First private ER centre opens in Canada

[Firebot]

:thumbsup:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s.../private_er_061124/20061124?hub=Canada

Canada's first private ER to begin service
Updated Fri. Nov. 24 2006 11:13 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Vancouver's False Creek Surgical Centre currently performs procedures for a fee, ranging from cosmetic plastic surgeries to joint replacement surgery and radiology.

The centre has outraged B.C. NDP Leader Carole James, who has demanded the resignation of George Abbott, the province's health minister.

"It's clearly a violation of the Canada Health Act," she told CTV Vancouver on Friday.

"I understand the pressures patients are feeling, waiting in emergency rooms for hours to try and get service and support, but that's because of the government's mismanagement of our public health care system."

On Friday, the centre intends to also begin providing fee-based emergency services similar to those provided in small public hospitals.

False Creek spokesperson Sherry Weibe said the centre is not meant to act as an emergency room.

"We're really here ... to take those patients that are described to be in the 57 per cent of patients who really shouldn't be in emergency rooms," she said.

The private medical centre won't be able to accept patients from ambulances or let patients stay longer than 24 hours, because it hasn't received full approval from the province to do so.

According to reports, administrators from the centre wrote to the provincial health ministry several months ago to apprise it of its plans, but received no reply. They eventually decided to go ahead with plans to offer emergency service anyway.

It will be the first time a private clinic in Canada has offered emergency services.

An evaluation fee is expected to cost $199, and CTV Vancouver reports that patients will pay about $50 for an X-ray, and $70 for a blood test.

"We think that in terms of what the cost of hockey tickets are today, and what the cost of going to see a vet is, it's very affordable fees," said Weibe.

On its website, the centre boasts three operating rooms, six recovery beds and five rooms for overnight stays. It also has a three to one patient to nurse ratio.

The centre's hours are currently Monday to Friday, from 7:30 a.m. until 6 p.m. and Saturday from 8 a.m. until 4 p.m.

The emergency hours will be closer to traditional hospital ER hours, running from 8 a.m. til 11 p.m. seven days a week.

Critics say the development is evidence the government is turning a blind eye to the growth of private medical services, while hospital employee unions say it promotes inequity in the health care system

This is a very controversial subject in Canada, but I'm hoping this clinic is found to be constitutional and leads to more of these private ER clinics to pop up over the rest of Canada. Our healthcare system may be light years better then the American healthcare system right now, but the system is far from perfect and this 2 tiered form of healthcare brings the best of both worlds.

 

[Genx87]

"I understand the pressures patients are feeling, waiting in emergency rooms for hours to try and get service and support, but that's because of the government's mismanagement of our public health care system."

Color me surprised, and yet we are going to head down this path soon enough in the states. But according to some govt handles things better lol

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

"I understand the pressures patients are feeling, waiting in emergency rooms for hours to try and get service and support, but that's because of the government's mismanagement of our public health care system."

Color me surprised, and yet we are going to head down this path soon enough in the states. But according to some govt handles things better lol

Uh, the Canadian system IS better. Just because we are not satisfied with better then average healthcare does not suddenly make the American system better.

 

[yllus]

Fsck the NDP, and fsck the ridiculous restriction against private care the Canada Health Act places upon us. The public/private system can't come soon enough.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: Genx87

"I understand the pressures patients are feeling, waiting in emergency rooms for hours to try and get service and support, but that's because of the government's mismanagement of our public health care system."

Color me surprised, and yet we are going to head down this path soon enough in the states. But according to some govt handles things better lol

Uh, the Canadian system IS better. Just because we are not satisfied with better then average healthcare does not suddenly make the American system better.

Better to YOU maybe. I quite like that we have. And if yours is so much better why do Canadians come here for treatment?

I LIKE not waiting in line. Longest wait I've ever had in the office was roughly an hour. Longest wait to GET into the office was I believe a week to see a specialist. And if I wasnt happy with his diagnosis, I was able to choose another specialist to go to.

I LIKE my choices, I LIKE my service.

The very fact you have private clinics opening should be some clue to you that your system might not be all its cracked up to be. If it was, why open private clinics?

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: Genx87

"I understand the pressures patients are feeling, waiting in emergency rooms for hours to try and get service and support, but that's because of the government's mismanagement of our public health care system."

