Fixing Old Speakers

[ComputerWizKid]

I have Really old speakers from the '70s my dad gave them to me as he was going to throw them out as all of the drivers dry rotted and no longer sound there best (Still sound better then my 1980's Fisher Speakers) but I want to save them and use them again as the cabinet is solid wood (Don't know what kind) and not made or fiberboard or particle board like my Fishers so I was thinking about replacing all of the drivers with new ones is this the best action? as they are really bad and what about a cross over network? this is a 3-Way speaker System with a 10" woofer Don't know the measurement of the other drivers off hand though. I was going to order from Parts Express
Thanks for any help

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

I'll never understand why people insist on resurrecting 30+ year old speakers.

 

[RbSX]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I'll never understand why people insist on resurrecting 30+ year old speakers.

Agreed.

Just buy new ones, ultimately it may end up being cheaper and the SQ will be much higher.

 

[Howard]

What you're really asking is if you can salvage the old enclosures, right?

You can, but if you don't replace the front baffle (or refrain from cutting into the current one) you'll be constrained by the old driver sizes. Yes, you will need a crossover. I doubt you would be able to design one that sounded good, unless you spent a long time researching and testing.

 

[Eli]

I say go ahead and order new speakers from Parts Express to put into the boxes. The worst that will happen is that the speakers will sound like crap, and you will have gained some knowledge of speakers.

There are programs out there to help calculate some parameters based on speaker information and box size.

As far as crossovers.. well, you're going to have to learn some new stuff. How mechanically/electrically inclined are you? It's not hard to free-hand crossovers, but you'd be better off using a PCB.

Originally posted by: Howard
What you're really asking is if you can salvage the old enclosures, right?

You can, but if you don't replace the front baffle (or refrain from cutting into the current one) you'll be constrained by the old driver sizes. Yes, you will need a crossover. I doubt you would be able to design one that sounded good, unless you spent a long time researching and testing.

Pretty much.

Basically, we're asking how dedicated to this project you are. Because it is a fairly complex project, if you care at all about the end result anyway.

 

[ComputerWizKid]

Yes I'm Just trying to salvage the enclosure and I'll probably buy a PCB Crossover

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: ComputerWizKid
Yes I'm Just trying to salvage the enclosure and I'll probably buy a PCB Crossover

Not a good idea. It'd be kind of like buying a pair of shoes to wear, and you know absolutely nothing about them but the size.

What you CAN do, however, is look for DIY plans that use the same number of drivers, with those drivers being similar or slightly larger in size than the old drivers, and whose front baffles approximates the ones on the speakers you have now. We may be able to help you if you give us the "blueprints" of the baffles.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I'll never understand why people insist on resurrecting 30+ year old speakers.

Kind of like resurrecting an old car that isn't a "classic" , I guess.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: ComputerWizKid
I have Really old speakers from the '70s my dad gave them to me as he was going to throw them out as all of the drivers dry rotted and no longer sound there best (Still sound better then my 1980's Fisher Speakers) but I want to save them and use them again as the cabinet is solid wood (Don't know what kind) and not made or fiberboard or particle board like my Fishers so I was thinking about replacing all of the drivers with new ones is this the best action? as they are really bad and what about a cross over network? this is a 3-Way speaker System with a 10" woofer Don't know the measurement of the other drivers off hand though. I was going to order from Parts Express
Thanks for any help

There is no crossover in these boxes? then calculate the volume of the box, do some reading on the DIY speaker forums as well as some of the old school speaker building books and just dive into it.
I did the same with some drivers from Parts Express and was very pleased.
Speakers are like cars, most people are happy with something in the middle range.
Not everyone wants to drive a Ferrari to go grocery shopping.
There are people who think speakers are as mundane as grocery shopping.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I'll never understand why people insist on resurrecting 30+ year old speakers.

Kind of like resurrecting an old car that isn't a "classic" , I guess.

Not really, a car can be brought back to something cool... old speakers are just... old

If the OP is really looking for a project, you should do a little research, learn how to wind your own crossovers, buy some good drivers, build an enclosure to spec for the drivers and see what happens. Try building a nice two-way first. When you get those to sound good, work your way up to a larger tower speaker and see if you can do a three-way design.

 

[Eli]

He's just looking to re-use the enclosures.. he's not looking to re-foam or cone the existing speakers.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I'll never understand why people insist on resurrecting 30+ year old speakers.

Kind of like resurrecting an old car that isn't a "classic" , I guess.

Not really, a car can be brought back to something cool... old speakers are just... old

That you consider it "cool" doesn't mean someone else necessarily would, same thing for the resurrecting speaker guy.

If the OP is really looking for a project, you should do a little research, learn how to wind your own crossovers, buy some good drivers, build an enclosure to spec for the drivers and see what happens. Try building a nice two-way first. When you get those to sound good, work your way up to a larger tower speaker and see if you can do a three-way design.

Do you mean the OP should, or that I should?
I am confused as to your use of the noun "you"
I only ask because it is quite likely that I have actually done said speaker project long before you were born, thank you all the same.

