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Question Flight Simulator 2020 - Upgrade My PC, or Buy All New?

Jeff7181

Jeff7181

Lifer
I currently have a Core i5-4590, 16GB of RAM, Samsung 850 Evo, and a Radeon R9 280 - clearly not modern components by any stretch of the imagination. However, my dad's PC is much older and he can't afford to do much upgrading, especially for what it would take to get FS2020 to run decently.

So I think for Christmas, I'm going to either build him an entirely new rig, or upgrade mine and give it to him. I signed up for the $1 one month trial of GamePass, so I have FS2020 installed now and it runs on my system. Not well, but it runs. It automatically set the graphics to Medium, which looks alright, so I think my dad would be happy with that.

Seems like with my socket 1150 motherboard, I can spend several hundred more dollars and get a CPU that's a few percent faster.

Or, I believe I can swap the video card for something like a 5600XT.

However, I'm having trouble determining whether my CPU or the GPU is a bigger bottleneck right now. I'm still doing some testing right now to see what I can figure out... but at various points I see CPU and GPU utilization at 100%, so it's hard to determine which is the bigger bottleneck. I don't want to spend $250-300 on a 5600XT if it's only going to give me a 5 or 10% gain in performance because the CPU is such a bottleneck.

Any suggestions?
 
Upgrading the video card seems like the best plan. One with 8 Gb of on-board memory, such as the RTX 2060 Super, or an AMD 5000 series GPU like you mentioned. Spending $$ on upgrading to a faster socket 1150 CPU would not be such a good idea, however.
In short: upgrade just the video card, and see how FS runs. If the CPU still seems too slow, upgrading the whole system: motherboard, CPU & DDR4 system memory, would be the next option.
 
Since you are looking at this around Christmas time, you (likely) can see what AMD has released for their next CPUs.

I agree with vailr that there would be little point upgrading anything on a LGA 1150 motherboard. The latest review I read concerning the game you mention suggest having at least having a 6 core CPU, with an 8 eight core recommended. Depending on the market, you likely can grab a CPU like the Ryzen 3700X at a lower price once their next models arrive (based on what happened with the 2000 and 3000 series launch).

https://www.tomshardware.com/featur...or-benchmarks-performance-system-requirements
 
I was doing some more research today and learned about "developer mode" in FS2020. It shows frame rates and latency numbers and gives an actual indication as to whether the frame rate is being limited by the GPU or a particular process/thread. I did a little flying around at Medium settings and aside for the first 2-3 minutes after loading a location, it basically said I was GPU limited the entire time. So I think you guys are right... GPU upgrade makes the most sense. So I ordered a 5600XT for $250. Only 6GB of RAM, but better than what I got without driving the cost up too much and if that's all it takes to provide 30 fps or so, I think he'd be happy with that.
 
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It's all GPU. My CPU is never over 50% utilization. I upgraded to 32GB of ram for FS2020. I don't know if that makes a difference. You want the next gen Nvidia cards or AMD cards.
 
Kenmitch said:
Did you see this article on Tom's Hardware?

www.tomshardware.com

Microsoft Flight Simulator Performance and Benchmarks: Your PC May Need an Upgrade

Microsoft Flight Simulator is one of the most demanding games currently available.
www.tomshardware.com www.tomshardware.com
Click to expand...
I did see that and what really confused me is the statements about how much better nVidia cards were doing compared to AMD.

From what I can see, the 5600XT (with settings at High) is just above the 1660 Super, which makes sense given its priced just above the 1660.

I can see, though, that the CPU will be a bottleneck as mine will likely be a tad lower than the i3-9100. But still seems like there's some performance to be gained with the 5600XT.

I wonder if there's any value in switching from the old 1TB 850 Evo to a newer NVMe drive... Maybe faster load times so that first couple minutes when starting a flight isn't so bad? We'll see... Newegg just put some SSDs on sale, so I bought a Intel 665p 1TB. If it doesn't make a difference, I've been wanting one for my homelab/media server anyway.
 
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Hans Gruber said:
It's all GPU. My CPU is never over 50% utilization. I upgraded to 32GB of ram for FS2020. I don't know if that makes a difference. You want the next gen Nvidia cards or AMD cards.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it's kind of an antiquated engine that is CPU limited, however just looking at CPU utilization numbers it might not immediately appear as if you are CPU limited. What you're seeing is that it is using every bit of a few cores it can muster, and slacking off on the rest. This sucks, because you can be CPU limited on a 10900K or 3950X while your CPU utilization shows something shockingly low like 20% or similar.

Even at 1440p Ultra (!!!!!) it is so CPU bound that identical 2080ti is way faster with a 9900k rig vs a 3900X with 50% more cores, more cache, etc. It's only at 4K ultra where the 2080ti is strangled enough to flatten them together.