Color me surprised, and yet we are going to head down this path soon enough in the states. But according to some govt handles things better lol

Uh, the Canadian system IS better. Just because we are not satisfied with better then average healthcare does not suddenly make the American system better.

Better to YOU maybe. I quite like that we have. And if yours is so much better why do Canadians come here for treatment?

I LIKE not waiting in line. Longest wait I've ever had in the office was roughly an hour. Longest wait to GET into the office was I believe a week to see a specialist. And if I wasnt happy with his diagnosis, I was able to choose another specialist to go to.

I LIKE my choices, I LIKE my service.

The very fact you have private clinics opening should be some clue to you that your system might not be all its cracked up to be. If it was, why open private clinics?

You shouldn't read freerepublic.com for news on Canada's healthcare system, they are going to be heavily biased against it. For every horror story that comes from Canada's healthcare system and a person dying while in a waiting list for surgery, there is a horror story coming from the US about medical bankruptcies or people dying because they couldn't afford preventative healthcare. Many businesses also come to Canada specifically due to our healthcare, and as such their healthcare insurance costs are much lower here (i.e. GM and Ford's plants in Canada being upgraded while plants in the US are being shut down). We may be losing doctors to the US due to pay being much better in the private US system, but we are also gaining businesses and jobs due to the same system.

I would never for one second trade the current Canadian system for the US's system, and I'm a conservative. I would trade the Canadian system for a 2 tiered private / public system, and this is what most conservatives in this country want. Why would I advocate lowering our current healthcare quality to the US level though? I LIKE not having a 10K bill forced down my throat simply because I become sick or an accident happens, putting me in financial difficulty due to an unforseen event.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: Genx87

"I understand the pressures patients are feeling, waiting in emergency rooms for hours to try and get service and support, but that's because of the government's mismanagement of our public health care system."

Color me surprised, and yet we are going to head down this path soon enough in the states. But according to some govt handles things better lol

Uh, the Canadian system IS better. Just because we are not satisfied with better then average healthcare does not suddenly make the American system better.

Better to YOU maybe. I quite like that we have. And if yours is so much better why do Canadians come here for treatment?

I LIKE not waiting in line. Longest wait I've ever had in the office was roughly an hour. Longest wait to GET into the office was I believe a week to see a specialist. And if I wasnt happy with his diagnosis, I was able to choose another specialist to go to.

I LIKE my choices, I LIKE my service.

The very fact you have private clinics opening should be some clue to you that your system might not be all its cracked up to be. If it was, why open private clinics?

You shouldn't read freerepublic.com for news on Canada's healthcare system, they are going to be heavily biased against it. For every horror story that comes from Canada's healthcare system and a person dying while in a waiting list for surgery, there is a horror story coming from the US about medical bankruptcies or people dying because they couldn't afford preventative healthcare. Many businesses also come to Canada specifically due to our healthcare, and as such their healthcare insurance costs are much lower here (i.e. GM and Ford's plants in Canada being upgraded while plants in the US are being shut down). We may be losing doctors to the US due to pay being much better in the private US system, but we are also gaining businesses and jobs due to the same system.

I would never for one second trade the current Canadian system for the US's system, and I'm a conservative. I would trade the Canadian system for a 2 tiered private / public system, and this is what most conservatives in this country want. Why would I advocate lowering our current healthcare quality to the US level though? I LIKE not having a 10K bill forced down my throat simply because I become sick or an accident happens, putting me in financial difficulty due to an unforseen event.

Couldn't agree with you more. It's really sad when the richest country cannot take basic care of it own citizens.

 

[Genx87]

Your own link talks about a private clinic opening and the gridlock in the system. His point is correct, if the public system was\is all it is cracked upto be, why is a private clinic opening?

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Better to YOU maybe. I quite like that we have. And if yours is so much better why do Canadians come here for treatment?

The vast majority don't and those that do come for doctors that are very skilled in specific areas. You have no evidence that this is related to our private system.

Originally posted by: Specop 007
I LIKE not waiting in line.

Have you ever been to an emergency room? I broke my ankle earlier this year and had to wait five hours before getting treated.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: Genx87

"I understand the pressures patients are feeling, waiting in emergency rooms for hours to try and get service and support, but that's because of the government's mismanagement of our public health care system."

