AMD Ryzen (Summit Ridge) Benchmarks Thread (use new thread)

Page 63 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,642
4,382
136
Have you checked the rest of the thread, and posts of this person? He claims that 8 core/16 thread CPU with 5960X performance can cost roughly 300$.

If this turn out to be true...
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Have you checked the rest of the thread, and posts of this person? He claims that 8 core/16 thread CPU with 5960X performance can cost roughly 300$.

If this turn out to be true...
I read the part about Zen being very slow at the moment due to some sort of workaround for errors.

By that account, Zen is crippled at this time, and stuck with slow ram.

It sounds like a disaster to me.

Or it would, if I believed that account.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,642
4,382
136
I read the part about Zen being very slow at the moment due to some sort of workaround for errors.

By that account, Zen is crippled at this time, and stuck with slow ram.

It sounds like a disaster to me.

Or it would, if I believed that account.
http://carbonite.co.za/f20/amd-zen-141214/index3.html#post974028
* All overclocking is done via Overdrive, you can't change any performance features at all in the BIOS (on to that next) at all.

* BIOS or UEFI is actually built into the CPU, so only AMD can update the "BIOS" or microcode. All overclocking must take place within the Operating system

* Right now it takes up to 30 minutes to clear the BIOS. If you remove the CPU and place it on another motherboard, it'll have the same settings applied as on the previous board. So debugging is a nightmare

* 6850K SKU (May not be final designation) is wait for it.... $300 roughly. That's 8 Cores and 16 Threads

* AMD's Hyper Threading is called SMU and it is damn good. The same efficiency as Intel's HT.

* Performance is really good, be it SuperPi, Cinebench, 3DMark etc, it's FPU performance is incredibly good and easily matching that of what Intel offers.

* Current performance is staggering even though it is limited to 2133MHz (as mentioned before) and NorthBridge Frequency is limited to 2400MHz

* There will be a nigher SKU than the 6850K, but it is a higher bin so it will certainly overclock better than 6850K and that may carry a premium price, but unlikely to be double.

* There's plenty of excitement from all board vendors about the platform, so we will see how it all pans out. (Especially with the hot mess that INTEL has in store for us H2 2017, that we can leave to another thread)

* For Gaming, the CPU is neck and neck with INTEL, even at low res where CPU bound.
http://carbonite.co.za/f20/amd-zen-141214/index2.html#post973197
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. IPC right now is unlikely to go up
However be advised that while it can match Haswell-E for sure, it doesn't match Broadwell-E. If you are not aware, a 6900K @ 4GHz is about the same as a 5960X @ 4.5GHz. The difference in IPC is more than one would think oddly enough.


As for TDP, INTEL measures TDP entirely differently from AMD. AMD never measures max power draw or instantaneous power draw while INTEL does. It's is a lot more complicated than this but suffice to say they aren't directly comparable and of course this stands to reason because operating voltage for the the CPUs right now is 1.3V vs. Intel's 1.2v or so for a higher clock speed and a denser CPU.

Catching up to the leader is a simpler task than charting new ground and pushing the frontier. AMD has the road map laid out for it and the advantage of not having had to pioneer an architecture to match an untested node or process. That work has already been done by others and and if you look at tri-gate fabrication processes, they are so much better than they were when we first got them at 22nm.
Single thread performance still matters if only for the low power states and what options it allows you for power gating the CPU. Not necessarily the power it gives you at full tilt.

The cadence that INTEL uses for platform development even right now, puts them quite ahead even though they've not been necessarily focused on improving performance per say, but rather performance per watt, much like NVIDIA. The Kaby Lake is the Oregon dev team I think, while Skylake-X and Cannonlake should be the Israeli team. (could have the swapped) Point is Skylake-X platforms for instance, only due Q4 2017 are already available at all the vendors with CPUs at a later development stage than Zen is at present.

Either way, 2017 is going to be exciting for AMD and us of course. New GPUs and new platforms that bring AMD right up to modern computing performance. Pricing is not going to be cheap because if you have a comparable part, you price it accordingly. So yeah for high end look to $700 or so

And there are few others.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
AMD essentially has no Chipset for the CPUs. It's an SOC of sorts so everything is just about contained within the CPU or at least the CPU package. That does simplify the board in some ways, but the worst part is that it takes away the small differences boards had between them. Right now there's literally no difference at all between any board (all of which are far too early to be relevant). Essentially all control is in AMD's hands and in the user hands for overdrive.

You can still access traditional BIOS for SATA config, Audio, boot sequence etc but that's it really. Even DRAM frequency you'll have to set inside the OS and reboot as I don't think you can change multi once the mem training is done. We will have to see.

If the description of Zen as a SOC of sorts, and having limited BIOS options and limited board options, is accurate, then it sounds like I would not be interested in Zen.
 

raghu78

Diamond Member
Aug 23, 2012
4,093
1,475
136
We saw Polaris being hyped by random posters and the end result was disappointing. Right now people posting about Zen are imo all people with no real information.
 

