First Time Homebuyer. Agentless

[Turin39789]

Le sigh.


We are in the market for a house and hope to buy sometime this year for that free government money you all are giving us.

The penny pincher in me wants to do a ton of research and try to go it alone on a FSBO we found.


She's worried and thinks we need an agent, being noobs after all.

We've spent a few months staring at the MLS and the FSBO's on craigslist. If we ever get real interested in a property that is listed by an agent, I see no harm in getting our own agent and going to town. Theoretically we might negotiated for our buyers agent fee paid to us, but thats a pipedream.

To be honest I wouldn't mind someone to walk us through the process. But I just found a dream house FSBO with no agent. It's currently beyond our upper limit, but it's also 45k above the tax value and 30k above the zillow estimate. I'm trying to make a case for going for it but I think we'll have a better chance price negotiating without the agent fees.
We'll have to get the appraisal and inspection and lawyer on our own.


Or am I just daft?

 

[mugs]

I thought the seller always paid the buyer's agent? Regardless, I'd get an agent.

 

[OCGuy]

Seriously, get an agent.

The seller pays the fees, and you get to have someone with knowledge of real estate transactions so you can protect yourself. Many things can go wrong both during and after a real-estate transaction, and you want your ass covered.

 

[Turin39789]

The fees come out of the purchase price. If the seller doesn't have to cough up 3-6% they will negotiate lower.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

i went thru the same situation (wanted no agent, so wanted agent)

got an agent, very happy with the decision

we found our own house via internet listings, just used the agent for the paperwork and getting us into places. the agency we used represents buyers only gives cash back out of their cut. remember, seller pays commission to their agent 6%, then the selling agent usually splits with the buyers agent (3% each). nothing is coming out of your pocket. i guess the mindset is that without paying 6% to agents the seller can sell 6% cheaper, but im not sure often that happens... people trying to FSBO generally want as much $ they can get, so why list 6% lower than the comps??

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Turin39789
The fees come out of the purchase price. If the seller doesn't have to cough up 3-6% they will negotiate lower.

That's what you'd like to happen but it doesn't always. Based on your inexperience, you're still better with an agent as what you think you'll save by not having an agent will most likely cost you anyways.

 

[MrWizzard]

Originally posted by: Turin39789
Le sigh.


We are in the market for a house and hope to buy sometime this year for that free government money you all are giving us.

The penny pincher in me wants to do a ton of research and try to go it alone on a FSBO we found.


She's worried and thinks we need an agent, big boobs after all.

We've spent a few months staring at the MLS and the FSBO's on craigslist. If we ever get real interested in a property that is listed by an agent, I see no harm in getting our own agent and going to town. Theoretically we might negotiated for our buyers agent fee paid to us, but thats a pipedream.

To be honest I wouldn't mind someone to walk us through the process. But I just found a dream house FSBO with no agent. It's currently beyond our upper limit, but it's also 45k above the tax value and 30k above the zillow estimate. I'm trying to make a case for going for it but I think we'll have a better chance price negotiating without the agent fees.
We'll have to get the appraisal and inspection and lawyer on our own.


Or am I just daft?

I kid you not that?s what I saw when I first looked at your post, I was like what does that have to do with anything......my mind must be in the gutter.

Anyways both ways have their advantages, that being said my dad bought his first and second current house they are in without a agent and has helped me and my sisters buy houses without a agent, if you can pull it off it is worth it.

Having a agent can make for a lot less work and stress though. It's up to you.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: Turin39789
The fees come out of the purchase price. If the seller doesn't have to cough up 3-6% they will negotiate lower.

That's what you'd like to happen but it doesn't always. Based on your inexperience, you're still better with an agent as what you think you'll save by not having an agent will most likely cost you anyways.

But I read the internets lots. It makes me know things

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: Turin39789
Le sigh.


We are in the market for a house and hope to buy sometime this year for that free government money you all are giving us.

The penny pincher in me wants to do a ton of research and try to go it alone on a FSBO we found.


She's worried and thinks we need an agent, big boobs after all.

