First retail 6870 photo; now includes full Chinese leaks and Guru3D review discussion

Discussion in 'Video Cards and Graphics' started by blastingcap, Oct 8, 2010.

  1. Tsavo

    Tsavo Platinum Member

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    Yeah. The GTX 460/1GB is pretty stellar product that's a good value at $220. I just don't see AMD getting into a pricing duel with Nvidia when they've got a better card in the 6850 than the GTX 460/1GB (stock clocked) so I imagine it would be hard for AMD to leave $50 on the table and sell it for $250 where they would have zero competition for the average buyer's cash. In this respect, 5850 = 6850 in price, but 6850 leads its elder slightly in performance.

    The 6870 might be interesting, too. If it offers = GTX 470 performance (stock clocks) at $300 then it will utterly wipe the floor with the 470 in sales, sound and much less heat generation.

    We'll all finally know the score at the end of the week. And If I can order an ATI 6870 one week from now, I'll be happy. If not, I'll order an Asus GTX 460 Top CU and still be happy.
     
  2. Lonbjerg

    Lonbjerg Diamond Member

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    Not really.
    My next card will be a NVIDIA card.
    Why?
    No a game on the horizion using GPU Bullet Physics.

    Maybee in a year or two....but untill then I support those doing the most for the next big field in gaming: Hardware physics.

    Besides, NVIDIA has better OpenCL support than AMD...so why would I go say to to PhysX and yes to lesser OpenCL GPU physics by going AMD?
    With NVIDIA I get the best of both PhysX and Bullet Physics...it's a nobrainer.
     
  3. blastingcap

    blastingcap Diamond Member

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    AFAIK, Batman and Mirror's Edge are the only 2 games where PhysX made more than a negligible difference in user experience. I willingly trade that for the ability to run 3 monitors on one GPU, which--unlike PhysX--is useful outside of games. :thumbsup: By the time hardware physics matters, I'll get a GTX 680 or 780 or something. :)
     
  4. blastingcap

    blastingcap Diamond Member

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    #654 blastingcap, Oct 19, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2010
  5. netxzero64

    netxzero64 Senior member

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    @tsavo

    you'll order a GTX 460 but you have 480 on quad SLI LOL!
     
  6. 3DVagabond

    3DVagabond Lifer

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    Being able to render 200 light sources w/post effects in real time rocks. Bullet physics is nice too. It's used in rendering other than games. Being able to render physics and lighting in animation aps. work view in real time. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

    I don't use Maya. Hopefully it can be used in other animation packages as well. :fingers crossed:
     
  7. Lonbjerg

    Lonbjerg Diamond Member

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    Yeah lets forget about:
    Darkest of Day (mest use of fog of war I have seen in a game)
    Cellfactor (Destructable architecture)
    GRAW 1 + 2 also made good use of PhysX
    And Mafia 2...with the excellent use of PhysX/APEX.

    Besides, 3 monitor gaming is not the next thing...physics is.
    Intel, AMD and NVIDIA all know this and are doing stuff to ensure they get it right.
    After that the next "big" thing is 3D.
    (look at what is happning in movies/games)
    AMD knows this too...hence the support for 3D in the 6xxx series.

    A dead world on 3 monitors is stil a dead world...still dead static gameplay.
    Times are shifting.

    And I have 2 CRT's plugged to my main rig...I have no use for a 3rd CRT (LCD's can't do black for *beeep*)...I just look forward to more physics in games and good 3D...hopefully soon with a VR like setup...monitors don't offer the best immersion ;)
     
  8. blastingcap

    blastingcap Diamond Member

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    #658 blastingcap, Oct 19, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2010
  9. edplayer

    edplayer Platinum Member

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    You have to be aware of them first before you can forget them... :awe:




    PhysX use in Mafia 2 looked pretty good. Never played it but just going by the videos:


    Capes flowing in the wind looked good.

    Bullets hitting the columns with debris coming off looked terrible. Should have been many sizes of debris all the way down to dust. Doubt current cards have anywhere near enough power to handle that. Should have left that one out.