< worked for HARBINGER AUDIO in Menlo Park, CA 1979 - 1986, building speaker cabinets, crossovers and assembling them into systems for Mark Wayne's DEVO tour of 198?. Also spent time (1982 - 1984) working for Sound On Stage, as they developed their "Power Piston" cabinets.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

If your really want to resurect them, have them reconed. Otherwize just replace them.

 

[0roo0roo]

get some kit speakers if you want ot start tweaking

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
I'll never understand why people insist on resurrecting 30+ year old speakers.

Kind of like resurrecting an old car that isn't a "classic" , I guess.

Not really, a car can be brought back to something cool... old speakers are just... old

That you consider it "cool" doesn't mean someone else necessarily would, same thing for the resurrecting speaker guy.

If the OP is really looking for a project, you should do a little research, learn how to wind your own crossovers, buy some good drivers, build an enclosure to spec for the drivers and see what happens. Try building a nice two-way first. When you get those to sound good, work your way up to a larger tower speaker and see if you can do a three-way design.

Do you mean the OP should, or that I should?
I am confused as to your use of the noun "you"
I only ask because it is quite likely that I have actually done said speaker project long before you were born, thank you all the same.

< worked for HARBINGER AUDIO in Menlo Park, CA 1979 - 1986, building speaker cabinets, crossovers and assembling them into systems for Mark Wayne's DEVO tour of 198?. Also spent time (1982 - 1984) working for Sound On Stage, as they developed their "Power Piston" cabinets.

I thought I was pretty clear there... Was addressing the OP

But it's cool that you know how to do all of that stuff. I wouldn't assume people's ages around here though... I was very much alive in '79.

 

[BUTCH1]

If the box is not vented you can find the right driver to match the enclosure size (Vas)
without much fuss. Vented enclosures are more efficient but are more complicated to
work with. Crossovers can be of the shelf, no need to make your own. Solid wood
should yield good results and it will be a fun project for you too!...

 

[Howard]

Vas is not the enclosure size, and off-the-shelf crossovers rarely work well for any given application. It's also pretty easy to turn a vented enclosure into a sealed one.

I'm staying away from the "solid wood = good" thing.

 

[IGBT]

..I rebuilt a pair of Acoustic Research AR9LS. Recieved full support from AR's engineering dept. They made recommendations on upgrade speakers with rot resistint edges and a new tweeter assy. Also replaced and upgraded the 4 way cross over (no resistors..inductors and capicators only). Used Monster cable on the internal wiring to the crossover and speakers. The AR9LS has a 12" main woofer with a 10" down firing sub woofer. 8" midrange.. dome upper mid and dome tweeter. Their 51" tall and weigh over 100 lbs. I used a furniture dolly to move em around during the rebuild. Was it worth it? Yes. Had a great time working with AR and doing the work my self and ended up with a pair of speakers that are second to none with the exception of a good pait of electrostatics. The AR9LS went out of production 20 years ago but they show up on ebay or yard sales from time to time. The AR9LS was actually a down sized version of AR's top of the line AR10 Pi which was aprox 65" high and had 2 12" side mounted passive radatiors. I've never seen a pair of AR10 Pi on the used market..

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: Howard
Vas is not the enclosure size, and off-the-shelf crossovers rarely work well for any given application. It's also pretty easy to turn a vented enclosure into a sealed one.

I'm staying away from the "solid wood = good" thing.

Vas is the measure of compliance of a woofers suspension and must be closely matched to box
volume for best result and proper woofer loading. Also long as the crossovers are matched to
a given driver's range it doesn't matter if it's homemade or off the shelf, some are of better
quality components than others but it's a simple filter circuit. Get one with an L-pad to help
match different tweeter and mids together.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: IGBT
..I rebuilt a pair of Acoustic Research AR9LS. Recieved full support from AR's engineering dept. They made recommendations on upgrade speakers with rot resistint edges and a new tweeter assy. Also replaced and upgraded the 4 way cross over (no resistors..inductors and capicators only). Used Monster cable on the internal wiring to the crossover and speakers. The AR9LS has a 12" main woofer with a 10" down firing sub woofer. 8" midrange.. dome upper mid and dome tweeter. Their 51" tall and weigh over 100 lbs. I used a furniture dolly to move em around during the rebuild. Was it worth it? Yes. Had a great time working with AR and doing the work my self and ended up with a pair of speakers that are second to none with the exception of a good pait of electrostatics. The AR9LS went out of production 20 years ago but they show up on ebay or yard sales from time to time. The AR9LS was actually a down sized version of AR's top of the line AR10 Pi which was aprox 65" high and had 2 12" side mounted passive radatiors. I've never seen a pair of AR10 Pi on the used market..