We've spent a few months staring at the MLS and the FSBO's on craigslist. If we ever get real interested in a property that is listed by an agent, I see no harm in getting our own agent and going to town. Theoretically we might negotiated for our buyers agent fee paid to us, but thats a pipedream.

To be honest I wouldn't mind someone to walk us through the process. But I just found a dream house FSBO with no agent. It's currently beyond our upper limit, but it's also 45k above the tax value and 30k above the zillow estimate. I'm trying to make a case for going for it but I think we'll have a better chance price negotiating without the agent fees.
We'll have to get the appraisal and inspection and lawyer on our own.


Or am I just daft?

I kid you not that?s what I read when I first looked at your post, I was like what does that have to do with anything......my mind must be in the gutter.

Anyways both ways have their advantages, that being said my dad bought his first and second current house they are in without a agent and has helped me and my sisters buy houses without a agent, if you can pull it off it is worth it.

Having a agent can make for a lot less work and stress though. It's up to you.

I know one guy who apparently does some agenting. No idea if he is any good.

The one agent who we have heard of, does in fact have big boobs. She's probably who we will go with if we get an agent.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Turin39789
The fees come out of the purchase price. If the seller doesn't have to cough up 3-6% they will negotiate lower.

This,
people that argue that seller pays fees don't understand economics.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Turin39789
The fees come out of the purchase price. If the seller doesn't have to cough up 3-6% they will negotiate lower.

This,
people that argue that seller pays fees don't understand economics.

People who dont have someone knowledgable handle the transaction could be screwing themselves out much more than a couple thousand on the purchase price.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Turin39789
The fees come out of the purchase price. If the seller doesn't have to cough up 3-6% they will negotiate lower.

This,
people that argue that seller pays fees don't understand economics.

People who dont have someone knowledgable handle the transaction could be screwing themselves out much more than a couple thousand on the purchase price.

These statements are independent and both are true?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Turin39789
The fees come out of the purchase price. If the seller doesn't have to cough up 3-6% they will negotiate lower.

This,
people that argue that seller pays fees don't understand economics.

People who dont have someone knowledgable handle the transaction could be screwing themselves out much more than a couple thousand on the purchase price.

How exactly do you figure that? RE agents aren't lawyers, nor appraisal inspectors or mortgage originators, their value added is minimal at best. All the pieces you need for RE acquisition come from people other than the realitor.

 

[amdskip]

I did it without any sort of agent, fsbo and I purchased it, no problems at all.

 

[DanTMWTMP]

ohh man, getting an agent was the BEST decision I made when I was looking. I was in a very similar situation, and tried with no agent. Eventually, I got frustrated with talking to every single listing agent and their BS.


I didn't have to pay the agent anything afterwards. Seller paid the closing costs, and listing+buyer's agent split the costs. Cash was also given to me as a cut from the my agent's commission. I'd have no idea how I would've went through that paperwork and headache without an agent.

My agent was honest with me. She'd tell me up-front what is wrong with any place (heh, she does some contracting work, and owns several properties, so she knew the city very well). She'd tell me a complete breakdown on any HOA's fee's. Her information and her providing representation by talking to other listing agents while I just relaxed at home saved me countless hours and hassle. She'd even tell me bluntly, "nah, you can't afford this place.." It was great.

Homes will sell with 6% concessions in mind. It's up to the buyer and seller to decide who will ultimately pay it, but from what I've seen, usually the deals end up with the seller taking care of it.


Anyways, anyone have more info on the first-time-home-buyer program? Do you just get $8000 right then and there? Do I wait until 2009 tax period? I thought it was just a deduction where let's say you make 50k/yr, and $8000 gets deducted from taxable income, right?

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: DanTMWTMP
ohh man, getting an agent was the BEST decision I made when I was looking. I was in a very similar situation, and tried with no agent. Eventually, I got frustrated with talking to every single listing agent and their BS.


I didn't have to pay the agent anything afterwards. Seller paid the closing costs, and listing+buyer's agent split the costs. Cash was also given to me as a cut from the my agent's commission. I'd have no idea how I would've went through that paperwork and headache without an agent.

