Fish tank woes

[cvrefugee]

I'm at my wits end here. First I need to explain the back story:

Back in August or September 2012 I purchased a 29-gallon fish tank from Petco. This isn't my first time with a fish tank, as I have been successfully running a small 10-gallon tank with two goldfish in it for nearly four years.

I set up the tank, began cycling it, and brought my water to Petco for testing. The guy said everything looked great but the pH was a little high, so he told me to use a product called API Proper pH 7.5. This was the biggest mistake I ever made in listening to him. The product ruined my tank completely, leaving it permanently cloudy. I had to drain the water and start over. Petco did replace my pump as it was ruined, but I kept the existing plastic plants, castle, and gravel. Here are a couple of pictures from the aftermath:

Well, the second mistake I made was after draining the tank I did not wash out the gravel. There was some of that Proper pH 7.5 salt-like stuff still in there, unbeknownst to me. I only found out after setting up the tank for the second time and having my water tested only to be told my ammonia levels were high. Also there was a milky-white substance that began to cover my castle. I took it out and scrubbed it down, vacuumed the gravel and replaced the castle. A few days later the substance came back. I drained it again and that's when I discovered more of the undissolved Proper pH 7.5 at the bottom. Here are some pictures of the first white jizz attack:

Now that you're up to speed, this is the latest development. Tired of having problems, I let the tank dry up completely as it sat there for months. Last Thursday I had the day off and decided to try again. This time I removed all the gravel and washed it. I cleaned out the inside of the tank with water and drained it. I replaced the gravel, put new water in, placed my plants and even exchanged the castle for a brand-new one. The tank has been running for almost a week and the white substance is back. This time it's not growing on the castle, but rather on random spots at the bottom where the gravel is. Here's a picture I just took today:

I've searched online for several hours and cannot identify with certainty what this stuff is, why it's growing, where it came from, and how to effectively get rid of it. This is extremely frustrating as I've been wanting to transfer my two goldfish from the old tank to this one. I know this is just a general forum but I figured there might be someone out there with some information I can use.

 

[Legios]

Have you found a small reputable pet store near you where you can take your discovery to see what they say. I treat my tank like a science experiment and havent had the luck you are experiencing.

 

[deanx0r]

Do you use a RO unit? or is the water straight from the tap? Is the water coming from a well? Can you test for water hardness?

 

[Rubycon]

Sounds like a hardness problem. (calcium carbonate precipitating out)
Testing for pH without testing general hardness (GH) or total alkalinity is not recommended!

Temporary ways to lower/raise pH in freshwater aquaria usually are handled with adding small amounts of phosphoric acid or sodium bicarbonate. Aluminum hydroxide may be used as well.

A test of your source (tap?) water is needed. If its pH is buffered around 7.6 for example and you add a "pH locker" which is increasing the hardness with a central buffer you can increase the hardness to the point of seeing precipitate form. This could be the white stuff you're seeing.

You can replace the gravel and ornaments OR wash them in a solution based on three parts vinegar (3% acetic acid). Rinse three times. For parts that are "coated" you may want to move up to 50/50 tap water / vinegar solution and allow them to sit overnight.

Once rinsed properly you can set everything back up.
If you water is hard you can soften it with ion exchange resin in a power filter, etc. Get this under control preferably before seeding for nitrobacter/nitrosomanas colonization of your biological filter (approx 4-6 weeks for ammonia/nitrite peaks). Then introduce lifeforms slowly and allow colonies to become established.

At this time water in a 29H should be clear enough only to be visible with a 5mW laser pointer, for example. (bodies of water this small kind of make Secchi turbidity metric useless!) :biggrin:

 

[cvrefugee]

No RO is being used. The water is straight from the tap. I fill up 5-gallon buckets from my tub. I know the water where I live is hard and has a strong smell of chlorine. I use the appropriate amount of water conditioner to remove the chlorine and chloramine.

 

[evident]

get yourself an api water test kit so you can do your parameter measurements at home.

 

[Rubycon]

Hach and LaMotte are good test kits producing accurate results.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Sounds like a hardness problem. (calcium carbonate precipitating out)
Testing for pH without testing general hardness (GH) or total alkalinity is not recommended!