Color me surprised, and yet we are going to head down this path soon enough in the states. But according to some govt handles things better lol

Uh, the Canadian system IS better. Just because we are not satisfied with better then average healthcare does not suddenly make the American system better.

Better to YOU maybe. I quite like that we have. And if yours is so much better why do Canadians come here for treatment?

I LIKE not waiting in line. Longest wait I've ever had in the office was roughly an hour. Longest wait to GET into the office was I believe a week to see a specialist. And if I wasnt happy with his diagnosis, I was able to choose another specialist to go to.

I LIKE my choices, I LIKE my service.

The very fact you have private clinics opening should be some clue to you that your system might not be all its cracked up to be. If it was, why open private clinics?

You shouldn't read freerepublic.com for news on Canada's healthcare system, they are going to be heavily biased against it. For every horror story that comes from Canada's healthcare system and a person dying while in a waiting list for surgery, there is a horror story coming from the US about medical bankruptcies or people dying because they couldn't afford preventative healthcare. Many businesses also come to Canada specifically due to our healthcare, and as such their healthcare insurance costs are much lower here (i.e. GM and Ford's plants in Canada being upgraded while plants in the US are being shut down). We may be losing doctors to the US due to pay being much better in the private US system, but we are also gaining businesses and jobs due to the same system.

I would never for one second trade the current Canadian system for the US's system, and I'm a conservative. I would trade the Canadian system for a 2 tiered private / public system, and this is what most conservatives in this country want. Why would I advocate lowering our current healthcare quality to the US level though? I LIKE not having a 10K bill forced down my throat simply because I become sick or an accident happens, putting me in financial difficulty due to an unforseen event.

Couldn't agree with you more. It's really sad when the richest country cannot take basic care of it own citizens.

Startup a charity if you are so worried.

 

[Genx87]

I LIKE not having a 10K bill forced down my throat simply because I become sick or an accident happens, putting me in financial difficulty due to an unforseen event.

Get insurance, anyways I dont enjoy having thousands of dollars in taxation a year rammed down my throat when I never use the system either.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: Genx87

I LIKE not having a 10K bill forced down my throat simply because I become sick or an accident happens, putting me in financial difficulty due to an unforseen event.

Get insurance, anyways I dont enjoy having thousands of dollars in taxation a year rammed down my throat when I never use the system either.

We all know how well the insurance industry handles cases. Provided insurance actually covers what you go in for, or they don't outright reject the claim. Even if they do, well, welcome to bankruptcy because of how the insurance industry raised prices on everything a doctor has to do. Yes, its much better.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: Genx87

"I understand the pressures patients are feeling, waiting in emergency rooms for hours to try and get service and support, but that's because of the government's mismanagement of our public health care system."

Color me surprised, and yet we are going to head down this path soon enough in the states. But according to some govt handles things better lol

Uh, the Canadian system IS better. Just because we are not satisfied with better then average healthcare does not suddenly make the American system better.

Better to YOU maybe. I quite like that we have. And if yours is so much better why do Canadians come here for treatment?

I LIKE not waiting in line. Longest wait I've ever had in the office was roughly an hour. Longest wait to GET into the office was I believe a week to see a specialist. And if I wasnt happy with his diagnosis, I was able to choose another specialist to go to.

I LIKE my choices, I LIKE my service.

The very fact you have private clinics opening should be some clue to you that your system might not be all its cracked up to be. If it was, why open private clinics?

Why do Americans come to Canada for Teatment?

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: Genx87

"I understand the pressures patients are feeling, waiting in emergency rooms for hours to try and get service and support, but that's because of the government's mismanagement of our public health care system."

Color me surprised, and yet we are going to head down this path soon enough in the states. But according to some govt handles things better lol

Uh, the Canadian system IS better. Just because we are not satisfied with better then average healthcare does not suddenly make the American system better.

Uh, No it isn't.

I actually wish the US would go to a cash based healthcare system. As much as the government would decimate our healthcare system, the insurance companies have done almost as much damage. Go cash based and bring back competition.

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

I LIKE not having a 10K bill forced down my throat simply because I become sick or an accident happens, putting me in financial difficulty due to an unforseen event.

Get insurance, anyways I dont enjoy having thousands of dollars in taxation a year rammed down my throat when I never use the system either.