    Glass breaking looked good
     
  10. Grooveriding

    Grooveriding Diamond Member

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    [​IMG]

    If these DX11 Dirt 2 benches are accurate and the 6850 & 6870 overclock half decently and scale accordingly looks like AMD will put the GTX 460 into a sales vacuum and force further pricedrops.

    [​IMG]

    If this 6850 Crossfire vs 460 SLI bench is accurate they've also improved Crossfire somehow.

    It's as if AMD went right after the two strengths nvidia had. A cheap decently performing mid-range card in the 460 and decent SLI scaling and the ability to SLI two 460s for GTX 480 performance.

    I still want to see Crysis Enthusiast with AA benches to see DX10 performance as well. Hope anand finally does away with the Crysis Warhead Enthusiast Shader/Gamer everything else benches and finally goes all enthusiast settings.
     
  11. blastingcap

    blastingcap Diamond Member

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    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/darkest-of-days = Metacritic score 51 (unclear if PhysX makes a difference, since it's a bad game I didn't bother looking up reviews talking about the PhysX)

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/cellfactor-revolution = Metacritic score 50 (unclear if PhysX makes a difference, since it's a bad game I didn't bother looking up reviews talking about the PhysX)

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/tom-clancys-ghost-recon-advanced-warfighter = Metacritic score 80

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/tom-clancys-ghost-recon-advanced-warfighter-2 = Metacritic score 76

    But see: http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=443 "On one hand, the card's additions to Ghost Recon and the couple other titles that are in retail that support PhysX, are less than spectacular. The changes in realism and visual quality are really minimal"

    http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/mafia-ii = Metacritic score 77 (user score was 7.0; not clear if the PhysX can make up for mediocre gameplay or if it's really that much of a loss to play without PhysX)

    See, e.g.: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/mafia_2_pc_game/ "If you're having difficulty seeing the difference, it's not your fault — there just isn't a huge difference. More debris and smoke is all you get along with a performance hit. If you look closely in the middle two comparisons, you can notice the difference between the PhysX objects and the animations. This, as mentioned, is the only real game changing element of PhysX, in which Vito will take damage if the objects hit him."

    See also: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2010/09/03/mafia-2-physx-performance/5 "There's no doubt that adding an extra graphics card gives a massive leap in FPS: from unplayable to playable, making CPU PhysX all but a non-option in Mafia 2 ... The question is, is it worth shelling out for an extra PhysX card to play Mafia 2? PhysX effects remain a purely visual addition to a game and while Mafia 2 makes better use of it than we've seen previously from titles like Batman: Arkham Asylum, is it worth the cost of the additional hardware just to run one game with the shiny turned on? From what we've seen, it's certainly worth using an ageing 8-series of GTX 2xx series card for PhysX if you already have one, but so far as buying a card expressly for PhysX or running an ATI/Nvidia Hybrid setup goes it might be that Mafia 2 is one game and you can live with turning PhysX off."

    If you have to get crappy games just to use PhysX (outside of Batman, ME, and I reluctantly add Mafia II to the list despite its mediocre gameplay), or a few decent games where PhysX didn't matter much, I think that's the tail wagging the dog. I revise my statement slightly by saying that only Batman/ME/Mafia II's use of PhysX made much of a difference. Getting PhysX for two or three games? Whatever, maybe in a few GPU generations it will matter.

    I have no comment on your not needing more than 2 CRTs; to each his or her own. I just know that I'd take single-GPU 3-way monitors over PhysX any day of the week. I hope NV enables 3-way via single-GPU on their future GPUs.

    I think 3D may fizzle out yet again, like it has so many times in the past. But projectors/holodeck/something like VR would be great!

     
    #661 blastingcap, Oct 19, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2010
  12. Lonyo

    Lonyo Lifer

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    Keep the PhysX 'discussion' out of a speculation thread about the HD6850/6870 please (and that include.s with Lonbjerg and those responding to him)

    There are many threads all about PhysX which are appropriate for PhysX discussion. It's effectively just thread crapping.

    Back to the leaked benchmarks: They would appear to show both cards outperforming the HD5850 in theory, since in Dirt 2 it's equal with the GTX460 1GB, and in Battleforge it's maybe 10% faster, while those benchmarks show bigger leads for even the HD6850, so that's a pretty significant improvement in DX11 performance.
     
