Flash on mobile devices.

[akugami]

Ok. There's one camp that will always think Apple is Hell and Steve Jobs is Satan. There's others that revere all things Apple. I'm in the middle and will buy anything that I feel suits me. Let's just cut the B.S. and skip that part of the debate.

I know that the great Flash debate has mostly died down but I know some of you swear up and down and on your Grandmother's grave that Flash is essential to your web browsing experience. Personally, I'm ambivalent towards Flash. There are some genuinely nice Flash based sites but I hate the bloated nature of Flash and how slow it is. Some sites also seem to use Flash just because it's the technology du jour. Not to mention the insanely annoying Flash based ads. Personally I run Flash Block on Firefox in every computer I own.

I'm interested in how essential you guys feel Flash is to your user experience. Especially some of you who have reviled Jobs over his decision not to support Flash on mobile devices. So my proposal is for you guys to go a few days or one week without Flash when browsing web sites. With Firefox just download the Flash Block add-on. On Internet Explorer follow these directions to disable Flash, which you can later reverse to re-enable and you can allow a white list of sites on both the IE and FF.

List any web sites where the lack of Flash has been a negative. Now, obviously any web based video is 90% likely to use Flash and web based games are also more likely than not going to be Flash based but I'm curious how the lack of Flash affects your browsing experiences at other web sites. For instance, I've seen some photography sites that use Flash to transition from one image to the next and obviously the lack of Flash pretty much disables the site.

As I've said, I started using Flash Block due to the numerous and insanely annoying Flash based ads that were literally flashing all over the screen. I've found that in general, and aside from video streaming web sites and Flash based web games, I rarely have to enable Flash in the majority of sites I visit and in all honesty, of the sites I've had to enable Flash on, the same user interface elements could have been done without Flash.

Again, no anti-Apple or anti-Jobs sentiments. No Android is teh roxxor posts. Just post your honest opinions on Flash and how the lack of it has affected your web browsing experience such as whether the lack of it has been a negative or positive.

 

[pm]

I tend to miss Flash when I don't have it - there will be some site like my ski resort or the company from whom I'm thinking about buying a car with a Flash-only website - and I'll really want Flash. And there's some games that I really like that are Flash-only (Tower Defense especially). Beyond this, I tend to think Flash ads are the most annoying and the application as a whole runs more slowly than I think that it should... I'm spending today upgrading my HTPC (was 1.6GHz Pentium M) because Flash doesn't run fast enough on it.

I'm easy. I would like it - particularly if I could turn it off - but I can live without it too. If Androids all had Flash (and they will) and my iPhone3GS doesn't (and it probably won't... although Frash is making progress), then it would be one more reason to think about an Android phone as a replacement... but not a really strong reason in my case.

 

[rudeguy]

Ok. There's one camp that will always think Apple is Hell and Steve Jobs is Satan. There's others that revere all things Apple. I'm in the middle and will buy anything that I feel suits me. Let's just cut the B.S. and skip that part of the debate.

I know that the great Flash debate has mostly died down but I know some of you swear up and down and on your Grandmother's grave that Flash is essential to your web browsing experience. Personally, I'm ambivalent towards Flash. There are some genuinely nice Flash based sites but I hate the bloated nature of Flash and how slow it is. Some sites also seem to use Flash just because it's the technology du jour. Not to mention the insanely annoying Flash based ads. Personally I run Flash Block on Firefox in every computer I own.

I'm interested in how essential you guys feel Flash is to your user experience. Especially some of you who have reviled Jobs over his decision not to support Flash on mobile devices. So my proposal is for you guys to go a few days or one week without Flash when browsing web sites. With Firefox just download the Flash Block add-on. On Internet Explorer follow these directions to disable Flash, which you can later reverse to re-enable and you can allow a white list of sites on both the IE and FF.

List any web sites where the lack of Flash has been a negative. Now, obviously any web based video is 90% likely to use Flash and web based games are also more likely than not going to be Flash based but I'm curious how the lack of Flash affects your browsing experiences at other web sites. For instance, I've seen some photography sites that use Flash to transition from one image to the next and obviously the lack of Flash pretty much disables the site.

As I've said, I started using Flash Block due to the numerous and insanely annoying Flash based ads that were literally flashing all over the screen. I've found that in general, and aside from video streaming web sites and Flash based web games, I rarely have to enable Flash in the majority of sites I visit and in all honesty, of the sites I've had to enable Flash on, the same user interface elements could have been done without Flash.