Your insurance costs per capita more then our extra taxes per capita which goes to healthcare (this doesn't even take in account that the US government actually pays MORE per capita then the Canadian government in healthcare). You pay through taxes or you pay through insurance it makes no difference other then an illusion of 'choice'. Seriously, calculate your tax rate and add how much you pay for insurance, and you will see that you actually pay about the same as our overtaxed butts, and we actually get 'free' healthcare while your insurance unless it's at a premium rate will still not cover everything.

I just don't get what Republicans fear about an actual healthcare system which doesn't put you on the streets simply because you get hit by a virus or a disease.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: Firebot


I just don't get what Republicans fear about an actual healthcare system which doesn't put you on the streets simply because you get hit by a virus or a disease.

It's called Greed

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: Specop 007
Better to YOU maybe. I quite like that we have. And if yours is so much better why do Canadians come here for treatment?

The vast majority don't and those that do come for doctors that are very skilled in specific areas. You have no evidence that this is related to our private system.

Originally posted by: Specop 007
I LIKE not waiting in line.

Have you ever been to an emergency room? I broke my ankle earlier this year and had to wait five hours before getting treated.

That depends on the hospital more than anything. As a rule most of the hospitals in metro Detroit wont make you wait that long, most of the major hospital systems have systems in place so that you'll see a doctor in less than 30 minutes.

I was working last weekend and had this nasty infection in my hand so before I started my shift I went down to our ER...well technically I work in the ER but either way, since it wasnt a work related incident I had to wait in line like everyone else, employee of the ER or not, however I was triaged in 5 minutes, taken back to a bed, had the clerk take my insurance info, while the nurse offered me a free HIV test and pain medicine if I wanted it. 5 minutes after that the doctor came checked out my hand, took a scalpel made a small cut, drained some pus and blood discharge, put a dressing on, wrote me a script for antibiotics and sent me on my way.

I was in there for 30 minutes tops.

Then I just punched in and started working

But my case is not the exception, we move people in, treat them, then either show them the door or admit them.

Sorry for thread crapping.

On point tho, the US needs a public/private system and perhaps Canada does too.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: Genx87

I LIKE not having a 10K bill forced down my throat simply because I become sick or an accident happens, putting me in financial difficulty due to an unforseen event.

Get insurance, anyways I dont enjoy having thousands of dollars in taxation a year rammed down my throat when I never use the system either.

Your insurance costs per capita more then our extra taxes per capita which goes to healthcare (this doesn't even take in account that the US government actually pays MORE per capita then the Canadian government in healthcare). You pay through taxes or you pay through insurance it makes no difference other then an illusion of 'choice'. Seriously, calculate your tax rate and add how much you pay for insurance, and you will see that you actually pay about the same as our overtaxed butts, and we actually get 'free' healthcare while your insurance unless it's at a premium rate will still not cover everything.

I just don't get what Republicans fear about an actual healthcare system which doesn't put you on the streets simply because you get hit by a virus or a disease.

That may true for Canada, however in the United States if we were to take over healthcare costs it will add another ~ 700 billion onto our budget. That is about 2400 bucks per person and I can guarantee you right now my insurance costs are nowhere near 2400 bucks. The total costs for me as a tax payer would come to on avg about 5K a year. Even if I wasnt under an employer health plan if I went out and got insurance it wouldnt come close to 5K a year.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Orignal Earl

Originally posted by: Firebot


I just don't get what Republicans fear about an actual healthcare system which doesn't put you on the streets simply because you get hit by a virus or a disease.

It's called Greed

It is called knowing govt is nothing but one screwup after the next. Do I want to put my health in the hands of something that screws up as bad without accountability as the govt?

No thanks.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

I LIKE not waiting in line. Longest wait I've ever had in the office was roughly an hour. Longest wait to GET into the office was I believe a week to see a specialist. And if I wasnt happy with his diagnosis, I was able to choose another specialist to go to.

I LIKE my choices, I LIKE my service.

Im a Canuk and like all the same things and get them

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: Genx87

I LIKE not having a 10K bill forced down my throat simply because I become sick or an accident happens, putting me in financial difficulty due to an unforseen event.

Get insurance, anyways I dont enjoy having thousands of dollars in taxation a year rammed down my throat when I never use the system either.

