Fiscally conservative, socially liberal peeps, which way do you vote?

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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Libertarian is more or less the best fit, but many people choose to vote Republican or Democrat to vote against "the lesser of two evils". If you had to (or choose) to pick one of the two major parties, which do you usually tend to swing?

To clarify, I classify the following

Fiscally conservative:
- in favor of SS reform
- more strict welfare enforcement
- end of EITC
- reduction/abolishment of state/federal funded medical care

Socially liberal
- in favor of gun control of some form(not necessarily banning)
- pro-choice
- support decriminalization of lesser drugs
- in favor of sex education being taught in schools

Those are just the tip of the iceberg, and and aren't necessarily the most important(or prominent) issues that each platform has, but they are often the most talked about.

So, my question is, for those of you with similar views, which one is more important, and which way do you usually vote?
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
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libertarian is what I plan to vote next week, I think. I agree with every point you posted above except gun control, which complicates it even more for me.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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If you had to (or choose) to pick one of the two major parties, which do you usually tend to swing?

My litmus test is pretty simple. Whenever i only have a choice of two major party candidates, i choose the one whose positions insert the least government involvement into my life. To me, someone who wants to raid my wallet to pay for his socialist spending programs is just as bad as someone who wants to try to foist his "moral values" on me.

Essentially, any politician who tells me that he has an idea for how to "improve" my life scares me.
 

mithrandir2001

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May 1, 2001
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I look at each position individually. I split my ticket across Republican, Democrat and Libertarian candidates. That's the only way to do it, IMO.

Over time, I have voted Republican more than any other party. However, my love for Republicans has quickly faded since I've finished my "conversion" to atheism. I am far more willing to consider Democrats, especially those who are very socially liberal and just moderate enough in economic issues. Homophobes are automatically eliminated. Pro-lifers also had better be big tax cutters if they want my vote.

I'm registered Libertarian but I don't always vote Libertarian because (a) they don't have a candidate for the position, (b) the candidate is just a little too "out there", (c) it's no fun voting for a sure election loser.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
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Oct 28, 1999
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mithrandir2001

I often do the same as you, basically go down the list of things each candidate supports, and then put a tick mark in an "agree with" or "disagree" with. Compare the two, and then see which one has more "agree withs".

But, I guess that isn't good enough though, and this is where I have problems - which is more important to me if they come out even. Personal character, and political history then come into play I guess for a judges decsion :p
 

HOWITIS

Platinum Member
Apr 26, 2001
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i guess i fall into this group except i am against gun control, i'm against anything that restricts any freedom. i'm also atheist and, am not social conservative.


but i wouldn't vote for the DEMS under gun point. i'm 100% Republican.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
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too many fundies on the repub side, will stay democrat for now.

howitis, you seem to value separation between church and state too. the repubs are pretty weak on that.
 

Aceman

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Oct 9, 1999
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vi_edit, you just described a conservative Democrat. I'm a moderate Republican and I don't agree with a lot of your fiscal or social issues, yet I am not a Cristian Conservative Republican.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
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I'm an independent, I usually collect information on candidates over time by reading the paper and then choose the lesser evil that actually has a chance to win (which rules out libertarian).

Right now an extra factor pushing me towards voting Dem at the federal level is to try to keep the Republicans in check. If they take over the senate they'll probably decide they have a mandate for everything from criminalizing abortion and forcing Christian prayer in the schools to pushing for oil exploration over conservation and clean / renewable energy. I'm not a cruncy granola tree hugger but I'd like to see us back away from mexico city skies covering the globe.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Wait a hot minute. I'd consider myself socially liberal, but I do not faver gun control for much the same reason I don't favor the war on drugs.

Gun control is NOT socially liberal by any stretch of the term. It is socially restrictive.

Anywho, how do I vote? I vote for whoever has a history of lowering taxes, ending government waste and losening regulations on small business. Why? Because those issues are most important in my life right now.

In case people here don't know my stance on the issues you listed, here they are:
-------------
Fiscally conservative:
- in favor of SS reform --- I want it dismantled completely.
- more strict welfare enforcement --- Dismantled completely.
- end of EITC --- End it.
- reduction/abolishment of state/federal funded medical care --- Yep.