Again, no anti-Apple or anti-Jobs sentiments. No Android is teh roxxor posts. Just post your honest opinions on Flash and how the lack of it has affected your web browsing experience such as whether the lack of it has been a negative or positive.

sigh....

No I won't disable flash on my browser.

Yes I want to have the OPTION of having flash on my phone.

Yes I am tired of these threads. There are already 4 of them dedicated to this subject. Why not just bump one of those?

 

[mmntech]

Adobe can make Flash run on any platform, just as long as it's 32-bit Windows.

Flash was never meant to be a video container format. It also suffers from bloat and security issues, like all other Adobe product.

However, I think it's biggest issue is lack of development. Flash is a dinosaur. Four years after Microsoft popularized 64-bit operating systems, Adobe still has not released a 64-bit Flash. GPU acceleration was only added because HD playback was atrocious.

Performance on OS X systems is considerably worse than Windows. Even with GPU acceleration, my laptop runs considerably hotter running video in Flash than other programs such as VLC. Steve Jobs isn't entirely correct that Flash crashes OS X. It doesn't. Apple is trying to kill it off for whatever reason, and I think consumers can agree it needs to be replaced by something better.

The problem is, Flash is so ubiquitous on the web. Nearly all video sites use it. Silverlight is arguably superior but it's adoption has been very slow. The iPhone and iPad notably don't support it either. HTML5 is still in its infancy and doesn't have wide browser support. Flash still has a few years left at least.

This is what's holding back the iPhone and iPad from being true media consumption devices. Site specific apps that stream video or replicate online apps in Apple's formats are a band-aid at best. They'd better come up with an alternative quick or their "i" lines are just going to fall further behind in that respect.

 

[zerocool84]

Do we seriously need ANOTHER thread on Flash??? Have you not used the search button? This has been beaten to death. We do not need another thread about it.

 

[akugami]

I tend to miss Flash when I don't have it - there will be some site like my ski resort or the company from whom I'm thinking about buying a car with a Flash-only website - and I'll really want Flash. And there's some games that I really like that are Flash-only (Tower Defense especially). Beyond this, I tend to think Flash ads are the most annoying and the application as a whole runs more slowly than I think that it should... I'm spending today upgrading my HTPC (was 1.6GHz Pentium M) because Flash doesn't run fast enough on it.

I'm easy. I would like it - particularly if I could turn it off - but I can live without it too. If Androids all had Flash (and they will) and my iPhone3GS doesn't (and it probably won't... although Frash is making progress), then it would be one more reason to think about an Android phone as a replacement... but not a really strong reason in my case.

I think I'm the opposite. I tend to not enable Flash until I hit a site that really requires it. Though even in those cases, most of the sites I've hit could have just as easily been done without Flash.

However, I think it's biggest issue is lack of development. Flash is a dinosaur. Four years after Microsoft popularized 64-bit operating systems, Adobe still has not released a 64-bit Flash. GPU acceleration was only added because HD playback was atrocious.

There is a Linux 64 bit Flash available but no Windows based version.

The problem is, Flash is so ubiquitous on the web. Nearly all video sites use it. Silverlight is arguably superior but it's adoption has been very slow. The iPhone and iPad notably don't support it either. HTML5 is still in its infancy and doesn't have wide browser support. Flash still has a few years left at least.

This is what's holding back the iPhone and iPad from being true media consumption devices. Site specific apps that stream video or replicate online apps in Apple's formats are a band-aid at best. They'd better come up with an alternative quick or their "i" lines are just going to fall further behind in that respect.

Any sites in particular where you've been impacted by the lack of Flash? I know that while I am not impacted by the lack of Flash on the majority of sites I visit, one of the ones that are impacted is Yahoo Sports where they have video clips and stuff. Yahoo Sport's NFL page is probably one of the few site I will actually watch the video content.

sigh....

No I won't disable flash on my browser.

Yes I want to have the OPTION of having flash on my phone.

Yes I am tired of these threads. There are already 4 of them dedicated to this subject. Why not just bump one of those?

You're free to ignore the thread. Especially since you've just started a Flash thread of your own today after complaining about this Flash thread no less.

Most of the other threads have devolved into bashing Apple or bashing Android. I would like to keep this free of that.

And I also want the option of having Flash on my phone but I didn't want this thread to become an Apple or Android bashfest.

Do we seriously need ANOTHER thread on Flash??? Have you not used the search button? This has been beaten to death. We do not need another thread about it.

