First Drive: 2004 Cadillac CTS-V - GM comes correct

[vi edit]

Question - does this pretty much slash right between the M3 & M5?

Just a smidge above M3 price, but a hair under M5 size? And performance that matches either of them?

 

[Mr N8]

They claim that it is up to par with the M5, and has a higer top speed because of the speed limiting in BMWs.

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Question - does this pretty much slash right between the M3 & M5?

Just a smidge above M3 price, but a hair under M5 size? And performance that matches either of them?

Pretty much, yes. It might even sell for less than the M3 depending on dealer markup on each car.

 

[Aharami]

this one damn good lookin car. i always stared at it everytime i saw it on the road. and now with the new grill and the 18" rims, it looks so sweet! i wanna see what the intrumentation looks like though

 

[CtK]

would rather have a BMW M3
and damn that is a nasty ass interior!!! $50Gs for that!!!
the engine cover looks nicer than the interior hahahaha

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: BigSmooth

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Question - does this pretty much slash right between the M3 & M5?

Just a smidge above M3 price, but a hair under M5 size? And performance that matches either of them?

Pretty much, yes. It might even sell for less than the M3 depending on dealer markup on each car.

I was about to add something like that.

GM never sells a car for MSRP unless it is a NEW and rare model. Look at the Pontiac Sunfire. They list for like $14K but you can get one for 10K new easy.
Gm has a high price then offers rebates and % intrest savings. That way if the car is hot, ala Corvette etc..., they can cut the rebates. But if it is not in SUPER high demand then look for dealers and GM to lower the price quite well.

So if the MSRP is 50K I say you can get one from $47-41K depending on what time of the year it is.

 

[Cfour]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: BigSmooth

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Question - does this pretty much slash right between the M3 & M5?

Just a smidge above M3 price, but a hair under M5 size? And performance that matches either of them?

Pretty much, yes. It might even sell for less than the M3 depending on dealer markup on each car.

I was about to add something like that.

GM never sells a car for MSRP unless it is a NEW and rare model. Look at the Pontiac Sunfire. They list for like $14K but you can get one for 10K new easy.
Gm has a high price then offers rebates and % intrest savings. That way if the car is hot, ala Corvette etc..., they can cut the rebates. But if it is not in SUPER high demand then look for dealers and GM to lower the price quite well.

So if the MSRP is 50K I say you can get one from $47-41K depending on what time of the year it is.

I wouldn't expect them to do this with their halo brand, Cadillac. Especially on a very limited production vehicle like this one. Hell, I bet it is already sold out.. I think I read somehwere the XLR already was.

 

[RMSistight]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: RMSistight
$50,000 for a GM car? Yeah right. I'd rather go with BMW, Acura, or America's #1 luxury automaker: Lexus.

I'll tell you this: Ford, GM, and Chrysler still have a LONG way to go before matching up with foreign automakers.

I do admit the car looks nice.

You can have your 260hp, FWD Acura. I'll take the 400hp RWD Cadillac.

Who said anything about hp? I consider everything in a car...especially quality and reliability. Understand this, by the "end of 2002, Honda along with it's Acura division had already sold over 1 million cars. In 2002, they made more money than Ford, GM, and Chrysler COMBINED. "* We'll see how long the big three will last. I do believe Ford just annouced layoffs too. I can agree that they car is powerful and nice looking. But in the end, it's all about how well the business is doing and it ain't doing so well.



*"The End of Detroit: How the Big Three Lost Their Grip on the American Car Market" by Micheline Maynard
Page 4, Copyright 2003

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Question - does this pretty much slash right between the M3 & M5?

Just a smidge above M3 price, but a hair under M5 size? And performance that matches either of them?

i've sat in both a bmw 5 series and a caddy cts at an auto show and the caddy seemed larger. the previous 5 was an EPA compact.



and who the hell feels up their dashboard anyway?

 

[Cfour]

Originally posted by: RMSistight

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: RMSistight
$50,000 for a GM car? Yeah right. I'd rather go with BMW, Acura, or America's #1 luxury automaker: Lexus.

I'll tell you this: Ford, GM, and Chrysler still have a LONG way to go before matching up with foreign automakers.

I do admit the car looks nice.

You can have your 260hp, FWD Acura. I'll take the 400hp RWD Cadillac.