Temporary ways to lower/raise pH in freshwater aquaria usually are handled with adding small amounts of phosphoric acid or sodium bicarbonate. Aluminum hydroxide may be used as well.

A test of your source (tap?) water is needed. If its pH is buffered around 7.6 for example and you add a "pH locker" which is increasing the hardness with a central buffer you can increase the hardness to the point of seeing precipitate form. This could be the white stuff you're seeing.

You can replace the gravel and ornaments OR wash them in a solution based on three parts vinegar (3% acetic acid). Rinse three times. For parts that are "coated" you may want to move up to 50/50 tap water / vinegar solution and allow them to sit overnight.

Once rinsed properly you can set everything back up.
If you water is hard you can soften it with ion exchange resin in a power filter, etc. Get this under control preferably before seeding for nitrobacter/nitrosomanas colonization of your biological filter (approx 4-6 weeks for ammonia/nitrite peaks). Then introduce lifeforms slowly and allow colonies to become established.

At this time water in a 29H should be clear enough only to be visible with a 5mW laser pointer, for example. (bodies of water this small kind of make Secchi turbidity metric useless!) :biggrin:

wowza---I Love your style!!!

 

[randay]

I think its some kind of fungus/mold/algae. I had a similiar growth on a drift wood before. I would dunk the drift wood in boiling water to kill algae on it, then when i returned it to my tank similiar white stuff would grow on it. fortunately I had a red-tail shark that loved to eat the stuff so it never took hold. my guess would be its not directly related to your water quality problems or the ph stuff you used.

Its hard to see from the pics but if its the same thing I had... try throwing in some guppies and see if they eat it?

 

[Schmide]

Dude your fish guy is a dumbass.

Looks like a white fungus. It comes from excess bio-matter (food, poo, dirt, etc) that settles in stagnate areas. Once it blooms it goes everywhere. Your fish tank has not created the proper bacteria to break it down and balance things.

Do not worry about PH balance!!! Proper filtering and aeration should keep water in normal levels without the need for chemicals, especially with fresh water. You may have hard water, but the carbon should keep that in check. The biggest thing is all new water be treated with an ammonia/chlorine remover like prime.

You should maybe change the food you're using as well. Maybe go to a algae tablet for a while.

A below ground filter will also help, as well as a Plecostomus or like fish, snails work but can cause other problems as well.

 

[T9D]

Probably a bacteria buildup.

Perhaps try totally sanitizing the tank by dumping some chlorine in from a pool store. That will kill everything or sure.

Let it all dissipate out.

Then try not cycling the tank. I know everyone is gungho about tank cycling but with only a couple fish you should be fine. I never cycle my tanks. Just let the water run a few days to get the chlorine out. Never had a problem. My fish are always happy. And it may help to balance things out more naturally.

 

[Rubycon]

GAC (Granular Activated Carbon) is used to adsorb dissolved organics. It does not change hardness of water notably. Some products that are prepackaged in a meshed bag (ex Chemipure) will have ion exchange resin that will soften the water.

 

[cvrefugee]

Sounds like a hardness problem. (calcium carbonate precipitating out)
Testing for pH without testing general hardness (GH) or total alkalinity is not recommended!

Temporary ways to lower/raise pH in freshwater aquaria usually are handled with adding small amounts of phosphoric acid or sodium bicarbonate. Aluminum hydroxide may be used as well.

A test of your source (tap?) water is needed. If its pH is buffered around 7.6 for example and you add a "pH locker" which is increasing the hardness with a central buffer you can increase the hardness to the point of seeing precipitate form. This could be the white stuff you're seeing.

You can replace the gravel and ornaments OR wash them in a solution based on three parts vinegar (3% acetic acid). Rinse three times. For parts that are "coated" you may want to move up to 50/50 tap water / vinegar solution and allow them to sit overnight.

Once rinsed properly you can set everything back up.
If you water is hard you can soften it with ion exchange resin in a power filter, etc. Get this under control preferably before seeding for nitrobacter/nitrosomanas colonization of your biological filter (approx 4-6 weeks for ammonia/nitrite peaks). Then introduce lifeforms slowly and allow colonies to become established.