Veradun

Senior member
Jul 29, 2016
564
780
136
If the description of Zen as a SOC of sorts, and having limited BIOS options and limited board options, is accurate, then it sounds like I would not be interested in Zen.
AFAIK the platform includes a "demux" chipset set to add features using extra PCIe lanes besides the ones sufficient to label Zen a SoC. I wouldn't worry about MoBo options.

About BIOS options it depends on what it is exposed in the GUI atm vs what will be in the final product.

(hello, first post on this forum)

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
AFAIK the platform includes a "demux" chipset set to add features using extra PCIe lanes besides the ones sufficient to label Zen a SoC. I wouldn't worry about MoBo options.

About BIOS options it depends on what it is exposed in the GUI atm vs what will be in the final product.

(hello, first post on this forum)

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
Since I doubt the story, I'm not worrying about it at all.

I do hope it's inaccurate, though. Both with the problems and with the description.

Welcome to the jungle.
 

Dresdenboy

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2003
1,730
554
136
citavia.blog.de
We saw Polaris being hyped by random posters and the end result was disappointing. Right now people posting about Zen are imo all people with no real information.
A thought: The other way round this means, that without random poster hyping, more people would simply be satisfied with it?

Anyway, the market said via accepted pricing, that it was satisfied with the product. So maybe all the hype trains and chooo chooos happen in our little tech bbs + reddit world, but not among the average buyers?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Glo.

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
10,842
3,295
136
A thought: The other way round this means, that without random poster hyping, more people would simply be satisfied with it?

Anyway, the market said via accepted pricing, that it was satisfied with the product. So maybe all the hype trains and chooo chooos happen in our little tech bbs + reddit world, but not among the average buyers?

This was posted recently :

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/first-summit-ridge-zen-benchmarks.2482739/page-58#post-38544517

AMD's Zen-based processors are expected to feature a price/performance ratio better than expected

So the info is hardly new, that s eventually a confirmation that Digitimes s article is accurate, dunno what they mean by "better than expected" but i would imagine that they thought that AMD would undercut Intel by some 30-40% and that it will be actually significantly more.

If that s the case that s a smart strategy as they know that Intel cant initiate a price war given the current fundamentals, they would had no other solution than losing a big chunk of their DT marketshare.
 

Veradun

Senior member
Jul 29, 2016
564
780
136
dunno what they mean by "better than expected"

I don't even know what **I** am expecting, but if have to make an educated guess I'd say "around the same $/perf ratio than current Intel lineup, give or take some percent based on absolute performance".

If prices will be better than this (thus better than expected) say 20% better $/perf, I would be extremely excited :>

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
10,842
3,295
136
What was expected?

Given that there was an expectation it s not difficult to guess that they expected Zen to have a better perf/price than Intel s line up, now it happen that it will be better than what they thought, read my post above, it answer your question..

I don't even know what **I** am expecting, but if have to make an educated guess I'd say "around the same $/perf ratio than current Intel lineup, give or take some percent based on absolute performance".

If prices will be better than this (thus better than expected) say 20% better $/perf, I would be extremely excited :>

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

Dont think that we ll see the kind of prices that Intel is asking, they can do so becaus AMD was stuck during years in bigger nodes, but if we look at the product itself it s a chip that should be about 180mm2 and wich will be sold in a competitive environment, IIRC a Phenom X6 FI was 358mm2 and didnt cost huge amounts.

Does that 1.3 to 1.5 volt operating range jump off the page to anyone else?

That s quite high values, it remain to be seen if these are accurate, all i can say is that there s a tendency to increase the voltages while reducing the capacitances accordingly, basically that s what both AMD and Intel did with their last iterations, worst transistors transconductance wise but requiring less drive energy, wich as a whole yield better perf/Watt and eventually higher frequencies...
 
Last edited:

The Stilt

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2015
1,709
3,057
106
Does that 1.3 to 1.5 volt operating range jump off the page to anyone else?

As does most of the other things too in that post.

"AMD's Hyper Threading is called SMU and it is damn good. The same efficiency as Intel's HT."
"BIOS or UEFI is actually built into the CPU, so only AMD can update the "BIOS" or microcode. All overclocking must take place within the Operating system"
"Right now it takes up to 30 minutes to clear the BIOS. If you remove the CPU and place it on another motherboard, it'll have the same settings applied as on the previous board."

