Flag burning on the fourth

tec699

Banned
Dec 19, 2002
6,440
0
0
If an American wanted to vent a bit of frustration, would you care if they burned the American Flag? Are they allowed to burn the flag, and if you saw someone do this in front of you (especially on July 4th) what would your reaction be?

I mean... We live in a free society right? So shouldn't an American be allowed to burn old glory if he wanted?

just asking... :D
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: tec699
If an American wanted to vent a bit of frustration, would you care if they burned the American Flag? Are they allowed to burn the flag, and if you saw someone do this in front of you (especially on July 4th) what would your reaction be?

I mean... We live in a free society right? So shouldn't an American be allowed to burn old glory if he wanted?

just asking... :D

I find the act repulsive, but they should be free to do so.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
1
0
Only if they have the balls enough to do it in front of a bunch of vets. Even better...make it WWII vets. Nothing like seeing a bunch of old men kick some young idiot ass.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,104
6,609
126
Of course we can. This is an issue that distinguishes real patriots from the superficial frauds. The mounting numbers of superficialists, however, who wear their Americanism on their sleeves has grown to such a proportion, however, that many a politician tries to curry favor with these fools by proposing an anti-flag burning amendment. So far it has failed.

The flag stands for freedom and the day you can't burn it is the day you should. It is precisely and exactly because you can burn it that puts a lie to the act.
 

mastertech01

Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
Nov 13, 1999
11,875
282
126
It only means something if people react to it. If you ignore the fool he will simply shrink back into the hole he came from. Most patriots whom are veterans would take it as an insult, since they regard the colors as a Christian would his bible. But as Christians know, you cant force religion on anyone, and likewise you cant force people to respect thier country or its symbols.

How much courage is there in comparison of one who would burn the flag, as opposed to someone who would die fighting for it? You can call the veteran a sheeple if you like, but its for the lame assed flag burner's rights that he laid his life on the line.

Is it more appealing to protest one mans actions in the Whitehouse, or to respect all those who laid their lives down for the sake of yours? The reactions of those patriots to your flag burning has little to do with your rights... its all about respect for all the blood, sweat and tears which made that flag and the nation it represents stand. IMHO
 

freegeeks

Diamond Member
May 7, 2001
5,460
1
81
I have a couple of flags at home and I've used pieces of it to light on my bbq.
I've never understand how somebody could be emotionally attached to a piece of fabric

note: i'm not american, patriotism is not in my genes
 

HappyPuppy

Lifer
Apr 5, 2001
16,997
2
71
Originally posted by: freegeeks
I have a couple of flags at home and I've used pieces of it to light on my bbq.
I've never understand how somebody could be emotionally attached to a piece of fabric

note: i'm not american, patriotism is not in my genes


In the U.S. you have every right to do so. You also have the right to cut it up into 4" squares and wipe your ass with it. It's just another bit of property that belongs to you to do with as you please as long as you don't compromise public safety.

I believe that desecrating the symbol of something that grants you the freedom to do as you please is ignorant, but that's just me. I get upset just seeing the American flag displayed incorrectly, let alone abused.

BTW, I quit flying my flag, the one that my WWI vet grandfather was buried beneath, when the invasion began. I don't know when I will be able to display it with pride again.

 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
I understand the proper way to dispose of the flag of the US is to burn it.. and I have done so.. not in protest, though. I'm in two minds about the burning of the US Flag.. one as moonbeam points out.. which I agree with and the other being... the motive of the flag burner... that if it is intended not as the act of a free person to exersize freedom of speach but, rather, to incite for mal intent then I oppose it. It is all in the motive as I see it... and I see a difference betwix the two..
 

freegeeks

Diamond Member
May 7, 2001
5,460
1
81
In the U.S. you have every right to do so. You also have the right to cut it up into 4" squares and wipe your ass with it. It's just another bit of property that belongs to you to do with as you please as long as you don't compromise public safety.

I believe that desecrating the symbol of something that grants you the freedom to do as you please is ignorant, but that's just me. I get upset just seeing the American flag displayed incorrectly, let alone abused.

BTW, I quit flying my flag, the one that my WWI vet grandfather was buried beneath, when the invasion began. I don't know when I will be able to display it with pride again.

I just want to clarify that I don't burn American flags.
I use my Belgian flags for that
 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,424
2
0
I'd rather burn down the Capitol, at least that's more symbolic of what needs to happen.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
We all know how well you liked this the last time I did this but this song was the first song I heard(I left winamp on random all night:p) when I awoke today.
Eye of the Beholder

"Independence Limited
Freedom of Choice
Choice Is Mad for You My Friend
Freedom of Speech
Speech Is Words That They Will Bend
Freedom with Their Exception

Doesn't Matter What You See
Or into it What You Read
You Can Do it Your Own Way
If It's Done Just How I Say"

--Metallica - ..And Justice for All

I thought it strangely appropriate for today and this thread. It somewhat represents how I feel about what is imposed upon us by our gov't - we are free to do what we wish except for the things they say we can't. So are we really "free"? Too many questions for this short life :p

Flame away on the Metallica reference:p

CkG
 

Trezza

Senior member
Sep 18, 2002
522
0
0
i don't have any evidence on this but i am pretty sure it is illegal to burn the american flag in protest. Whether or not the police would got after you for it is another things. Its one of those old laws from the 1800's where the average citizen cared about their country and weren't crying about every other thing the gov't did. I would seriously like to know if anyone of you people who degrade this country and live in it are involved in anything that would further your point of view.
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
Originally posted by: Trezza
i don't have any evidence on this but i am pretty sure it is illegal to burn the american flag in protest. Whether or not the police would got after you for it is another things. Its one of those old laws from the 1800's where the average citizen cared about their country and weren't crying about every other thing the gov't did. I would seriously like to know if anyone of you people who degrade this country and live in it are involved in anything that would further your point of view.