  13. blastingcap

    blastingcap Diamond Member

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    Silverforce said a 6850 is significantly better at DX11 and a bit worse in DX9, compared to a HD5850...
     
  14. Rezident

    Rezident Senior member

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    Mirror’s Edge had one lovely breaking glass effect that I assume was PhysX, other than that I didn’t notice anything else on two full playthroughs. Batman – after I heard about the amazing, life-changing PhysX and sheer AWESOMENESS of the PhysX effect on the Scarecrow levels, I swapped in my old 8800GTX and did not notice a single difference (from my 4890) playing through the whole game again. So disappointed with PhysX, it’s 90% Marketing, 10% effects that some people may notice if they’re specifically looking out for them. Gimmick.
     
  15. AtenRa

    AtenRa Lifer

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    [​IMG]

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    #665 AtenRa, Oct 19, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2010
  16. Lonbjerg

    Lonbjerg Diamond Member

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    Impossible.
    These cards ARE being compared to NVIDIA's offerings...even powerconsumption is being compared...and since AMD's now demos Bullet physics (GPU physics) on these cards...you want to make a rule that you cannot compare THAT feature?

    I'd tell you where to stuff that, but I would get an infraction for that.

    GPU physics IS a part of AMD's material for these cards...live with it.
     
    #666 Lonbjerg, Oct 19, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2010
  17. maddie

    maddie Golden Member

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    As hard to believe as it sounds, I've read the Dirt 2 test is ONE Radeon card NOT Crossfire. You need 2 Nvidia in Sli for 3 monitors. If true, this is VERY impressive.
     
  18. Lonbjerg

    Lonbjerg Diamond Member

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    I could take you seriously if you had actullay played the games...and about meta-*beeep*

    As long as MW2 has a meta-crap higher than 1...that system is flawed.
     
  19. Timorous

    Timorous Senior member

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    This reminds me of the 48xx launch where AMD compared the 4850 to the 8800GT and the 4870 to the 9800GTX but in reality the 4850 > 9800GTX and the 4870 was ~= GTX260. I have a feeling they are playing a similar game this time round, managing expectations to then exceed them once the reviews come out later on this week.
     
  20. Lonbjerg

    Lonbjerg Diamond Member

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    You must be blind:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GyKCM-Bpuw
     
  21. Grooveriding

    Grooveriding Diamond Member

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  22. james1701

    james1701 Golden Member

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    I guess the launch of these are delaying this months driver update.
     
  23. Borealis7

    Borealis7 Platinum Member

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    very impressive slides. better performance on less silicone = win in my book.
    but i agree its very weird they are comparing the new cards vs GTX460 768MB...unless they plan on pricing the 6850 right against it which would be even more win!
     
  24. Lonyo

    Lonyo Lifer

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    Well the 6850 is maybe ~20% average based on those numbers, while the 1GB 460 is less than 15% faster, so that would put the 6850 basically on a level with at least a stock clocked 460 1GB (knocking off a bit from the ATI figures because they are likely to be biased).

    So if it comes in somewhere below the GTX460 1GB and above the GTX460 768MB it would be decent value for money. Ideally it would put more pressure on the (already good value) GTX460 cards. Hard to argue with a $140 (AR) GTX 460 768MB. Regualr price is what, $170? So an HD6850 at $180 (speculated price) would be better value for most people over the GTX460, and put pressure on it to drop, and the 1GB to maybe $200 standard, and then $240 for the HD6870.
     
  25. AtenRa

    AtenRa Lifer

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    HD68xx = Reconfigured Cypress

    Reconfigured Front end by doubling the Ultra-Thread Dispatch Processor, doubling the Cache, now we have 2x Instruction Cache and 2x Constant Cache and finally a new generation Tessellator in the Graphics Engine.

    This will get a better ILP and feed better the shaders.

    I believe the ROPs mast have been optimized in order to have a better Anti-Aliasing and Anisotropic Filtering. That’s the reason 6870 have better performance than 5850 in high filters like 8x AA and 16x AF.
     
    #675 AtenRa, Oct 19, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2010
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