First wave versus second wave of Covid-19

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
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I have not seen or heard any explanation for what constitutes a reasoning, definition, demarcation of first versus second wave. There's been much talk about an anticipated second wave in the fall. Things are heating up now, and some are saying it's still the first wave. Presumably a trough would be necessary to characterize a resurgence being the second wave. So, we haven't had a trough yet?
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
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The difficulty here is distinction between national level and state level. States like New York has had first wave already, their new daily cases are significantly down from the peak, NY may or may not have a second wave in the fall. On the other hands states like Texas and Florida never really had a first wave, but the way things going they're in deep shit as their daily new cases quadrupled since beginning of June. Nationally speaking, thanks to aforementioned states like Texas and Florida we're still riding the first wave. On a national level our new daily cases peaked around 39K, for a while we were down to as low as 20K new case, but today we've hit 38K new cases. We just shifted pandemic from blue states to red ones. Given how bad it is now, fall could be a total disaster.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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I have not seen or heard any explanation for what constitutes a reasoning, definition, demarcation of first versus second wave. There's been much talk about an anticipated second wave in the fall. Things are heating up now, and some are saying it's still the first wave. Presumably a trough would be necessary to characterize a resurgence being the second wave. So, we haven't had a trough yet?

It happened early on when people thought it would be seasonal, like the flu. It's not. It's relentless. There will be no respite other than what we can do with social distancing & eventually a vaccine.

And Hoovervilles, of course. Capitalism demands it.
 
Jan 25, 2011
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Yeah I’m sorry but the first wave never ended. It barely even started to decline. The previous peak was two months ago today. Today marks a new single day high and it’s going to get much worse.

EbUJ9i9WkAIV4-W.jpg
 
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Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
16,546
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Yeah I’m sorry but the first wave never ended. It barely even started to decline. The previous peak was two months ago today. Today marks a new single day high and it’s going to get much worse.

EbUJ9i9WkAIV4-W.jpg

Where is the Trumpanzee post saying that graph is a lie and made to hurt Trump?
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
41,023
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Yeah I’m sorry but the first wave never ended. It barely even started to decline. The previous peak was two months ago today. Today marks a new single day high and it’s going to get much worse.

EbUJ9i9WkAIV4-W.jpg
Oh, man, the USA is one big FAIL here. Face palm.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
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Yeah I’m sorry but the first wave never ended. It barely even started to decline. The previous peak was two months ago today. Today marks a new single day high and it’s going to get much worse.

EbUJ9i9WkAIV4-W.jpg
This chart is full of lies:
  1. There are all sorts of other lines there that they're trying to hide by not highlighting them. It's all a conspiracy to cherry-pick data to make AMERICA! look bad.
  2. That's from the European CDC; that's a government agency and Trump said you can't trust the government.
  3. The European CDC is trying to make AMERICA! look bad for having to have their asses saved by us in Double-U Double-U Two.
  4. OF COURSE the European CDC is going to make Canada and Australia look bad compared to AMERICA!, it has to look out for all of it's European members.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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This chart is full of lies:
  1. There are all sorts of other lines there that they're trying to hide by not highlighting them. It's all a conspiracy to cherry-pick data to make AMERICA! look bad.
  2. That's from the European CDC; that's a government agency and Trump said you can't trust the government.
  3. The European CDC is trying to make AMERICA! look bad for having to have their asses saved by us in Double-U Double-U Two.
  4. OF COURSE the European CDC is going to make Canada and Australia look bad compared to AMERICA!, it has to look out for all of it's European members.

In all seriousness, the chart tracks newly identified cases, not deaths. Trump is right in one respect: more testing does identify more cases. If it's identifying mainly young people who are asymptomatic or mildly so, because those are the types of people who weren't tested before but are now, then it's picking up a lot more cases while the death toll declines.

That said, there is some early indication that a few of these states might be seeing increased death counts. But we're going to need another week or two to know for sure.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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As to the OP, don't even worry about it. First wave, second wave, whatever. Just look at the numbers. AFAIK, the entire pandemic is just one wave that ebbs or flows.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,952
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June 19th Report:

You can really see how New York drove the United States numbers... two months ago.

Also... even if we completely repeated the shutdown, cases would still triple in a couple weeks. That's what they did after the March shutdown. The lag time between contraction and reported illness. I fully expect our daily numbers to be 150k infections/ day by the second week of July. If we are even capable of reporting / testing that many. We probably aren't.

But if you want to know the ground truth for COVID, just send reporters to the hospitals. Our medical system will suffer catastrophic failure shortly.

 
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esquared

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 8, 2000
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We're not in a second wave. We never got it below 20,000 cases per day since March and we've been climbing
since June 1st. Plus we just set a record today at over 40,000 cases
1593068810531.png

As COVID cases fall in Europe, calls to ban travel from America rise. What the EU got right about controlling coronavirus.