Maybe you didn't do more than skim the first post, I'm asking about user experience and how it may negatively impact you or if the lack of Flash has had no impact. I don't care whether you're championing Flash or not. I'm trying to formulate a better opinion. I'm eliciting input from others. Point me to another thread that is asking that question rather than the endless bashing we've got going in the other threads. For instance, what sites do you frequent that require Flash if it's not getting into stuff you'd rather keep private. I'm not asking about the pros or cons of Flash. Just getting a feel for whether people truly feel Flash is important and why.

 

[zerocool84]

Maybe you didn't do more than skim the first post, I'm asking about user experience and how it may negatively impact you or if the lack of Flash has had no impact. I don't care whether you're championing Flash or not. I'm trying to formulate a better opinion. I'm eliciting input from others. Point me to another thread that is asking that question rather than the endless bashing we've got going in the other threads. For instance, what sites do you frequent that require Flash if it's not getting into stuff you'd rather keep private. I'm not asking about the pros or cons of Flash. Just getting a feel for whether people truly feel Flash is important and why.

We've had tons of posts on this very topic.

 

[akugami]

We've had tons of posts on this very topic.

Dude, I looked. Most of them were "Flash sucks" or "Flash rocks" or were Apple or Android bash fests. I didn't participate in those because I don't want to get into a pointless bash fest.

 

[rudeguy]

Dude, I looked. Most of them were "Flash sucks" or "Flash rocks" or were Apple or Android bash fests. I didn't participate in those because I don't want to get into a pointless bash fest.

I have not started any threads about flash today.


And think about the part I bolded. "No bashing apple/steve and no saying how much you like android"

 

[olds]

I run flash block on my PCs. Flash is annoying as hell. But a sometimes necessary evil.

 

[boomhower]

One simple example, while traveling and trying to look at restaurant web pages without flash is pretty much impossible.

Flash is easily blocked, even on mobile. Why not have it on when you need and turned off the rest of the time? I leave it on all the time and don't see any regular detriment in performance, if there was I would turn it off.

edit
Forgot one thing. justin.tv rocks is a great time killer. At work I spend a lot of long night in my car and it's a great way to pass time when I forget to stick a movie on my phone.

 

[BigSmooth]

One simple example, while traveling and trying to look at restaurant web pages without flash is pretty much impossible.

Exactly. Flash has its problems but there are times when you just need to have it. We were at a chain restaurant the other day and my wife wanted to know how many calories were in one of their menu items. Well, their site is totally flash-based so if she didn't have flash capability on her Nexus One it would have been impossible to figure that out.

 

[CurseTheSky]

It's a necessary evil. I personally am not a fan of Flash, but with the widespread use on many websites and online applications, not having it available is a shot in the foot to any browser or platform.

As rudeguy said, I at least want to have the OPTION.

 

[rudeguy]

It's a necessary evil. I personally am not a fan of Flash, but with the widespread use on many websites and online applications, not having it available is a shot in the foot to any browser or platform.

As rudeguy said, I at least want to have the OPTION.

Right...that has been and always will be my point. I would like an option. I would not like some guy in a land far, far away deciding for me what I want. Its not about Apple sucking or Android being great...its that Android doesn't tell me what I can and cannot do. Its also about the Apple fanboys saying that what I want is stupid or not worthy.

 

[ponyo]

I rarely need flash but my wife watches korean dramas and videos. If her ipad had flash she wouldnt need her laptop. Ipad is almost perfect browsing and video watching device except it lacks flash.

 

[theeedude]

I rarely need flash but my wife watches korean dramas and videos. If her ipad had flash she wouldnt need her laptop. Ipad is almost perfect browsing and video watching device except it lacks flash.

That's why I am waiting for Android tablets. Going to replace my home laptop with one. All I use one it for is the internet, so Flash has to work, otherwise I'd have to keep a laptop around to visit Flash sites.

 

[zerocool84]

Exactly. Flash has its problems but there are times when you just need to have it. We were at a chain restaurant the other day and my wife wanted to know how many calories were in one of their menu items. Well, their site is totally flash-based so if she didn't have flash capability on her Nexus One it would have been impossible to figure that out.

It's exactly stuff like this that I keep telling people. Flash is more than just Flash videos and advertisements. There are still thousands of websites that are Flash only and it's great to be able to use it when you need it and turn it off when you dont.

 

[akugami]

I have not started any threads about flash today.

And think about the part I bolded. "No bashing apple/steve and no saying how much you like android"

I apologize. I swear that for some reason the thread I saw you start said the same date as the date I started this thread but that was probably for the reply. Checked again and the start date is 8-18.