At this time water in a 29H should be clear enough only to be visible with a 5mW laser pointer, for example. (bodies of water this small kind of make Secchi turbidity metric useless!) :biggrin:

I'll be picking up a water testing kit today. For now I'll bring two samples, one from the source of my water and the other from the tank. Your knowledge is extremely helpful I just have to figure this out bit by bit. I just took out my castle and plants. The pump is still running.

I think its some kind of fungus/mold/algae. I had a similiar growth on a drift wood before. I would dunk the drift wood in boiling water to kill algae on it, then when i returned it to my tank similiar white stuff would grow on it. fortunately I had a red-tail shark that loved to eat the stuff so it never took hold. my guess would be its not directly related to your water quality problems or the ph stuff you used.

Its hard to see from the pics but if its the same thing I had... try throwing in some guppies and see if they eat it?

What's weird is how I had no problems until I used the pH junk.

Dude your fish guy is a dumbass.

Looks like a white fungus. It comes from excess bio-matter (food, poo, dirt, etc) that settles in stagnate ares. Once it blooms it goes everywhere. Your fish tank has not created the proper bacteria to break it down and balance things.

Do not worry about PH balance!!! Proper filtering and aeration should keep water in normal levels without the need for chemicals, especially with fresh water. You may have hard water, but the carbon should keep that in check. The biggest thing is all new water be treated with an ammonia/chlorine remover like prime.

You should maybe change the food you're using as well. Maybe go to a algae tablet for a while.

A below ground filter will also help, as well as a Plecostomus or like fish, snails work but can cause other problems as well.

I don't have any fish in my tank yet, so no food.

 

[Rubycon]

Is that pH 7.5 a liquid or powder? How much did you use?

After seeing the pics (yes my internet is really slow) load the fuzzy stuff looks to be fungal in nature. The ORP is probably very low in that system. Since you don't have any stock in that tank you could treat it to remove by shocking it. 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide will work as will Potassium permanganate. Both of these materials are dangerous if you're not familiar with handling and treatment procedures! The bleach method works as well but you will need to pick up a residual chlorine test kit to ensure you are cl free before starting again.

 

[cvrefugee]

Is that pH 7.5 a liquid or powder? How much did you use?

After seeing the pics (yes my internet is really slow) load the fuzzy stuff looks to be fungal in nature. The ORP is probably very low in that system. Since you don't have any stock in that tank you could treat it to remove by shocking it. 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide will work as will Potassium permanganate. Both of these materials are dangerous if you're not familiar with handling and treatment procedures! The bleach method works as well but you will need to pick up a residual chlorine test kit to ensure you are cl free before starting again.

It was a powder and I used the amount it said for the size of my tank - http://www.petco.com/product/4064/API-Proper-pH.aspx?Ntt=proper ph 7.5&OneResultRedirect=1

 

[Schmide]

I don't have any fish in my tank yet, so no food.

??? So you're trying to balance a tank without organics?

Fish and algae do a big part in balancing water. Most waters have calcium and magnesium that make it alkaline. Poo and plant matter break down and make it acidic.

I would remove the small amount of fungus, get a Plecostomus and a cheap plant. The plant will prob not do well but it's death will help start the system. The Plecostomus will not die, it will poo a lot and that will start the system.

 

[cvrefugee]

??? So you're trying to balance a tank without organics?

Fish and algae do a big part in balancing water. Most waters have calcium and magnesium that make it alkaline. Poo and plant matter break down and make it acidic.

I would remove the small amount of fungus, get a Plecostomus and a cheap plant. The plant will prob not do well but it's death will help start the system. The Plecostomus will not die, it will poo a lot and that will start the system.

I just wanted the water to be stable for the transfer of my existing fish. I didn't thinking running it without fish for less than a week would cause this issue. The last thing I want to do is kill my fish just to get the tank ready. Do the Plecos get along with goldfish?

EDIT: So I took my filter out and I don't think it should look this dirty. It was brand-new when I put it in last Saturday. There's a pink hue to it which is the same color of the Proper pH 7.5 salt-like stuff I found when draining the tank the first two times. So should I just throw away the gravel or nuke the water with something to kill it?

 

[BoomerD]

First...calm the fuck down. NOTHING good happens in an aquarium quickly.

Cycling an aquarium usually takes 4-6 weeks if done correctly, but can be done in 2-3 weeks if you're diligent and do everything just right..