Socially liberal
- in favor of gun control of some form(not necessarily banning) --- Opposed to any more gun control laws, and some existing ones
- pro-choice --- Absolutely
- support decriminalization of lesser drugs --- Absolutely, but extend that to all currently illegal drugs
- in favor of sex education being taught in schools --- Sure, but I'm really in favor of privatizing schools, and allowing parents to make that choice.
-----------------
 

vi edit

Elite Member
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Oct 28, 1999
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Amused, I put gun control under "socially liberal" because it is an issue on many liberal platforms.

It can range all the way from the banning of guns, down to background checks before issuing concealed carry permits.

I put the "not necessarily banning" in there because I don't agree with that. But, I am in favor of selective issuing of concealed cary permits. I don't think that anybody should be given them like a drivers license. I also agree with laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons into bars and things like concerts and sporting events. They just don't have a place there.

 

Aceman

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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: vi_edit
Amused, I put gun control under "socially liberal" because it is an issue on many liberal platforms.

It can range all the way from the banning of guns, down to background checks before issuing concealed carry permits.

I put the "not necessarily banning" in there because I don't agree with that. But, I am in favor of selective issuing of concealed cary permits. I don't think that anybody should be given them like a drivers license. I also agree with laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons into bars and things like concerts and sporting events. They just don't have a place there.

The concealed carry permits work fine in South Dakota. Everyone that wants to own a handgun must apply for a concealed weapons permit. Hasn't increased or decreased any crimes involving a weapon.

 

vi edit

Elite Member
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Yeh, but there's 17 people in SD, 13 of which are pheasant and/or deer hunters :p

Seriously though, South Dakota isn't a very good indicator. The city of Peoria, IL has more murders a year than the entire state of SD. Also, I may be uninformed on what exactly it takes to get a concealed carry permit, but I feel that a saftey course and some sort of proficiency test should be the bear minimums needed to aquire a CC.
 

Aceman

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Oct 9, 1999
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Here you go..... SD Concealed Weapons Permit process and laws

South Dakota may actually be a perfect example of how well concealed weapons permits work. Moreover, it just proves that people in more densely populated areas can't ever play nicely with each other and are just...... more dense!

BTW, it's a simple process. Just go see the local sheriff, fill out a form and in 7 days or less you can walk down to the gunshop and buy whatever you want.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: vi_edit
Amused, I put gun control under "socially liberal" because it is an issue on many liberal platforms.

It can range all the way from the banning of guns, down to background checks before issuing concealed carry permits.

I put the "not necessarily banning" in there because I don't agree with that. But, I am in favor of selective issuing of concealed cary permits. I don't think that anybody should be given them like a drivers license. I also agree with laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons into bars and things like concerts and sporting events. They just don't have a place there.

Can you guess which state it is legal for any law abiding gun owner to CC?
 

Amused

Elite Member
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Originally posted by: vi_edit
Yeh, but there's 17 people in SD, 13 of which are pheasant and/or deer hunters :p

Seriously though, South Dakota isn't a very good indicator. The city of Peoria, IL has more murders a year than the entire state of SD. Also, I may be uninformed on what exactly it takes to get a concealed carry permit, but I feel that a saftey course and some sort of proficiency test should be the bear minimums needed to aquire a CC.

You do know that CC is completely illegal in IL, right? In fact, IL has some of the strictest gun control laws of any state. Why is it then, that crime is so high here, even in medium sized cities like Peoria?
 

Amused

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Originally posted by: vi_edit
Can you guess which state it is legal for any law abiding gun owner to CC?

State? I would imagine it would be plural.

Nope, only one allows CC without permit. Can you guess?

I guess I should have mentioned the "without permit" part, huh? :eek:
 

vi edit

Elite Member
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You do know that CC is completely illegal in IL, right? In fact, IL has some of the strictest gun control laws of any state. Why is it then, that crime is so high here, even in medium sized cities like Peoria?

