA agent, and what seemed like a very low risk of getting caught, he did what was politically beneficial and easy, and hopped on the bandwagon to attack the outing, making promises he didn't expect to be held to.

He gambled, and lost. When it was confirmed his top people were responsible, rather than 'who knows who in the thousands in many agencies', he blatantly reversed position and refused comment.

Another example would be his switch from being extremely dedicated to catching Osama bin Laden when politically helpful, to 'doesn't think about him much' when he wasn't catching him.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
773
32
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Originally posted by: loki8481
when does changing your views based on new information, changing situations, nuanced views, or accepting the will of the people (in the case of elected officials) become flip-flopping?
It's changing your views when you do it. It's flip-flopping when your opponent does it. :)
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,268
4
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When it is done for political reasons?

I think the idea is over used though. Most flip flops are based on people learning more information and thus coming to a better informed decision.

I expect that if elected both Hillary and Obama will change their tune about ending the war in Iraq. The left will call it a flip-flop while the right will claim that they finally gained the proper understanding of the situation.
 

Farang

Lifer
Jul 7, 2003
10,921
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When political expediency is the motive for your change of position rather than any real development of ideas or events. While difficult to prove, there are a number of issues where this is clear. For instance, a candidate can flip-flop on abortion rights because the facts of that argument remain stagnant--the only thing that changes is that candidate's constituency.
 

chowderhead

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 1999
2,607
211
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Originally posted by: RY62
Originally posted by: loki8481
when does changing your views based on new information, changing situations, nuanced views, or accepting the will of the people (in the case of elected officials) become flip-flopping?
It's changing your views when you do it. It's flip-flopping when your opponent does it. :)
a corollary to that is it's a flip-flop when the politician changes to a view that is against your own views.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Originally posted by: loki8481
when does changing your views based on new information, changing situations, nuanced views, or accepting the will of the people (in the case of elected officials) become flip-flopping?
When the democrats vote is strong, then it's flip flopping by design of a very clever tactician, we could use someone like that over here.

You don't even have to contradict yourself, it will be done for you, see, they'll find something, anything and accuse you of it.

Take shit like who voted *for* the Iraq war... No one did, actually, what they voted for was the use of force if all else failed and at the time the UN was IN there, they did not predict that yee-haw George and his band of the criminally insane would actually do what they then wen ahead and did.

Well Obanma voted against it but only because he likes to be "different" and "special", that doesn't work though.

Obama as President will inevitably lead to more of the same, promising change is one thing, doing something is completely different.
 

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