First Water Cooling Rig

[nfwolfpryde]

Hey all!

I'm building my first new PC in about 5 years, and I could use some guidance. I'm thinking I really want a quiet PC, so I'd like to take a look at water cooling. I'm really not sure how to size the radiator though, I don't want to under-build this! Really looking for some guidance on how to pick the water-cooling components. I'd generally just go for a closed-loop system, but I have decided I want to cool the GPUs as well. I also keep going back and forth on should I go for IVB-E or Haswell systems. Gaming will never push IVB-E, and Haswell is a LOT less expensive...

Would I be wrong in thinking I might be able to get away with a 240mm radiator setup?

Here's the parts-list I'm currently working with, which I'd also welcome feedback on:

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1TSXX

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($303.08 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: Asus MAXIMUS VI GENE Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($192.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: G.Skill Trident X Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($339.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($209.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 290X 4GB Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) ($585.91 @ Newegg)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 290X 4GB Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) ($585.91 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 350D Window MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair 1200W 80 PLUS Platinum Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($306.98 @ Newegg)
Other: Corsair Professional Series Individually Sleeved DC Modular Cable Kit Type 3 - RED ($79.99)
Other: Corsair Professional Series Individually Sleeved AX(i) 1200i/860i/760i ATX 24-Pin - RED ($19.99)
Other: Samsung 8x Slim DVD+/-RW Slim USB External Drive, Black SE-208DB/TSBS ($30.35)
Total: $2745.17
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-10-27 14:43 EDT-0400)

1. What YOUR PC will be used for. That means what types of tasks you'll be performing.

Gaming, Steambox, work (e-mail, building OS deployments), virtualization (both linux and windows servers running from remote storage), customer demos.​

2. What YOUR budget is. A price range is acceptable as long as it's not more than a 20% spread

~$3k USD​

3. What country YOU will be buying YOUR parts from.

US​

5. IF YOU have a brand preference. That means, are you an Intel-Fanboy, AMD-Fanboy, ATI-Fanboy, nVidia-Fanboy, Seagate-Fanboy, WD-Fanboy, etc.

Needs to be an Intel box so I can move VMs around a few servers.​

6. If YOU intend on using any of YOUR current parts, and if so, what those parts are.

None.​

7. IF YOU plan on overclocking or run the system at default speeds.

Default. I remember the trade-off from overclocking was a reduced system lifespan. Is that still generally true beyond the stock Intel turbo-bins?​

8. What resolution, not monitor size, will you be using?

2560x1440, 3x 1920x1200​

9. WHEN do you plan to build it?
Note that it is usually not cost or time effective to choose your build more than a month before you actually plan to be using it.

Nov/Dec.​

X. Do you need to purchase any software to go with the system, such as Windows or Blu Ray playback software?

Nope, MSDN.​

 

[OVerLoRDI]

Case: Corsair 350D Window MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Newegg)

And

Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 290X 4GB Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) ($585.91 @ Newegg)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 290X 4GB Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) ($585.91 @ Newegg)

First thing I notice here is a serious space issue. The 350D is not a very big case, and will not have enough mounting points for the radiators space needed to make this machine quiet. This is of course assuming you want to keep everything internal and don't want to bother having the radiators be external.

Also you would need a lot more radiator space for 2x 290x and a 4770k, especially if you plan on doing ANY overclocking. I'd recommend more along the lines of at least 4x120mm or more like 6x120mm if you want a shot at making the system quiet. A 240mm rad will not cut it with a setup like this.

 

[aigomorla]

Hi Welcome to AT.


Is that your finalized list of parts?
Also i see a lot of problems...

1. Your build is going to cost 2700 dollars... you have a total of 3000 dollars you wish to spend... that leaves a budget of 300 dollars.... this is a very big problem.
The GPU waterblocks alone will cost roughly 80-130 dollars.... u see where we have a problem?

2. No a 240 radiator is nowhere near sufficient to handle those 2 gpus's alone.
Assumption your haswell will put out somewhere near 120W overclocked, your gpu's will do double that EACH on stock settings.

The 2x120 radiator is only designed to handle 300W with performance fans... by using an insufficient rad, your asking to be limited before you even began.

3. your case is not a customized liquid cooling friendly case for the beginner... Its way too small.... If you like the style, id suggest you look at its much bigger brother the 900D.

however again... there are better cases then corsair cases if you wish to liquid cool.
Typically if your going to liquid cool, it is best advised to buy a liquid cooling case from the start.

 

[nfwolfpryde]

Hey all,

Definitely not a finalized parts list, so don't feel your suggestions have to lock into those brands/components. Also, I'm not planning on doing any overclocking beyond what the CPU will do with turbo automatically, same for the GPUs. Like my last PC, I really need this to last me several years. From the AMD Athlon days, I remember overclocking would reduce your PC's lifespan, and stability is more important than performance for me long-term.