Peoria was an unfair example on my part. It's got an extremely high amount of gang activity that trickles down from Chicago. The amount of gang activity is largely due to drug trafficing and many of the murders are due to gang rivalry or drug deals gone bad.

It's sort of diverting the subject, but if drugs were legalized, I think you'd see Peoria's crime rate go down quite a bit. I really doubt you'd see a drastic drop in murder rates in Peoria if Illinois had CC.
 

Amused

Elite Member
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Originally posted by: vi_edit
You do know that CC is completely illegal in IL, right? In fact, IL has some of the strictest gun control laws of any state. Why is it then, that crime is so high here, even in medium sized cities like Peoria?

Peoria was an unfair example on my part. It's got an extremely high amount of gang activity that trickles down from Chicago. The amount of gang activity is largely due to drug trafficing and many of the murders are due to gang rivalry or drug deals gone bad.

It's sort of diverting the subject, but if drugs were legalized, I think you'd see Peoria's crime rate go down quite a bit. I really doubt you'd see a drastic drop in murder rates in Peoria if Illinois had CC.

Maybe, maybe not... but I bet you'd see a drastic drop in victimization of innocent folks if the ban on CC was lifted. In no place where CC laws have been eased has crime risen. In fact, the opposite has happened without exception.

Still can't guess which state doesn't require permits for CC? :D
 

Feanor727

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Sep 17, 2001
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Since this thread hasn't turned to a flame war yet, maybe I could get some help identifying where I fall in the political spectrum.

Issue -- My Opinion
--------------------------
Gun Control -- Require safety course and license for _any_ gun ownership, but abolish registration
Abortion -- Ideally Pro-Life, but realistically ban on 2nd, 3rd trimester (except in cases where the mother's life is legitimately threatened) and partial-birth abortions
SS -- Leave it alone, really, completely alone. Quit dipping into the coffers. and maybe there'll be some left after 50 years
Defense -- Increase funding to intelligence programs and decrease funding to weapons research.
Education -- Increase the quality of public schools so that the need for private/home schooling is reduced (although still an option)
Death Penalty -- Abolish it, and make life without parole truly mean without parole in every state
Illegal Immigrants -- Keep our borders open, but require some sort of enforceable yet attainable due process for valid immigration. If that process is not followed, kick their sorry butts out. Abolish the law stating that any child born within the borders is a citizen regardless of parental status. Make English our official language, thereby requiring its knowledge.
Drugs -- End the "War on Drugs", legalize and tax the living sh!t out of marijuana. Funnel the money into education.
Health Care -- Much stricter regulations on the interactions between doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and insurance firms.
 

ScottyB

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Jan 28, 2002
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I want to go too:

Gun Control -- Register handguns, no automatic weapons without a special permit.
Abortion -- Good up until the 5-month, after that only if it is an emergency.
SS -- Keep it going, people that make over 100,000 a year can't collect but must pay.
Defense -- Smaller military, less money going into it.
Education -- More money for education.
Death Penalty -- None in any state, possible parole after 25 years with good behavior mandatory release after 55 years.
Illegal Immigrants -- Shoot them once they cross the border.
Drugs -- Alcohol, tobacco and all current illegal drugs to be illegal. Doctors can prescribe marihuana to their patients.
Health Care -- Free medical to everyone.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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I have a very hard time voting:

Fiscally conservative:
- in favor of SS reform --- I think it's fine the way it is but for the life-long very low income folks needs to expand a little
- more strict welfare enforcement --- I agree with Clintons plan 5 years spaced 2-2-1
- end of EITC --- Good for the poor working who already pay more than they can afford in taxes
- reduction/abolishment of state/federal funded medical care --- Make national heath care like any other civilized country

Socially liberal
- in favor of gun control of some form(not necessarily banning) --- Opposed to any gun control laws, even background checks
- pro-choice --- NO I'm with the christain coalition here
- support decriminalization of lesser drugs --- All drugs should be legal, another consentual crime like prositution which which hurts no one but the ones consenting to the activity
- in favor of sex education being taught in schools --- I'm in favor.