Who said anything about hp? I consider everything in a car...especially quality and reliability. Understand this, by the "end of 2002, Honda along with it's Acura division had already sold over 1 million cars. In 2002, they made more money than Ford, GM, and Chrysler COMBINED. "* We'll see how long the big three will last. I do believe Ford just annouced layoffs too. I can agree that they car is powerful and nice looking. But in the end, it's all about how well the business is doing and it ain't doing so well.



*"The End of Detroit: How the Big Three Lost Their Grip on the American Car Market" by Micheline Maynard
Page 4, Copyright 2003

Are you talking profit or revenue? Because there is no way in hell they made more revenue.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: RMSistight
Who said anything about hp? I consider everything in a car...especially quality and reliability. Understand this, by the "end of 2002, Honda along with it's Acura division had already sold over 1 million cars. In 2002, they made more money than Ford, GM, and Chrysler COMBINED. "* We'll see how long the big three will last. I do believe Ford just annouced layoffs too.

We're comparing the merits of a vehicle while you're complaing about how domestics are losing their grip on the market.

Who cares? For your information, JD Power put Cadillac ahead of Honda and just behind Acura in their Vehicle Dependability Study.

I can agree that they car is powerful and nice looking. But in the end, it's all about how well the business is doing and it ain't doing so well.

No, in the end, that does not matter; not a single damn bit. When I purchase a vehicle, the health of the corporation is the last of my concerns.

 

[RMSistight]

Originally posted by: Cfour

Originally posted by: RMSistight

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis

Originally posted by: RMSistight
$50,000 for a GM car? Yeah right. I'd rather go with BMW, Acura, or America's #1 luxury automaker: Lexus.

I'll tell you this: Ford, GM, and Chrysler still have a LONG way to go before matching up with foreign automakers.

I do admit the car looks nice.

You can have your 260hp, FWD Acura. I'll take the 400hp RWD Cadillac.

Who said anything about hp? I consider everything in a car...especially quality and reliability. Understand this, by the "end of 2002, Honda along with it's Acura division had already sold over 1 million cars. In 2002, they made more money than Ford, GM, and Chrysler COMBINED. "* We'll see how long the big three will last. I do believe Ford just annouced layoffs too. I can agree that they car is powerful and nice looking. But in the end, it's all about how well the business is doing and it ain't doing so well.



*"The End of Detroit: How the Big Three Lost Their Grip on the American Car Market" by Micheline Maynard
Page 4, Copyright 2003

Are you talking profit or revenue? Because there is no way in hell they made more revenue.

I do believe it's profit. But it could be both profit and revenue considering the #1 and #2 automakers are Toyota and Honda. I mean...isn't the point of running a business to make money? All these 0.0% financing at all these GM dealerships is actually hurting the business.

"Today, only 1,287 dealers sell approximately 2 million Toyota and Lexus cars a year, while there are 4,500 Chevrolet dealers selling a similar number of vehicles."*


*"The End of Detroit: How the Big Three Lost Their Grip on the American Car Market" by Micheline Maynard
Page 21, Copyright 2003

 

[vi edit]

"Today, only 1,287 dealers sell approximately 2 million Toyota and Lexus cars a year, while there are 4,500 Chevrolet dealers selling a similar number of vehicles."*

WTF difference does the number of dealers make? NONE. Do you have any idea how many Mom & Pop Chevy & Ford dealers there are in rurual towns? A TON. Just about any town in the midwest with over 1,000 people in it has a Ford and/or a Chevy dealer. Many times they only have about 5-10 new cars on the lot. So what. The number of dealers means jack crap.

 

[RMSistight]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: RMSistight
Who said anything about hp? I consider everything in a car...especially quality and reliability. Understand this, by the "end of 2002, Honda along with it's Acura division had already sold over 1 million cars. In 2002, they made more money than Ford, GM, and Chrysler COMBINED. "* We'll see how long the big three will last. I do believe Ford just annouced layoffs too.

We're comparing the merits of a vehicle while you're complaing about how domestics are losing their grip on the market.

Who cares? For your information, JD Power put Cadillac ahead of Honda and just behind Acura in their Vehicle Dependability Study.

I can agree that they car is powerful and nice looking. But in the end, it's all about how well the business is doing and it ain't doing so well.