@OVerLoRDI, Thanks for the notes! I believe I can fit 2x 240mm radiators in the 350D. One in the front, one on the top. Would that be sufficient?

@aigomorla, The budget is about $3k, it can go up another couple hundred though. I was also considering going down to a 1k watt PSU instead of the Corsair 1200W, perhaps the Seasonic 1kW platinum, to recover some cost? That's great to know a 2x120 radiator is only designed to dissipate 300W, that helps me a lot for sizing. I'd definitely be in to 3x of those radiators... Size was definitely a consideration, I'd like to keep this into a mATX enclosure if I can make that happen so the 900D isn't really what I'm shooting for. Style wise I'm more of a Lian-Li person myself, but I don't think I've seen a good review for their stuff in a long while. All of my current PCs are in Lian-Li cases, it's sad to see they haven't kept up. Lots of comments in reviews about poor fit and vibrations. Any other case suggestions would be great. I just tried to pick the one that had some positive mATX reviews with water-cooling. I'm going through your Newbies Guide now!

 

[lehtv]

I think water cooling is unnecessary if you're not actually going to OC at all. Air cooling should do fine if you pick your components right. Something like this would make for a quiet dual GPU setup:

- Fractal Design Define XL R2 case
- Five 140mm fans running at 500-800RPM, 3 exhausts, 2 intakes (the case comes with three, buy two more and two splitter cables)
- Arctic i30 processor cooler set to silent mode in the motherboard BIOS (with no OC, it will practically never ramp up to audible speeds inside that case)
- Graphics cooling option 1: wait for MSI Gaming editions of the card (actually I'd probably prefer the 290 instead of 290X, almost the same performance for less $, and your resolution doesn't really demand that much graphics power anyway)
- Graphics cooling option 2: wait for Arctic Cooling to release an Accelero Extreme revision compatible with the 290X; although the Extreme III cooler may already be compatible, not sure. These are triple slot coolers which will require a motherboard that allows Crossfire four slots apart: Asus Z87-WS $290
- Some quiet running 850W-1000W PSU

Of course, you CAN set up a water cooling system for the cards just for fun. But I don't really think it's necessary.

 

[aigomorla]

i dont recommend a matx as your first lc setup.

you dont have the eye for tubing and routing yet.
this is something that one learns after a couple of builds... and only then do you attempt a matx liquid build.

 

[BrightCandle]

So you intend to watercool both GPUs and the CPU and you aren't ever going to overclock. Yet you have chosen a 4770k, which is more expensive (but basically the same processor) as the 4770 which can't be overclocked. If you aren't overclocking don't choose an overclocking CPU!

So I am going to give you figures for a few scenarios and a radiator count you need since I don't believe you are not going to overclock. Also going to assume since you said quiet you want quiet fans (800rpm). Lets only concern ourselves with a thick radiator (4-6cm designed for low speed fans such as a Thermochill PA 120mm or something similar) which gives us about 130W of cooling at 10C water delta.

Stock clockspeed
4770k CPU - 84W
2x 290X - 270W each *2 = 540W
Grand total = 624W

Radiators necessary = 624/130 = 4.8 = 5 radiator slots

CPU Overclocked only
4770k@4.5Ghz -150W
2x 290X - 270W each *2 = 540W
Grand total = 690W

Radiators necessary = 690/130 = 5.3 = 6 radiator slots

CPU and GPU overclocked
4770k@4.5Ghz -150W
2x 290X - 450W each *2 = 900W
This assumes we keep it to roughly 1100-1200 Mhz or so. With voltage mods and such its possible to go more than this per card but I haven't seen full data on this yet.
Grand total = 1050W

Radiators necessary = 1050/130 = 8.07 = 8 radiator slots

So will 2 x 120mm raditor do the job you ask? No no it wont.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

I'd cut down on the CPU, MB, GPU. If you want to watercool the GPU + CPU you'll want to get 2 x 360 radiators + a good setup with lots of fresh air feeding the radiators. No point in getting a small case and trying to stuff everything in there. My first WC setup was in the HAF932 and was able to fit the 2x 360 radiators all internally and both able to get fresh air from the front and the top.

Why 2x 360? Because for the same performance as the Noctua DH14, you'll need it. Or else i'd just get the DH14. Are you sure you want to water cool?? Its a lot more work...

 

[nfwolfpryde]

Well, I'm sufficiently discouraged. Great sizing information from everybody, really put the project into perspective. Clearly air cooling is going to be the way to for for a little while.

Thanks a million!

 

[aigomorla]

Well, I'm sufficiently discouraged. Great sizing information from everybody, really put the project into perspective. Clearly air cooling is going to be the way to for for a little while.

