First Drive: 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid

[N8Magic]

Courtesy of Edmunds:

"It soon became apparent that this new, refined and improved Civic, rolling into showrooms in April and priced at about $20,000, was up to the challenge. It's not exactly a performance car, but it gets along briskly. And when you consider that its interior is especially attractive, and it gets 47 miles per gallon (with the manual transmission), you have a very appealing package. You could buy one and then shrug when gas prices double."

Link

It looks like Honda has (another) winner on its hands.

 

[BigSmooth]

I think it's great that they are offering a more environmentally-friendly car in a package that people are familiar with.

 

[gopunk]

good to see they've taken my advice and de-uglified the enviro-friendly cars

 

[N8Magic]

<< good to see they've taken my advice and de-uglified the enviro-friendly cars >>



Yup.

I think that held a number of buyers away from the super ugly Insight, and the kind of ugly (reminds me of an Echo) Prius. What they need to do is make some hybrid SUVs like Dodge has planned.

It isn't the Civics of the world that are gas guzzlers.

 

[Thegonagle]

Now that the tax incentives are gone for hybrids (good job, Ge-oil-rge Bush-ron), how likely are the domestics to keep devloping them if there's no short-term stock gain? (Joke's on them, IIRC, Honda's privately held. )

The Imports are continuing to beat the domestics at the game they invented. And do you think Honda and Toyota aren't already working on hybrid SUVs?

The Insight, IMO, wasn't a success because it was a tiny two seater, not because it was too ugly. And last I heard, Toyota can't keep up with demand for the 4 seater Prius sedan, which I think most people will say looks a lot better than the Echo.

 

[puffpio]

Honda is most definately NOT privately owned
check out HMC on the DJIA
Honda actually is on several different markets worldwide in addition to the Nikkei

 

[Ornery]

"...when gas prices double."

...it'll still be cheap! I don't care what American consumer sheep buy, I ain't buyin' it!

 

[Thegonagle]

<< Honda is most definately NOT privately owned >>

Damn, I couldn't have been more wrong. Time to go yell at that person who me that years ago.

 

[Ryan]

alright

 

[BigToque]

Something's wrong here... it's not ugly

 

[geno]

Yay! Maybe they'll stop getting riced out now that they're ridiculously slow

 

[DaiShan]

that inside is amazing, I own a honda, and love it!

 

[Pliablemoose]

Playing devil's advocate here, but several issues come to mind:

Purchase price of the hybrid is $20K (Honda dealers will sell it for 1-2K above MSRP for a full year), minus the price of a conventional Civic $13K = $7K. 45 mpg-36 mpg=9 mpg, you tell me if this car can ever pay for the added cost.

The intrest of the $7K would pay your gas bills for the conventional Honda alone.

Factor in leisurely performance, the unknown of how long the bank of batteries will last & their replacement cost, you'll have to take it to your local Honda shop for maintenance, cuz you won't want the liability of electrocuting you friendly neighborhood mechanic when he's changing you oil.

Don't get me wrong, I love Honda cars & respect the engineering, but it's a transitional technology, & I'd rather see the time & energy devoted to fuel cell technology or hydrogen powered vehicles.

 

[rahvin]

<< Don't get me wrong, I love Honda cars & respect the engineering, but it's a transitional technology, & I'd rather see the time & energy devoted to fuel cell technology or hydrogen powered vehicles. >>



Don't underestimate the importance of the hybrids to fuel cells. They are working out the manufacturing techniques. Replace the battery rack with a fuel cell powerplant drop the gas portion of the engine and you have the same car. This is all about testing new manufacturing for the upcoming revolution. The process engineering on changes like this is huge, they need time and experience doing the transitioning from what they know how to do.

 

[Rick974]

I'm sorry, but I refuse to buy a foreign car, and I don't care how good of a deal it is.


I'll always drive an American car.

 

[darthmango]

Bah. You can get a golf that gets over 50mpg with ton's more cargo space, engine that gives real power, costs less (16-18k), while running on a proven tech. The only innovation here is that they found a way to make you think you're getting a great deal.