No, in the end, that does not matter; not a single damn bit. When I purchase a vehicle, the health of the corporation is the last of my concerns.

So you're saying that you wouldn't care if GM didn't exist in 2010? If GM is gone, what happens to your warranty? Your free maintenance and repairs? What about the resale value of your car? The health of the corporation should be very important to the buyer.

"Indeed, there is a strong chance that by the end of this decade, at least one of Detroit's Big Three (Ford, GM, and GERMAN owned Chrysler) will not continue in the same form that it is in now."*

*"The End of Detroit: How the Big Three Lost Their Grip on the American Car Market" by Micheline Maynard
Page 10, Copyright 2003

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: RMSistight

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: RMSistight
Who said anything about hp? I consider everything in a car...especially quality and reliability. Understand this, by the "end of 2002, Honda along with it's Acura division had already sold over 1 million cars. In 2002, they made more money than Ford, GM, and Chrysler COMBINED. "* We'll see how long the big three will last. I do believe Ford just annouced layoffs too.

We're comparing the merits of a vehicle while you're complaing about how domestics are losing their grip on the market.

Who cares? For your information, JD Power put Cadillac ahead of Honda and just behind Acura in their Vehicle Dependability Study.

I can agree that they car is powerful and nice looking. But in the end, it's all about how well the business is doing and it ain't doing so well.

No, in the end, that does not matter; not a single damn bit. When I purchase a vehicle, the health of the corporation is the last of my concerns.

So you're saying that you wouldn't care if GM didn't exist in 2010? If GM is gone, what happens to your warranty? Your free maintenance and repairs? What about the resale value of your car? The health of the corporation should be very important to the buyer.

"Indeed, there is a strong chance that by the end of this decade, at least one of Detroit's Big Three (Ford, GM, and GERMAN owned Chrysler) will not continue in the same form that it is in now."*

*"The End of Detroit: How the Big Three Lost Their Grip on the American Car Market" by Micheline Maynard
Page 10, Copyright 2003

GM is not going anywhere. They juts announced around a 500million profit for the last quarter. GM is NOT KIA.

 

[RMSistight]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

"Today, only 1,287 dealers sell approximately 2 million Toyota and Lexus cars a year, while there are 4,500 Chevrolet dealers selling a similar number of vehicles."*

WTF difference does the number of dealers make? NONE. Do you have any idea how many Mom & Pop Chevy & Ford dealers there are in rurual towns? A TON. Just about any town in the midwest with over 1,000 people in it has a Ford and/or a Chevy dealer. Many times they only have about 5-10 new cars on the lot. So what. The number of dealers means jack crap.

Means crap? So you're telling me that somethings that uses less and produces more output is not better than something that uses a lot and produces the same output? The number of dealers has a huge effect for dealerships.

"Honda and Toyota were unhampered by the vast dealer organizations that Detroit companies had set up. Today, only 1,287 dealers sell approximately 2 million Toyota and Lexus cars a year, while there are 4,500 Chevrolet dealers selling a similar number of vehicles. Such a streamlined organization made two things possible: First, dealers made more money on each Toyota or Lexus they sold. Second, they were able to communicate with management much more easily to share news from the showroom floor and provide a heads-up when problems arose."*


In the end, it's all about the $$$$. That's pretty much the first rule in business. You're in business to make money. I'm sure you would agree with me that making more money per vehicle with less dealerships is better than making less money per vehicle with many dealerships.

*"The End of Detroit: How the Big Three Lost Their Grip on the American Car Market" by Micheline Maynard
Page 21, Copyright 2003

 

[RMSistight]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: RMSistight

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: RMSistight
Who said anything about hp? I consider everything in a car...especially quality and reliability. Understand this, by the "end of 2002, Honda along with it's Acura division had already sold over 1 million cars. In 2002, they made more money than Ford, GM, and Chrysler COMBINED. "* We'll see how long the big three will last. I do believe Ford just annouced layoffs too.

We're comparing the merits of a vehicle while you're complaing about how domestics are losing their grip on the market.

Who cares? For your information, JD Power put Cadillac ahead of Honda and just behind Acura in their Vehicle Dependability Study.

I can agree that they car is powerful and nice looking. But in the end, it's all about how well the business is doing and it ain't doing so well.