Thanks a million!

yeah sorry to break your wishes bud...

water isnt a magical substance that can absorb unlimited heat.
It has to follow the rules of thermo, and the rules of thermo states nothing is for free... and nothing can be destroyed...

lol...

Is it possible to liquidcool a MATX case?
Yes it is.. ive done many... however they are extremely difficult, and cost more typically due to the requirement of extra fittings / parts to get done correctly... This type of cooling setup will most definitely cost you in the upwards of 600 dollars just for the liquid cooling gear... then an additional 36 hours at least trying to get everything to fit with moding...
Thats if you had experience in how to setup a liquid cooling setup.... u multiply time factor by 5 if your new... so 180 hours im guessing will be required for you to setup that machine properly....

It isnt worth it... lol....

On a case designed for a customized LC gear... that time factor becomes 45 minutes... again multiply by 5 if your new.. so a little under 4 hours to a new person in LC on a case designed for customized liquid cooling.

Any Vendor who says designed for liquid cooling, and the case being less then a full sized ATX, is referring to an AIO Watercooling kit, which isnt anywhere near the word custom.

 

[nfwolfpryde]

The time wasn't an issue, and I've done close-quarters plumbing projects before, so I know how to treat gaskets, chamfer edges, etc, but I didn't know how to properly size the loop so it's clearly a lot bigger project than I had anticipated. As I said, I'm thinking now I'll probably stick with air cooling, but I'll swap out my case for something that looks more friendly for a 2x 360mm radiator setup so I can do a water-cooled config down the road.

Thanks!

 

[guskline]

I'm going to chime in here after doing my first custom water cooling build and redo of cpu cards.

First listen CAREFULLY to both aigomorla and BrightCandle concerning case size AND rads needed. They have both walked the walk and know what they are talking about. I started with a CM HAF 932 Adv and wished I spent the $$ to buy at least a Corsair 900D if not a specialty case from Caselabs etc. I settled on using my present CM 932Adv but added a second 360 rad externally mounted to the rear.

Running 2 video cards in either CF or SLI takes room and they put out heat. I run 2 EVGA GTX670 FTWs in SLI and they need room to "breathe". My case is big enough but remember you are running tubing so extra room never hurts.

Never underestimate radiator capacity. BrightCandles formula is spot on.

I OC my 3930k to 4.4Ghz (a safe OC) and when you crank up Prime95 torture test and run it for a few hours your TDP will be near 200W. You'll be lower for a 4770k but give yourself some wiggle room.

From all that I read, so far, the R9 290X cards have the ability to use some serious power AND will throw out some serious heat. BrightCandle's calcs, again, seem spot on.

Based on all that I've experienced, based on your desire to run a 4770k and 2 R9 290X cards and possibly water cool I would buy the Corsair 900D in a heatbeat. It's mammoth (saw one in person at the MicroCenter in Philly) BUT it will allow you to add a 480 radiator and 240 radiator below and a 360 radiator at the top (perhaps more if need be)

Trust me, you'll need that much rad space for the cross fired 290X cards.

 

[Aikouka]

Just stick with air, and if you do want the R290X, I would go with the Accelero option mentioned earlier. However, you'll need a bigger case. Also, apart from their Carbide Air 540, Corsair cases are not known for good performance with air cooling. Although, the 540 is certainly a decent option.

it will allow you to add a 480 radiator and 240 radiator below and a 360 radiator at the top (perhaps more if need be)

It can fit a 480 on the top. Also, from someone that owns one, I still don't recommend using two radiators on the bottom unless you're using a bay reservoir. The case has a serious lack of unused horizontal surfaces for mounting pumps. The only decent spot is the bottom 3.5" drive mount, but that restricts you to 3 3.5" drives as you've already killed the three bottom mount points by using a radiator (there are five mount points in total).

I use a 3x120 and a 4x120 for my SLI system and it works fine.

 

[rgallant]

The time wasn't an issue, and I've done close-quarters plumbing projects before, so I know how to treat gaskets, chamfer edges, etc, but I didn't know how to properly size the loop so it's clearly a lot bigger project than I had anticipated. As I said, I'm thinking now I'll probably stick with air cooling, but I'll swap out my case for something that looks more friendly for a 2x 360mm radiator setup so I can do a water-cooled config down the road.

Thanks!

look a round your room to see if the heat dump using external rads could move the heat to where you will not feel it.

-use a 800 watt heater to test , leave it on for your normal gaming time see if it heats up your room. air or water really.

a rad rack could be used but needs wiring for fans .+ QDC

just saying
the heat dump in my office with my system killed me[room temps would climb from 21c to 28c]. with windows open and house a\c ,summer or winter.
-now I have my 3 rads just under the floor in a 5'6 craw space ,no fan noise, no heat dump in the room, sub 21c water in a 24c room.