Actually there was a Supreme Court decision a couple years back that says that flag burning is protected 1st ammendment speech. That is why whenever certain Senators and Congressmen get really bored or don't feel they are having enough attention coming their way they resurrect the idea of a Constitutional ammendment against flag burning.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,104
6,609
126
I'd rather burn down the Capitol, at least that's more symbolic of what needs to happen.
------------------
You are bad, jj. It's not the capital that needs to burn, it's our so called representatives that need to be voted out.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'd rather burn down the Capitol, at least that's more symbolic of what needs to happen.
------------------
You are bad, jj. It's not the capital that needs to burn, it's our so called representatives that need to be voted out.

lets vote to have a lottery... every one over 25 is entered and based on population each state chooses at randum a person or persons to be a rep for two years... then back to what they did prior... For The senate... only people over 30 and with at least a master degree are eligible.. And for president... we let the Supreme Court Choose...

 

jjones

Lifer
Oct 9, 2001
15,424
2
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'd rather burn down the Capitol, at least that's more symbolic of what needs to happen.
------------------
You are bad, jj. It's not the capital that needs to burn, it's our so called representatives that need to be voted out.
How about a tiny neutron bomb when Congress is in session then, should be able to save most of the architecture. :p

I gave up on voting a long time ago. Replacing one piece of pondscum with another just seemed too fruitless an effort. I really wish I weren't so cynical about it but I've lost my faith so long ago in the so-called democratic process. Quite honestly, I see no hope for reform unless something truly drastic happens.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,743
10,289
146
For my own deeply personal reasons, if I saw an American flag being burned, I would probably rush to rescue it, by force if necessary. I know that I would not be able to stop myself. I would, I guess, be exercising my right of self-expression.

Still, the political pandering of those who would foist a flag burning amendment on us disgusts me. Chicken hawks, in particular, disgust me. George Bush in a jumpsuit really disgusts me.

Moonbeam nailed it: "The flag stands for freedom and the day you can't burn it is the day you should."

Nevertheless, I grew up believing in every good thing about egalitarian, Jeffersonian democracy for which Old Glory has ever waved. I would have layed down my life for those ideals, for that flag. Sadly, I enjoyed the bittersweet privelege of knowing all too many young men -- boys, really -- who did.

Would that they had heeded the great English WWI poet Wilfred Owen, who, not long after he wrote Dulce Et Decorum Est, lost his life, for King and Country. It describes a fellow Tommy who didn't get his gas mask on in time.

Below is the end of that poem:


In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,-
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.









 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,652
6,219
126
Hypothetical situation:

You see a Protestor. In one hand he has the Flag, in the other the Constitution/Bill of Rights. He says, "Choose which I should burn!"

Choose.

You ever consider why protestors burn flags, but not the Documents? Simple really, the Flag is more symbolic of a Territorial boundary. The Constitution and Bill of Rights is the real America, they are not limited by boundaries on a map. They are Ideas and Concepts of Universal appeal, they are the backbone of America and what makes America appealing to much of the rest of the World.

Americans would do themselves Justice if they piled all those flags up high and burnt them all. Go out and get the Constitution and Bill of Rights and hang them in your homes. Read those words, learn them, live them.
 

Mean MrMustard

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2001
3,144
10
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam


The flag stands for freedom and the day you can't burn it is the day you should. It is precisely and exactly because you can burn it that puts a lie to the act.

Quite possibly two of the best sentences ever typed in the P & N forum.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: ELP
Originally posted by: Moonbeam


The flag stands for freedom and the day you can't burn it is the day you should. It is precisely and exactly because you can burn it that puts a lie to the act.

Quite possibly two of the best sentences ever typed in the P & N forum.

I also think Moonbeam and I are in 100% agreement on an issue...for once;)

CkG
 

Dudd

Platinum Member
Aug 3, 2001
2,865
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: ELP
Originally posted by: Moonbeam


The flag stands for freedom and the day you can't burn it is the day you should. It is precisely and exactly because you can burn it that puts a lie to the act.

Quite possibly two of the best sentences ever typed in the P & N forum.

I also think Moonbeam and I are in 100% agreement on an issue...for once;)

CkG

Moonie must have had a family barbecue today and couldn't use his drugs today. I too agree completely.

 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
3
81
Originally posted by: Dudd
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: ELP
Originally posted by: Moonbeam


The flag stands for freedom and the day you can't burn it is the day you should. It is precisely and exactly because you can burn it that puts a lie to the act.

Quite possibly two of the best sentences ever typed in the P & N forum.

I also think Moonbeam and I are in 100% agreement on an issue...for once;)

CkG

Moonie must have had a family barbecue today and couldn't use his drugs today. I too agree completely.

LMAO so true.
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
On the contrary, I believe Moonbeam has always been very astute in his observations. Sometimes you just got to get through his thick layer of sarcasm and irony to see what hes really saying.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
I would probably be angry at first, but just stop and think about it. Flag burning has got to be one of the most moronic activities you can engage in if you are an American. Destroying the symbol of your country that gives you the right to burn the flag. Irony much?