Of course I would still see someone in one of these rather than an suv. My point is that this is not the first super efficent and practical car.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Rick974, what % domestic content do you feel makes an American car? The big 3 all have engine palnts/assembly plants in Mexico & Canada, Ford owns a big chunk of Mazda, Chrysler used to won a bit of Mistubishi, now Jeep is owned by the same country they helped devistate in WWII. Ford owns half a dozen foreign makes, including Jag & Volvo, Chevrolet has a big part of Isuzu and a bit of Toyota.

 

[Thegonagle]

<< Don't underestimate the importance of the hybrids to fuel cells. They are working out the manufacturing techniques. Replace the battery rack with a fuel cell powerplant drop the gas portion of the engine and you have the same car. This is all about testing new manufacturing for the upcoming revolution. The process engineering on changes like this is huge, they need time and experience doing the transitioning from what they know how to do. >>

I fully agree, and I feel that whether they know it yet or not, Bush did a real disservice to the domestic car makers by taking away incentives to build and develop hybrids. I?m not saying he did bad by giving incentives to develop fuel cell technology, but I don?t think he sees the whole picture here. That, or he sees exactly what he?s doing and is simply trying to increase the short term viability of his oil constituency, but is veiling it with environmentalism.

Sorry, I don?t see the VW TDI as a good solution either, since they pollute significantly more than gasoline, (hello, you can smell the stinkers from 75 yards back) and no, 90 HP is not ?real power.? There?s low end torque, but that can only do so much with 5 gears. Oh joy, only 1 in 8 filling stations have fuel I can use, it can't be counted on to start on a cold northern morning, I run out of top-end at 4000 RPM and I get turbo lag? Thanks, but that won't do it for me.

 

[thomsbrain]

<< Rick974, what % domestic content do you feel makes an American car? The big 3 all have engine palnts/assembly plants in Mexico & Canada, Ford owns a big chunk of Mazda, Chrysler used to won a bit of Mistubishi, now Jeep is owned by the same country they helped devistate in WWII. Ford owns half a dozen foreign makes, including Jag & Volvo, Chevrolet has a big part of Isuzu and a bit of Toyota. >>



In addition, almost all the big "japanese" cars are built in America. Accords, Camry's etc, are made in America. Meanwhile the "american" companies are building out of the country.
So when you buy American, not only are you doing the exact opposite of what intend (helping out the economy), you're also getting a piece of junk. The only Americans helped out by buying "american" are the executives. It's the Japanese who are the ones creating the jobs in America right now.

I used to buy American back when the cars were actually American. And when they were actually better. But around 1985, Honda and Toyota started beating the Big 3 at their own game.

 

[ed21x]

ugly environmental cars? i thought the Honda Insight was a good looking car,

 

[thomsbrain]

<< ugly environmental cars? i thought the Honda Insight was a good looking car, >>



It was sure different, but I wouldn't call it good looking. Still, it'd be cool to own one just because they are so much different than what everybody else drives.

 

[Jzero]

<< ugly environmental cars? i thought the Honda Insight was a good looking car, >>



I liked it...reminded me of an update to the CRX. WHen I was carshopping last month, I told my gf the prices on some things like the Protege5 and a few others and she was like "For that you could save up a little more and get that Insight...."
But she proved with that statement why I didn't want the Insight, no matter how "cool" I thought it was.
For ~$16k I could get the Protege5--4-doors, seats 5 people, has a good bit of cargo space, and some power.
Or I could spend MORE, get no power, no back seat, no trunk, a completely useless and economical car....theoretically....

Anyway, It's good to see an HEV that doesn't look like an HEV...I'm impressed.

 

[Thegonagle]

My sister is kicking herself for not buying the Insight when she could have gotten it for something likie $16,000. I hope she decides to go for a hybrid soon, so I can have her 2001 Civic HX. (She's even more of a freak about MPG than I am.)

 

[Pliablemoose]

I don't think the VW TDI is a solution either (even though I just bought a 2002 model, I'm just cheap & like diesels), but fuel cells & or hydrogen powered cars seem like to only way to go in the future.

The Birkenstock crowd will buy up every one of the Hybrid Civics made & Honda will happily charge $1-2K over MSRP, just like they did with the Insight.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Garfang, point your sister to this website: afvmarket.com, lots of used Insights, Prius, & other stuff...