That , to me , was as good a rebuild story as any CAR rebuild story I've heard.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: IGBT
..I rebuilt a pair of Acoustic Research AR9LS. Recieved full support from AR's engineering dept. They made recommendations on upgrade speakers with rot resistint edges and a new tweeter assy. Also replaced and upgraded the 4 way cross over (no resistors..inductors and capicators only). Used Monster cable on the internal wiring to the crossover and speakers. The AR9LS has a 12" main woofer with a 10" down firing sub woofer. 8" midrange.. dome upper mid and dome tweeter. Their 51" tall and weigh over 100 lbs. I used a furniture dolly to move em around during the rebuild. Was it worth it? Yes. Had a great time working with AR and doing the work my self and ended up with a pair of speakers that are second to none with the exception of a good pait of electrostatics. The AR9LS went out of production 20 years ago but they show up on ebay or yard sales from time to time. The AR9LS was actually a down sized version of AR's top of the line AR10 Pi which was aprox 65" high and had 2 12" side mounted passive radatiors. I've never seen a pair of AR10 Pi on the used market..

Wow... Sweet.


This thread is making me want to re-build my speakers. The foam is starting to get nasty.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: IGBT
..I rebuilt a pair of Acoustic Research AR9LS. Recieved full support from AR's engineering dept. They made recommendations on upgrade speakers with rot resistint edges and a new tweeter assy. Also replaced and upgraded the 4 way cross over (no resistors..inductors and capicators only). Used Monster cable on the internal wiring to the crossover and speakers. The AR9LS has a 12" main woofer with a 10" down firing sub woofer. 8" midrange.. dome upper mid and dome tweeter. Their 51" tall and weigh over 100 lbs. I used a furniture dolly to move em around during the rebuild. Was it worth it? Yes. Had a great time working with AR and doing the work my self and ended up with a pair of speakers that are second to none with the exception of a good pait of electrostatics. The AR9LS went out of production 20 years ago but they show up on ebay or yard sales from time to time. The AR9LS was actually a down sized version of AR's top of the line AR10 Pi which was aprox 65" high and had 2 12" side mounted passive radatiors. I've never seen a pair of AR10 Pi on the used market..

That , to me , was as good a rebuild story as any CAR rebuild story I've heard.

Text

..lots of polarized opinions on the AR9, AR9LS and AR9LSI they represent a great value and a fun rebuild project if you can find em.



The Teledyne AR9 is IMO the ultimate expression of Edgar Vilcher's conceptualization of a full range multi driver acoustic suspension loudspeaker system. It took AR about 20 years to evolve its high end design to that point. It uses almost every advance in technology AR developed including dome midranges and tweeters and ferrofluid cooling. I have enhanced my AR9s with indirect firing tweeters and carefully equalized them using both a 10 band equalizer and the program controls on the speaker itself. They are in this arrangement an outstanding speaker and can hold their own IMO against anything. You will find it very hard to beat their bass performance at any price even today. They can produce extraordinary deep loud distortion free bass that is very musical but can also excite every room resonance you have. The thought that went into the engineering of this system is far greater than for most. You can read Tim Holl's explanation of everything from the crossover design to the driver arrangement on Arsenal's website;
http://www.arsenal.net/ Many people consider a slightly later version, the AR9LS to be of lesser performance.
The NHT 3.3 is probably a very fine speaker. Ken Kantor had a large hand in the design of it. It uses the famous Toneegen 12" driver but it has only one 12 inch driver per cabinet. In good condition, I'd say up to $600 to $800 is a fair price for a restored pair of Teledyne AR9s. BTW, it is a tough speaker to drive in the sense that it is nominally 4 ohms although its power requirements are relatively modest. It can however handle up to 400 wpc at low frequencies. Its overall tonal balance is of course adjustable but in keeping with AR's basic goals and design philosophy of that era, it strives to be as musically accurate as possible. If you are looking for some sort of exaggerated sound, this is not it.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: Howard
Vas is not the enclosure size, and off-the-shelf crossovers rarely work well for any given application. It's also pretty easy to turn a vented enclosure into a sealed one.

I'm staying away from the "solid wood = good" thing.

Vas is the measure of compliance of a woofers suspension and must be closely matched to box
volume for best result and proper woofer loading. Also long as the crossovers are matched to
a given driver's range it doesn't matter if it's homemade or off the shelf, some are of better
quality components than others but it's a simple filter circuit. Get one with an L-pad to help
match different tweeter and mids together.

Crossover design is more than just picking out frequency ranges.

 

[Howard]

dp

 

[jadinolf]

Originally posted by: ComputerWizKid
I have Really old speakers from the '70s my dad gave them to me as he was going to throw them out as all of the drivers dry rotted and no longer sound there best (Still sound better then my 1980's Fisher Speakers) but I want to save them and use them again as the cabinet is solid wood (Don't know what kind) and not made or fiberboard or particle board like my Fishers so I was thinking about replacing all of the drivers with new ones is this the best action? as they are really bad and what about a cross over network? this is a 3-Way speaker System with a 10" woofer Don't know the measurement of the other drivers off hand though. I was going to order from Parts Express
Thanks for any help

Shirley you jest.

Get new ones.