No, in the end, that does not matter; not a single damn bit. When I purchase a vehicle, the health of the corporation is the last of my concerns.

So you're saying that you wouldn't care if GM didn't exist in 2010? If GM is gone, what happens to your warranty? Your free maintenance and repairs? What about the resale value of your car? The health of the corporation should be very important to the buyer.

"Indeed, there is a strong chance that by the end of this decade, at least one of Detroit's Big Three (Ford, GM, and GERMAN owned Chrysler) will not continue in the same form that it is in now."*

*"The End of Detroit: How the Big Three Lost Their Grip on the American Car Market" by Micheline Maynard
Page 10, Copyright 2003

GM is not going anywhere. They juts announced around a 500million profit for the last quarter. GM is NOT KIA.

But you do agree with me that the health of the corporation is important to the consumer right? OH yeah..Kia is owned my Hyundai Motors so yes GM is NOT KIA.

 

[vi edit]

Means crap? So you're telling me that somethings that uses less and produces more output is not better than something that uses a lot and produces the same output? The number of dealers is has a huge effect.

I'm not really sure how dealership rights break down, but suffice it to say, it isn't costing GM money(or a significant amount of money) to put a dealership in BFE Iowa. That dealer buys into the GM name, the dealer pays for local advertising, the dealer pays to put that car on the lot, ect. The only costs that I can really see are in POP materials(assuming they give them to the dealer and they aren't purchased). These are franchised out...not corporate stores.

If McDonalds puts a coporate run store out in BFI Iowa, and the store flops, McD corporate eats that cost. If a franchise want's to put a store in BFE Iowa, then the franchisee pays into the McD name, pays to put the store up, pays the employees, pays the monthly franchise fees, ect. And if it flops, then the franchisee is out money. Not McD corporate.

When a corporation franchises out, it lowers it's financial risk and offloads it onto the franchise.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: RMSistight
In the end, it's all about the $$$$. That's pretty much the first rule in business. You're in business to make money. I'm sure you would agree with me that making more money per vehicle with less dealerships is better than making less money per vehicle with many dealerships.

Whether it's 1,000 or 10,000 dealerships, GM cares about the volume of vehicles sold. Period. The number of dealerships only dillutes the average revenue each sees because of less volume sell-through. GM makes the same amount of money, either way.

When serious issues are found with a model just about every major manufacturer will have some sort of hotline or database to post bulletins and distribute information to the dealership.

 

[RMSistight]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed

Originally posted by: RMSistight
In the end, it's all about the $$$$. That's pretty much the first rule in business. You're in business to make money. I'm sure you would agree with me that making more money per vehicle with less dealerships is better than making less money per vehicle with many dealerships.

Whether it's 1,000 or 10,000 dealerships, GM cares about the volume of vehicles sold. Period. The number of dealerships only dillutes the average revenue each sees because of less volume sell-through. GM makes the same amount of money, either way.

When serious issues are found with a model just about every major manufacturer will have some sort of hotline or database to post bulletins and distribute information to the dealership.

But it's funny that less dealerships at Toyota make more money per vehicle and sell more vehicles than Chevy which has more dealerships, sells the equivalent of Toyota and makes mess money per vehicle. I wonder what would have if Toyota doubled their dealerships...4 millions vehicles? Nah..I guess they should keep it the way they like it.

 

[rubenswm]

"GM depends on financial products to stay afloat"

the bottom line: if GM was strictly a car company- they would be out of business right now.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: bolido2000

Originally posted by: OS It's too bad this car is so damn expensive or else I'd seriously consider getting one. I mean it's priced more or less appropriately for the class but my eyes are bigger than my wallet. 😀 I don't personally care too much about interiors as long as it doesn't look as bad as say a cavalier. It just has to be solid, clean looking and not rattle as the miles pile on. The thing is though, the other day this guy at work was talking so much sh*t about the corvette. He's like, "I bought a new corvette like two years ago and it was the worst POS car I've ever driven. That car had so many problems, I got rid of it after six months." Gives me pause on another GM car. :Q

I think consumer reports rated the Corvette with bad reliability (solid black circle). At the same time it got the best mark of satisfaction (solid red circle)

True, CR is the last place an enthusiast would look for information.