We all know how well the insurance industry handles cases. Provided insurance actually covers what you go in for, or they don't outright reject the claim. Even if they do, well, welcome to bankruptcy because of how the insurance industry raised prices on everything a doctor has to do. Yes, its much better.

There is no gurantee a govt run plan will cover every procedure either.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Originally posted by: Genx87


It is called knowing govt is nothing but one screwup after the next.

You'll say that today for this topic and tomorrow you'll tow the line for your fav politician

 

[Firebot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: Genx87

I LIKE not having a 10K bill forced down my throat simply because I become sick or an accident happens, putting me in financial difficulty due to an unforseen event.

Get insurance, anyways I dont enjoy having thousands of dollars in taxation a year rammed down my throat when I never use the system either.

Your insurance costs per capita more then our extra taxes per capita which goes to healthcare (this doesn't even take in account that the US government actually pays MORE per capita then the Canadian government in healthcare). You pay through taxes or you pay through insurance it makes no difference other then an illusion of 'choice'. Seriously, calculate your tax rate and add how much you pay for insurance, and you will see that you actually pay about the same as our overtaxed butts, and we actually get 'free' healthcare while your insurance unless it's at a premium rate will still not cover everything.

I just don't get what Republicans fear about an actual healthcare system which doesn't put you on the streets simply because you get hit by a virus or a disease.

That may true for Canada, however in the United States if we were to take over healthcare costs it will add another ~ 700 billion onto our budget. That is about 2400 bucks per person and I can guarantee you right now my insurance costs are nowhere near 2400 bucks. The total costs for me as a tax payer would come to on avg about 5K a year. Even if I wasnt under an employer health plan if I went out and got insurance it wouldnt come close to 5K a year.

The only reason why it would cost ~700 billion more, is because your healthcare costs are outrageously inflated. If the medical industry in the US was regulated and subsidized, the cost overall would be much lower.

Here's also some hard numbers on the issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

Health care is one of the most expensive items of both nations? budgets. The United States spends more per capita on health care than the government does in Canada. In 2003, the government of Canada spent $1886 (in US dollars) per person on health care, while the United States government spent $2548.[11]

Despite the American government paying more per capita, private sources also pay far more for health care in the United States. In Canada an average of $630 dollars is spent annually by individuals or private insurance companies for health care, including dental, eye care, and drugs. In the United States this number is $2719. In 2001 the United States spent in total 13.6% of its annual GDP on health care. In Canada only 9.5% of the GDP was spent on health care. This difference is a relatively recent development. In 1971 the nations were much closer with Canada spending 7.1% of GDP on health while the U.S. spent 7.6%.

And realize I'm not AGAINST privatization at all. I'm for it, but the answer is a 2 tiered system, not a socialist or a purely capitalist system. Even then though, the socialist program yields better results then the capitalist system.

I actually work in the medical industry, and I can tell you that medical companies are very profitable even in this subsidized system, as even though the healthcare system on the surface to individuals is public, the rest of the system is private.

 

[2Xtreme21]

HMO's are one of the single worst things in existance.

 

[ScottyB]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Firebot

Originally posted by: Genx87

"I understand the pressures patients are feeling, waiting in emergency rooms for hours to try and get service and support, but that's because of the government's mismanagement of our public health care system."

Color me surprised, and yet we are going to head down this path soon enough in the states. But according to some govt handles things better lol

Uh, the Canadian system IS better. Just because we are not satisfied with better then average healthcare does not suddenly make the American system better.

Better to YOU maybe. I quite like that we have. And if yours is so much better why do Canadians come here for treatment?

I LIKE not waiting in line. Longest wait I've ever had in the office was roughly an hour. Longest wait to GET into the office was I believe a week to see a specialist. And if I wasnt happy with his diagnosis, I was able to choose another specialist to go to.

I LIKE my choices, I LIKE my service.

The very fact you have private clinics opening should be some clue to you that your system might not be all its cracked up to be. If it was, why open private clinics?

Longest one hour? I have waited 7 hours for treatment once in an E.R. I also waited for nearly three hours when I sliced my thumb. I had a white bar rag that was literally soaked entirely with blood--the whole damn thing was red. Two doctors walked by me while I waited; one doctor laughed and said, "Looks like somebody lost a digit." American hospitals suck.