Fixing a tripping GFC outlet

[lupi]

Came across a gfc outlet that instantly trips even with nothing plugged into the load outlets. Disconnected a load terminal from the breaker and it stays shut.

Looking into the box further and noticed the line wire ground is left unconnected and load ground connected to the gfc ground. Do I just need to connect line side ground to the outlet to fix this?

 

[Micrornd]

It needs to be connected for the GFI to work properly, and if that doesn't fix it, replace the GFI.
It may have been unhooked in some false sense of repairing it.

 

[lupi]

Connected the line side ground, reset breaker. was good for about 3 minutes then tripped again and won't reset. next up will be to try a new breaker.

Was told it had a history of tripping but never didn't reset right after until now when it won't. hoping just a faulty breaker, possibly due to the ground issue.

 

[Micrornd]

Wait - Is it a breaker or an outlet (receptacle)?
You've said both in your posts and it does makes a difference.

 

[lupi]

Outlet. I've disconnected all downstream outlets except a light and ceiling fan and it still trips.

Connect load and line wires at the outlet together and panel breaker didnt trup, so seems some type of ground sensing issue.

starting to take the fan down to check the wiring there now.

 

[natto fire]

Outlet. I've disconnected all downstream outlets except a light and ceiling fan and it still trips.

Connect load and line wires at the outlet together and panel breaker didnt trup, so seems some type of ground sensing issue.

starting to take the fan down to check the wiring there now.

I would guess the ground and neutral are touching somewhere downstream. Do a continuity test on your load wiring from ground to neutral. If it shows continuity, check your wiring downstream to make sure the neutral and grounds are isolated.

If it shows an open, then you might have bad GFCI receptacle. Is the tripping random, or is it when trying to operate a load?

GFCIs don't need a ground to work, they are the only code compliant way to have a grounding receptacle without a ground present. That is why they include the "no equipment ground" stickers.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[lupi]

Well, fixed in the traditional WTF moment of troubleshooting.

Started working on the ceiling fan like I said, and turns out that one of the bulbs had become broken at the base. So removed the bulb, put everything back together and no longer having any outlet tripping.

 

[mxnerd]

I think GFCI downstream is for outlets only, why light and ceiling fan fixtures?

 

[lupi]

Can't say, it's an older house and the wiring goes through the bathroom into the bedroom, with everything but the bathroom lights feed through the gfci circuit.

 

[natto fire]

Well, fixed ithe in the traditional WTF moment of troubleshooting.

Starting working on the ceiling fan like I said, and turns out that one of the bulbs had become broken at the base. So removed the bulb, put everything back together and no longer having any outlet tripping.

Good troubleshooting often ends up that way. What type of bulb were you dealing with there? The ballast of fluorescent lights can confuse GFCIs, especially if either part is not operating at peak.

I think GFCI downstream is for outlets only, why light and ceiling fan fixtures?

I found this odd as well, and almost asked if it was tripping when trying to use the fan. Some motors don't play nice with GFI. Dyson vacuums come to mind, but I have heard of fluorescent ballasts as well. Don't even get me started on nuisance trips caused by arc fault circuit interrupters (AFCI).

Most single phase motors of significant power output use a capacitor to lag/lead the AC waveform. This creates a faux polyphase, which is wired to the field windings directly.

Most motors in this configuration do fine with ground fault, as the power still returns on the neutral, just lagged a cycle.

A ceiling fan more than likely does not have this type of motor, but I doubt it is shaded pole or squirrel cage either. Definitely an induction type, though.

 

[lupi]

It was a candelabra style incandescent bulb.

 

[stormkroe]

I think GFCI downstream is for outlets only, why light and ceiling fan fixtures?

Sometimes it's required

30-320 Lighting equipment in damp locations or near grounded metal

(1) Where luminaires are installed in damp locations or within 2.5m vertically or 1.5m horizontally of laundry tubs, plumbing fixtures, steam pipes, or other grounded metal work or grounded surfaces, the luminaires shall be controlled by a wall switch, except as permitted in Subrule(2).

(2)Outlet-box-type luminaires marked for use in damp locations and luminaires marked for use in wet locations, with an integral switch, shall be permitted to be installed under the conditions of Subrule(1).

(3)Switches (including wall switches) controlling luminaires covered by Subrules (1) and (2) shall
(a) be located not less than 1 m from a bathtub or shower stall (this distance being measured horizontally between the switch and the bathtub or shower stall, without piercing a wall, partition, or similar obstacle); or
(b) if the condition in Item (a) is not practicable, be located not less than 500 mm from a bathtub or shower stall and be protected by a ground fault circuit interrupter of the Class A type.

 

[NutBucket]

Can't say, it's an older house and the wiring goes through the bathroom into the bedroom, with everything but the bathroom lights feed through the gfci circuit.

Yep, I've had this happen before. When you have an older house that originally had 4 - 6 circuits lots of things are tied together in ways that simply aren't done anymore.

Sort of like the old days of computers when it was absurd to need a 50meg hard drive or 2 megs of RAM. Why would we ever need more than a 30 or 60 amp service? My parent's house had a 30-amp, 4 circuit service with glass fuses until about a decade ago. Never caused them any problems.