If it were properly coded to take advantage of higher thread counts, it would not bog so much on Ryzens, and instead be fully GPU bound in most instances on any modern 6C/12T CPU or better.

It's a little baffling, as if any company knew how to squeeze performance out of high core count AMD SKUs, it should be Microsoft, but they didn't even use DX12 here.

I also find it kind of humorous, and a little sad, that Hardware Unboxed just changed to a 3950X for GPU testing with the FS2020 test, which is literally up to 20% slower for this (admittedly shoddily coded) title.

Flight Sim is a very niche hardcore fan base that usually doesn't overlap with a lot of other genres. I've known a solid number of people over the years who build a PC specifically for a Flight Simulator release. For that kind of person, probably the best match is 10600K, 32GB of CL16-3600 or better, enough nVME SSD storage for the game + updates and streaming asset cache (1TB?), and a GPU that matches their desired resolution. 4k is 2080ti or better only and still not ideal, 1440p is good for 2070/2080/5700/XT realm, and 1080p is 1660S/2060/5600XT for a decent match that doesn't run away from CPU or vice versa.
 

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Arkaign said:
I also find it kind of humorous, and a little sad, that Hardware Unboxed just changed to a 3950X for GPU testing with the FS2020 test, which is literally up to 20% slower for this (admittedly shoddily coded) title.
Click to expand...
I like benchmark Steve's reasons. One is that the vast majority of his viewership wants it, 83 percent of over 50,000 votes, and that's what keeps the lights on. And the idea that PCI-E 4.0 may be relevant to performance with the new Nvidia Flagship, is not a bad one either. He also showed the performance was within margin of error. This title is an exception, for now. Anyone building a system for this game, will do their research, and see Intel is the only way to fly. I'll be here all week; you've been a great crowd. 😛
 
Hans Gruber said:
It's all GPU. My CPU is never over 50% utilization. I upgraded to 32GB of ram for FS2020. I don't know if that makes a difference. You want the next gen Nvidia cards or AMD cards.
Click to expand...
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Windows won't report 100% CPU usage unless all threads are loaded 100% which no game is going to do. The better method is to look at GPU usage without any frame limiters or vsync, if GPU isn't at 100% then you are likely CPU limited.
 
CropDuster said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Windows won't report 100% CPU usage unless all threads are loaded 100% which no game is going to do. The better method is to look at GPU usage without any frame limiters or vsync, if GPU isn't at 100% then you are likely CPU limited.
Click to expand...
MSI afterburner can be set to display temps, usage, clocks, on CPU and GPU, including every CPU core/thread usage. And yeah, there are games that will load a Quad core completely up.
 
CropDuster said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Windows won't report 100% CPU usage unless all threads are loaded 100% which no game is going to do. The better method is to look at GPU usage without any frame limiters or vsync, if GPU isn't at 100% then you are likely CPU limited.
Click to expand...
You would be better off looking @ fps first. Remember a flight simulator only needs 30fps for a good experience. I would say 45fps is probably what your target should be. Lowering AA and shadow detail and stuff that you don't need will give your more performance. The next generation Nvidia cards or AMD cards is your best bet. Xplane is still ahead of flight simulator on feel and realism of flight dynamics. Obviously flight simulator will get better with age and updates.
 
I'm probably as old as your dad, although my old setup is a bit more updated.
$1000-1500 for a modest build. Which would probably perform better (and last a lot longer) than upgrading just the GPU to say, $1000 RTX card.

I'm also in the same boat; want to build a new PC for FS2020 (and other 2020 games).
My advice would be to do a new build. FS2020 needs more than just fresh mid-grade GPU upgrade. At least at its current state. It needs a lot of RAM & CPU cores. It's one of those games that trade off speed vs details, e.g.: Civ VI. 30fps at Ultra in 4K >>> 60fps at Medium or Ultra at 1080p. This is my own argument for my build.
 
Well, my 5600XT is a dud. Green screen and locks up the whole PC whenever I run anything that uses the GPU. Returning it and getting a GTX 1660 Super.
 
Since the 5600XT you got was a defective one, you might double check the used market right now. Loads of people dumping their GPUs due to RTX 3000 series, and some nice deals if you look hard enough.
 
If i were you i would also definitely try upgrading first. After all, if you already have the parts you can build a new one after if you want to.
 
DAPUNISHER said:
MSI afterburner can be set to display temps, usage, clocks, on CPU and GPU, including every CPU core/thread usage. And yeah, there are games that will load a Quad core completely up.
Click to expand...
My point is you can be CPU limited without CPU usage showing 100%. My 1080ti sits around 75% usage at 1200p in FS2020. I can lower my GFX settings in game and my FPS won't change. DCS is the same way, CPU overall usage is only like 15% on my 4.4ghz 5820k because DCS only uses 1-2 cores so I'm single thread speed limited
 
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