My agent was honest with me. She'd tell me up-front what is wrong with any place (heh, she does some contracting work, and owns several properties, so she knew the city very well). She'd tell me a complete breakdown on any HOA's fee's. Her information and her providing representation by talking to other listing agents while I just relaxed at home saved me countless hours and hassle. She'd even tell me bluntly, "nah, you can't afford this place.." It was great.

Homes will sell with 6% concessions in mind. It's up to the buyer and seller to decide who will ultimately pay it, but from what I've seen, usually the deals end up with the seller taking care of it.


Anyways, anyone have more info on the first-time-home-buyer program? Do you just get $8000 right then and there? Do I wait until 2009 tax period? I thought it was just a deduction where let's say you make 50k/yr, and $8000 gets deducted from taxable income, right?

Yea, I'm only considering going agentless on FSBO homes, if we look for awhile and none work out or we find an agented home I 'll let someone else do the legwork.

Last year it was just a deduction, this years AFAIK it's an $8k credit. So next year it will add $8k to whatever your normal refund would have been(or reduce payment by $8k). I've also heard it is possible to file an amended return and tack the purchase onto your 08 taxes and get it back before next year.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: halik

How exactly do you figure that? RE agents aren't lawyers, nor appraisal inspectors or mortgage originators, their value added is minimal at best. All the pieces you need for RE acquisition come from people other than the realitor.

If you have to ask......


It really isnt anything debatable. As dumb as some agents are, there are many good ones. They will make sure you and your deposit are protected by including certain verbage and clauses in the contract to allow for outs for you. (Home inspection, property does not appraise for purchase price, you lose your job, or for some other reason can no longer obtain financing)

There is a ton of Real Estate Law issues that agents here in CA have to study before they can become licenses. They are far from being anything near a laywer, but even thier limited knowledge is better than Joe Blow reading a few things on the internet and signing a purchase contract.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: halik

How exactly do you figure that? RE agents aren't lawyers, nor appraisal inspectors or mortgage originators, their value added is minimal at best. All the pieces you need for RE acquisition come from people other than the realitor.

If you have to ask......


It really isnt anything debatable. As dumb as some agents are, there are many good ones. They will make sure you and your deposit are protected by including certain verbage and clauses in the contract to allow for outs for you. (Home inspection, property does not appraise for purchase price, you lose your job, or for some other reason can no longer obtain financing)

There is a ton of Real Estate Law issues that agents here in CA have to study before they can become licenses. They are far from being anything near a laywer, but even thier limited knowledge is better than Joe Blow reading a few things on the internet and signing a purchase contract.

Won't the lawyer I hire to write up my contract be able to handle that?



I was waiting for Jules to come in the thread on the realtors side, as IIRC his wife is an agent. Full disclosure, do you have a stake in the game?

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: halik

How exactly do you figure that? RE agents aren't lawyers, nor appraisal inspectors or mortgage originators, their value added is minimal at best. All the pieces you need for RE acquisition come from people other than the realitor.

If you have to ask......


It really isnt anything debatable. As dumb as some agents are, there are many good ones. They will make sure you and your deposit are protected by including certain verbage and clauses in the contract to allow for outs for you. (Home inspection, property does not appraise for purchase price, you lose your job, or for some other reason can no longer obtain financing)

There is a ton of Real Estate Law issues that agents here in CA have to study before they can become licenses. They are far from being anything near a laywer, but even thier limited knowledge is better than Joe Blow reading a few things on the internet and signing a purchase contract.

Won't the lawyer I hire to write up my contract be able to handle that?



I was waiting for Jules to come in the thread on the realtors side, as IIRC his wife is an agent. Full disclosure, do you have a stake in the game?

If you are going to pay a lawyer to write your contract, then you are sitting much better. :thumbsup:


I am in the industry, but someone using an agent or not does not benefit me personally. I am on the financing end.

 

[waffleironhead]

Be careful when looking for an agent. If you go the FSBO route, you will be responsible for paying your agent out of pocket(depending on contract).
If you would rather go the FSBO route, a good real estate lawyer can look over all of the documents pertaining to the closing. When I looked into it a few years ago i was quoted about 250-300 for a basic overlook of documents.

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: OCguy
If you are going to pay a lawyer to write your contract, then you are sitting much better. :thumbsup:


I am in the industry, but someone using an agent or not does not benefit me personally. I am on the financing end.