Anyhow. I could have worded that better but this being the internet and not a thesis for an English class I didn't bother to do more than a single review. But the point stands. I don't want this to be a Apple bashfest, which is what a lot of these type of threads have turned into. There are many who bash Android as well which is also what I didn't want this to turn into.

And keep in mind that while my particular choice of phones does not allow me to use Flash without a hack, which I didn't bother with, I would like the option of having Flash. I'd keep it disabled most of the time just like on my desktop and laptop machines.



BTW, can you guys list some of the restaurant or travel sites where you're running into issues with having no Flash. I know places like Orbitz or Priceline doesn't require Flash.

It's exactly stuff like this that I keep telling people. Flash is more than just Flash videos and advertisements. There are still thousands of websites that are Flash only and it's great to be able to use it when you need it and turn it off when you dont.

Of course the restaurant couldn't use a Flash-less web site which would run smoother and faster for simple content such as caloric and nutritional info. Like I said, I believe Flash is overused because it's the technology du jour and they think they need it.

So how about your browsing habits. What sites have you been to that required Flash and the lack of it hampered you? That's what I'm asking. Or did you just want to stay in this thread and complain about this thread and extol the virtues of Flash without providing any input except to say Flash is great?

 

[BigSmooth]

BTW, can you guys list some of the restaurant or travel sites where you're running into issues with having no Flash. I know places like Orbitz or Priceline doesn't require Flash.

We happened to be at Red Robin at the time, but I know it's happened elsewhere.

Of course the restaurant couldn't use a Flash-less web site which would run smoother and faster for simple content such as caloric and nutritional info. Like I said, I believe Flash is overused because it's the technology du jour and they think they need it.

Totally agree and I think Flash will eventually get phased out, but that is a long way off and right now I agree with the "necessary evil" approach.

 

[zerocool84]

Of course the restaurant couldn't use a Flash-less web site which would run smoother and faster for simple content such as caloric and nutritional info. Like I said, I believe Flash is overused because it's the technology du jour and they think they need it.

So how about your browsing habits. What sites have you been to that required Flash and the lack of it hampered you? That's what I'm asking. Or did you just want to stay in this thread and complain about this thread and extol the virtues of Flash without providing any input except to say Flash is great?

Of course they could but they didn't which is why it's great to be able to have Flash and if you want to know my Flash experience search, I already posted it as have many of us. It doesn't matter if Flash is overused or not. The fact that it's used says you will probably need it in some form.

 

[rudeguy]

Now that we have come full circle...

Of course Flash sucks. Of course website designers should DIAF for using it. Of course there are different and/or better ways of coding games....the point is that Flash exists and I would like to have the ability to use it on my phone if I choose to.

 

[TheWart]

Now that we have come full circle...

Of course Flash sucks. Of course website designers should DIAF for using it. Of course there are different and/or better ways of coding games....the point is that Flash exists and I would like to have the ability to use it on my phone if I choose to.

True, but maybe the sheer number of devices that don't support flash (or only do so pretty poorly) will prompt the shift away from flash. At a certain point it was time to dump the floppy disc even though it was widely used...

 

[rudeguy]

True, but maybe the sheer number of devices that don't support flash (or only do so pretty poorly) will prompt the shift away from flash. At a certain point it was time to dump the floppy disc even though it was widely used...

And no one will be happier than me when that day comes! I don't have a single positive thing to say about Adobe.

In the Steve Jobs on Flash thread I said that I hoped Apple's ban on flash would finally be the death of the company and I still mean it. Some of the main porn sites have said they are going to HTML5. While that doesn't mean a whole lot, its another nail in Adobe's coffin. One of the major news networks even did a piece that revealed exactly how much info Adobe stored about you. That should have been enough to get everyone on board with banning Adobe...but still...Adobe lives on.

I'm starting to think maybe Cheney is running Adobe and that's the real reason why its immortal.

 

[tatteredpotato]

Flash on a phone isn't for games or animations as much as it is for UIs that depend on it. There are lots of smaller websites that require flash to navigate and you're SOL if you want to view that content on a flashless device.

 

[theeedude]

Open and fair competition between Flash and HTML5 is what will provide the best technology for users in the long run. I honestly don't care if a browser capability comes from Flash , HTML5, Java, etc I only care about the experience I get as a user. When I go to a website, I expect the browser to render it the way the developer intended, and support ALL standards necessary to do so. When I go to a website, it either renders properly, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then it's doesn't matter to me if it's because browser doesn't support Flash, or because server crashed, or whatever, it is a FAIL. Something is not working right if I cannot see the website as the developer intended for me to see it. My only goal is to find a device and browser that fails less often, and that means it has to have Flash.