The orange menace fucked this up 6 ways from Sunday. We could have been South Korea or even Germany which did a much
better job that we have done. Look at New Zealand. Zero cases for a few weeks although I see that one new case there popped up today.

The orange menace is walking away from this by pretending its over. Last two pressers and the two rallies he has not spoken a word
about the COVID-19 crisis or a word about any of the victims

Kinda like this

1593069324309.png.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
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In all seriousness, the chart tracks newly identified cases, not deaths. Trump is right in one respect: more testing does identify more cases. If it's identifying mainly young people who are asymptomatic or mildly so, because those are the types of people who weren't tested before but are now, then it's picking up a lot more cases while the death toll declines.

That said, there is some early indication that a few of these states might be seeing increased death counts. But we're going to need another week or two to know for sure.
I would disagree with the "more testing, more cases" theory that people use. That is, unless most states are doing random testing that I don't know about.

My understanding is that most states are just testing on demand. If that's true then there are not more cases due to more tests. If stars aren't really random or population testing then they're likely mostly testing people have reason to believe they need to be tested or present with symptoms.
 
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Grey_Beard

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Sep 23, 2014
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I would disagree with the "more testing, more cases" theory that people use. That is, unless most states are doing random testing that I don't know about.

My understanding is that most states are just testing on demand. If that's true then there are not more cases due to more tests. If stars aren't really random or population testing then they're likely mostly testing people have reason to believe they need to be tested or present with symptoms.

The figure that we need to pay attention to is percentage of positivity in the testing. It identifies community spread. Higher means community spread, lower means it is under control. I think you want to be below 3%.

Just take Florida, in May the State was at 2.3% positive, although testing levels where lower than today. Today, with the higher test levels, still not at where they need to be, the positivity rate is ranging from about 10% to almost 20%. The same for a Texas and Arizona. Even if the increased number of cases identified through more testing are asymptomatic, the more who get it, the more it spreads, the more damage and the longer it is around.

If the hospitalization rate is 8%, then this will increase the number of hospitalizations just from the shear numbers. Fatality will react similarly. There is evidence now that immunity from antibodies is short and you can get it twice. This is typical with a novel outbreak.

People who believe it is “just another seasonal flu” can get evidence of it being not that “severe” and those who understand cannot contradict them because data is not available. Data is starting to emerge that tells us this is a serious thing that has some longer-term impacts.

If there is going to be waves, like when you are at the beach, there must be a peak followed by a trough followed by another peak. Europe, Asia, Africa are past the first wave. Evidenced by the graphs that show a peak followed by a trough with cases significantly lower than the peak.

The US, Mexico, Russia and Brazil are still dealing with the original outbreak. The heat does not impact it, as it is a very contagious virus, especially indoors at bars, restaurants, rallies, etc. Outside is a different story since it dies quickly in the UV and the wind disperses it better.

The trend line points to a situation in the fall where the seasonal flu and this will be very active. This is a very serious thing. Imagine getting this and the flu simultaneously. If 120,000 died in the US and we were shut down for two months, image the possibility when an annual event that kills 50,000 over six months is coupled with this.

Maybe this is what was meant when “American Carnage” was mention during the inauguration.


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Grey_Beard

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Sep 23, 2014
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Another Republican Governor fires their top health official because of rigged COVID numbers. Florida was the other one.

It could NEVER be the Governor’s incompetence, especially for Republican. I am sure this health official was either a plant by Bill Gates to make West Virginia look bad or they were a paid shill by Soros. It’s not like there are any Republican factions doing this exact thing. The Murdocks and Koch family actually own media. Who would think they would ever try to misinform the population.


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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
41,023
10,283
136
As to the OP, don't even worry about it. First wave, second wave, whatever. Just look at the numbers. AFAIK, the entire pandemic is just one wave that ebbs or flows.


"A second wave is almost inevitable, particularly as we go towards the winter months.
"The challenge for government is to ensure the peak isn't so much that it overburdens the healthcare system."
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
41,023
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Another Republican Governor fires their top health official because of rigged COVID numbers. Florida was the other one.
Governor is a coal billionaire with no previous political experience.

The governor has so far declined to strengthen West Virginia's virus restrictions in response to the increases. He has repeatedly balked on mandating face masks in public spaces, as other governments have done, saying such an order would be politically divisive.
:rolleyes:
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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"The challenge for government is to ensure the peak isn't so much that it overburdens the healthcare system."

This is not within their power to control or prevent at this point.

The United States lacks the robust safety net required to continue with a shutdown. The economic fallout is already incredible. To continue would simply be total economic and societal suicide. We lack the infrastructure to survive a crisis like this. The Republican playbook of ignoring COVID may be the path of least resistance.

Look at the millions about to be evicted from their homes over the previous shutdown. The United States is a hot mess that is on the verge of complete meltdown.