Gotcha!

Yea there is no chance it is going down with an appraisal, inspection and lawyer involved.

Most of the houses we find are on the MLS, but every once in a while one pops up on craigslist or elsewhere as FSBO. Even if we talk this one down to what zillow claims the comps go for we will be pushing our limit. So it probably won't happen but it got the conversation started at home about the agent.


Now gimme some financing. I really wish we had gotten our 20% down, instead we will be sitting around 10+%.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: MrWizzard

Originally posted by: Turin39789
Le sigh.


We are in the market for a house and hope to buy sometime this year for that free government money you all are giving us.

The penny pincher in me wants to do a ton of research and try to go it alone on a FSBO we found.


She's worried and thinks we need an agent, big boobs after all.

We've spent a few months staring at the MLS and the FSBO's on craigslist. If we ever get real interested in a property that is listed by an agent, I see no harm in getting our own agent and going to town. Theoretically we might negotiated for our buyers agent fee paid to us, but thats a pipedream.

To be honest I wouldn't mind someone to walk us through the process. But I just found a dream house FSBO with no agent. It's currently beyond our upper limit, but it's also 45k above the tax value and 30k above the zillow estimate. I'm trying to make a case for going for it but I think we'll have a better chance price negotiating without the agent fees.
We'll have to get the appraisal and inspection and lawyer on our own.


Or am I just daft?

I kid you not that?s what I read when I first looked at your post, I was like what does that have to do with anything......my mind must be in the gutter.

Anyways both ways have their advantages, that being said my dad bought his first and second current house they are in without a agent and has helped me and my sisters buy houses without a agent, if you can pull it off it is worth it.

Having a agent can make for a lot less work and stress though. It's up to you.

I know one guy who apparently does some agenting. No idea if he is any good.

The one agent who we have heard of, does in fact have big boobs. She's probably who we will go with if we get an agent.

we ended up with a russian chick agent with big boobs. she wore awesome outfits that accentuated the fact that she also wore thongs, and was very attractive. too bad after 2 months we realized she was an idiot and couldnt help us. id recommend getting an agent as well, i bought my house without an agent and im betting we could have gotten a better deal if we had one.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Turin39789


Gotcha!

Yea there is no chance it is going down with an appraisal, inspection and lawyer involved.

Most of the houses we find are on the MLS, but every once in a while one pops up on craigslist or elsewhere as FSBO. Even if we talk this one down to what zillow claims the comps go for we will be pushing our limit. So it probably won't happen but it got the conversation started at home about the agent.


Now gimme some financing. I really wish we had gotten our 20% down, instead we will be sitting around 10+%.

Zillow is generally garbage, tbh. It can be used as a tool, but I rarely see it within 5% of the actual appraised values.

10% down is still good, but you will have to have ~ 720 low-mid fico between you and the lady to obtain MI in most cases. The MI companies have really tightened in the last 3 moths. If you get an FHA loan, you only need a 620 for the MI.

Either way, good luck and keep us updated.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

FSBO people don't always know what their home is really worth. Low ball them and if they don't like it, walk.

Go get yourselves a damned agent though. And make them put a waiver in your agreement that says the contract is non binding if you find a home on your own (FSBO).

 

[RagingBITCH]

Some, if not the majority of sellers agents won't work directly with individuals. The sellers agent can easily take advantage of your n00bness. There's good agents and bad agents. Ask around, ask family friends, ask family, ask coworkers, etc.

Reading things on the internet doesn't make you nor I an expert at it. If you are truly worried about the extra few thousand you THEORETICALLY MIGHT BE saving by not having an agent since it comes out of the final price, then you have bigger things to worry about. From the agents I know, they all refuse to work with individuals. Sure they might save the seller a few thousand here but they have to deal with the individual not knowing a damn thing about comps, about a reasonable offer, about this and that, and in the end it becomes more of a hassle to them. Let them do all the legwork, give you their advice from buying/selling tons of houses, their ability to find comps a lot easier than you, blah blah blah blah blah. Why not just do everything yourself? Who needs professional services when you have the internet to make you an instant expert at any subject? Shocker!