Among the other, "slight inconsistencies" :D
 

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
1,056
353
96
Ugh that post on carbonite forum sounds like a huge pile of BS...
Oh, come on, i even sense who is the author of that. It most likely has the kernel of reliable truth to it that may be hard to recognize after the release. Especially if it is claimed to be that late.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,108
2,100
136
Not sure how serious this guy is because he wrote some rubbish, his TDP comparison for example. But if true, Zen won't be available before March.
 

nismotigerwvu

Golden Member
May 13, 2004
1,568
33
91
Oh, come on, i even sense who is the author of that. It most likely has the kernel of reliable truth to it that may be hard to recognize after the release. Especially if it is claimed to be that late.
That's actually a good point. Could be peppering in some obviously false information for plausible deniability.
 

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
1,056
353
96
That's actually a good point. Could be peppering in some obviously false information for plausible deniability.
No, i don't mean intentional misinformation. Simply that things should change fairly significant by the time it is actually released. Especially on voltage/frequency variability front, *cough*.

Not sure how serious this guy is because he wrote some rubbish, his TDP comparison for example. But if true, Zen won't be available before March.
Quite the opposite, his TDP comparison is precisely what i expect to happen: AMD are not going to use Prime95 power consumption as TDP guidance.
 

Glo.

Diamond Member
Apr 25, 2015
5,642
4,382
136
Let me bring something that has been posted in this very forum:
https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...ecture-details.2465645/page-132#post-38535254
AMD Polaris said:
Hi all! I went into the forest recently and birds have tweeted something again. They spoke about 2 new SKUs that have just hit the post-boxes of the mainboard manufacturers. They are both A0 revisions and Engineering Samples, so there is no improvement since my last post.

The first one is an 8-core design with AMD's HT implementation and it's got a 3150 MHz base clock, it's all-core turbo is 3300 MHz and the max turbo for 1 core is 3600 Mhz. Yes, here are some improvements regarding the previous 8-core SKU under the same TDP envelope.

The second SKU is a 4-core one with AMD's HT. It's got a 65W TDP and the base clock is still 2900 MHz. All-core turbo is 3100 MHz, max turbo is 3400 MHz. I don't know if it's only an SKU for testing mainboards or something is not okay with the clock-wattage correlation. I mean on higher clocks the 4-core SKU steps into the 95W TDP envelope, AMD can't keep the wattage low. Maybe GloFo's 14nm process needs some maturing... Frankly I don't have a clue what's in the background.

Retail AM4 mainboards are under production. The whole platform will be ready to have a paper-launch at the end of the year with a real availability in February of 2017. Performance wise the Zen uarch will be around Haswell and Broadwell (except for FMA), it seems it won't catch Skylake clock for clock. It's not a big deal, but if the clocks can't go higher until the start it won't fulfill the expectations. And we all know that expectations in this case are very high...
IPC on Haswell level, again.

And remember, Intel will release Cannonlake CPUs with 4/6/8 core SKUs as mainstream offerings. It may be because Intel is forced by AMD to do this, if Mainstream SKU from AMD will offer amazing value. 300$, tho? Hardly believable, unfortunately. If AMD is able to offer something like this in mainstream market, they will price it on the premium level. That 3.15 GHz/3.6 GHz, 8 Core CPU would be around 10% slower than comparable Broadwell-E(6900K) CPU in single threaded performance, if everything what leaks is correct. But if it priced at 400$ price point it is just mind blowing offering.

Also if the 4 core CPUs are competitor to Core i3 CPUs, AMD has a killer lineup.
What I would be interested however are the APUs combining Zen 4 core SKUs, with Vega and HBM2.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
4,108
2,100
136
Quite the opposite, his TDP comparison is precisely what i expect to happen: AMD are not going to use Prime95 power consumption as TDP guidance.


Your expectation is irrelevant on this matter. His comparison is nonsense, everyone with some knowledge knows it. There are enough examples where Bulldozer goes over its TDP whereas Intel stays below.
 

lolfail9001

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2016
1,056
353
96
There are enough examples where Bulldozer goes over its TDP whereas Intel stays below.
As for TDP, INTEL measures TDP entirely differently from AMD. AMD never measures max power draw or instantaneous power draw while INTEL does. It's is a lot more complicated than this but suffice to say they aren't directly comparable and of course this stands to reason because operating voltage for the the CPUs right now is 1.3V vs. Intel's 1.2v or so for a higher clock speed and a denser CPU.
Unless you are reading something different, you 2 are stating the same thing.
What I would be interested however are the APUs combining Zen 4 core SKUs, with Vega and HBM2.
To make sure you have an APU that is still slower than a CPU+dGPU but costing more than said combo :)?
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
10,842
3,295
136
There are enough examples where Bulldozer goes over its TDP whereas Intel stays below.

That s the other way around, check at Hardware.fr, the HW samples they received from Intel were within the official TDP, the retails versions they used a few months later showed that under Prime 95 Intel CPUs were exceding their TDP on a continous basis, while they measured nothing of the sort with any AMD CPU, so much for the ever going urban legends invariably spread by the same suspects..
 
Status
Not open for further replies.