The tank won't even start to cycle without some source of ammonia. Some people use ammonia from a bottle, others use live fish...I prefer to toss in a small piece of shrimp and let it rot...yes, it will stink for a while, but that goes away.

Every time you take out the rocks and "wash" them, you basically end the cycle...and it will have to start all over again.

Patience, young jedi...patience.

Here's a decent site for basic aquarium knowledge:

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/

One of the best in the biz...Robert Fenner offers this:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwestcycling.htm

 

[randay]

I just wanted the water to be stable for the transfer of my existing fish. I didn't thinking running it without fish for less than a week would cause this issue. The last thing I want to do is kill my fish just to get the tank ready. Do the Plecos get along with goldfish?

You might not understand what cycling a tank is. You actually need to have fish in there to cycle. If you put just plain water there and expected things to stabilize that would be your main problem.

The idea is to throw fish you dont care about into the tank, and feed and care for them normally and not have to worry about if the fish die from poor water quality. Usually you would use a hardy species so they probably wont die even with poor water quality. Eventually the tank will accumulate all the necessary bacteria and then it will be ready for the fish that you do care about.

If you just have goldfish then you probably dont need to cycle the tank at all since they are usually quite hardy unless you have some fancy super inbred goldfish...

 

[BoomerD]

You might not understand what cycling a tank is. You actually need to have fish in there to cycle. If you put just plain water there and expected things to stabilize that would be your main problem.

The idea is to throw fish you dont care about into the tank, and feed and care for them normally and not have to worry about if the fish die from poor water quality. Usually you would use a hardy species so they probably wont die even with poor water quality. Eventually the tank will accumulate all the necessary bacteria and then it will be ready for the fish that you do care about.

If you just have goldfish then you probably dont need to cycle the tank at all since they are usually quite hardy unless you have some fancy super inbred goldfish...

IMO, using live fish to cycle a tank is barbaric. Yes, it works...but it often kills the fish. Why not use a piece of fresh or frozen shrimp instead?

 

[Schmide]

Plecos get along with almost anything. They are no fun for other fish to bite and generally keep to their selves. My Upside Down Catfish and Plecostomus fight all the time but never hurt each other. It's mostly pushing the other to another cover area. If you get one make sure it has a cover area.

Edit: BTW if you have an existing fishtank, add that water (with plenty of poo) to help get the bio started.

 

[randay]

IMO, using live fish to cycle a tank is barbaric. Yes, it works...but it often kills the fish. Why not use a piece of fresh or frozen shrimp instead?

maybe barbaric... if you use something hardy that wont die then maybe not so barbaric. also i guess i dont have as much of a bond with fish that one would with say... something a little more furry.

That said I havent cycled a tank in years. All I do is reuse substrates and filters and instead of cycling its more like a 90% water change.

 

[Rubycon]

IMO, using live fish to cycle a tank is barbaric. Yes, it works...but it often kills the fish. Why not use a piece of fresh or frozen shrimp instead?

It's ok because fish don't have feelings. Damsel in distress be damned! :biggrin:

Inorganic seeding is possible but you must closely monitor ammonia and then nitrite levels and have strong aeration. It produces results that can support relatively heavy fish load quickly without excessive build up of dissolved organics which must be controlled by water changes and chemical filtration.

Freshwater fishes can take higher ammonia levels because the pH in fresh water systems is significantly lower which equates to an over all lower level of "free" ammonia. Look up a chart of free ammonia vs. pH and compare the two (7.0 vs. 8.3).

I've always liked Stephen Spotte's Captive Marine Fishes and was given this hardcover as a gift back in the early 90s. Had no idea it was that expensive!

http://www.amazon.com/Captive-Seawat.../dp/0471545546

I was never much of a hobbyist, I was in the industry so pardon my jargon if you would.

 

[NutBucket]

Or you can cheat and use starter bacteria in a bottle. Definitely a wide range of opinions on this but it worked fine for my tank.

http://www.tetra-fish.com/sites/tetrafish/catalog/Detail.aspx?id=4224

 

[Gillbot]

I haven't read the thread, but I ditched my gravel and went to glass rock. Solved 95% of my problems. RO water is also a good idea.