I LOL'D.
Yes healthcare for all is a radical left idea! ProfJohn it's gotten to the point where I don't even believe you are a republican anymore. I think you are just an awesome troll. Keep up the good work.
I LOL'D.
Yes healthcare for all is a radical left idea! ProfJohn it's gotten to the point where I don't even believe you are a republican anymore. I think you are just an awesome troll. Keep up the good work.
haha. Seriously! This is the guy that had the Republicans doing a CLEAN SWEEP!
They got swept all right. Out the fricken' door!
The U.S. should spend billion up billion slaughtering people in Iraq, but damnit, we're not going to make life better for our own! Your position is beyond retarded.
That sounds about right. Although your last paragraph is a little bit over the top
Oh, and, Conjur, China isn't even close to a superpower. They're only recently reaching a capability to overtake Taiwan. And are we the freest nation? It's hard to say or even measure that. I know it's an ego thing to say we're number one, but that happens. I'd say as long as we're still mixed in with the other western countries, it can't be that bad
Personally, I hope there is an attempt to re-nationalize the parts of the military that were privatized over the past few years. It might be possible with the outrage against Halliburton and the other companies over there, but then again, it might not (If the Democrats investigate anything, I hope it's the Cost-Plus Program). The big changes will require a new president though. We should have around a two million person military again. It's hard to say what will happen though.
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
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Bravo! That's the key point the ideologues miss. We are already spending the money; the debate about national health care is simply shifting those expenditures directly to tax funding. Will taxes have to go up? Of course, but it will be offset by reductions in employer and individual out-of-pocket expenses. This will be a tremendous boon for business. It helps level the playing field both between small business and big business, and between American companies and foreign competitors. The big losers will be the health care bureaucracy and the profiteers.
That said, I don't see the Democrats pushing this in the near future. I don't think they have the political courage, not do they have the marketing savvy to sell it to Americans who have been brainwashed into shrieking in terror whenever the concept is mentioned.
- Aug 22, 2001
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Yet they won huge :light: For myself, I like what I am hearing from the dems about pragmatism. Dub and his, stay the course, hold to his personal convictions, strategy? doesn't work for me as an american citizen. Nor do I like it when politicians wear their religion on their sleeve. Pragmatism should prove a more logical and flexible approach IMO.
So, you intend to be the fly in the ointment the lefties have been up till now eh? How hypocritical is that? The neocons have characterized such vociferous criticism by saying things like "it hurts the war effort" "you are providing aid and comfort to the enemy" "you hate America" ECT. If you now mimic their position, then you have become what you loath
With a huge difference though, the dems didn't get us into this debaucle, so if they can't "put this fire out" they shouldn't be the whipping boy for the public, as the architects of this disaster should be the ones to have their feet held to the fire for incompetence and failing to properly incorporate the advice of those who didn't see it their way. Like Poppa Bush, who didn't go into Baghdad for the very reasons we are experiencing first hand today. Cheney even agreed with him at the time, so double shame on him for flip flopping on it. To do what? Make a bunch of bank? I hope that isn't true.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
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and, for that very reason, we have the world's best medical services and practitioners... People travel from all over the world to be treated in the U.S!! imagine that!
Socialized medicine is NOT an option.
As for the rest of their so-called "agenda," i will give the Dems until mid-Spring to prove that they have one.
they need to put up shut up.
Who cares what a sore loser like you would "rather have"? Live up to the FACTS, the very policies you support are forcing more and more people to vote against you. It's kind of like the line from Star Wars, "the tighter you squeeze your grip, the more systems slip through your fingers."
People like you and your constant fear mongering have run their course, it's time for a return to common sense. It's sad that your so far out in right feild that you can't/won't/don't realize that. We can't call ourselves a "civilized society" if were run by a bunch of blood thirsty predators.
Your worn-put ideas have run their course, it's time for some fresh leadership. No matter what, they can't do any worse then what we've had and they just might be infinetly better.
Do you really think that matters to people with no health care? They could invent a pill that gives you immortality and if you can't afford it, what goods is it to you?
You lost this election, take it like a man.
The repub's only agenda in these elections was "voting democrat is voting for the terrorists". The Dems big push was "time for a change" - both sides, it is how politics work. Don't give me this "they Dem's don't have any real ideas", the Democratic party, as well as the Republican party, have common ideals that they push - but with a Repub administration, there is only so much worth pushing right now....
profJohn - you are in for a long 2 years, at a minimum, if every crap link you find gets you going like this.
Your side lost, on an historic level - get over it, move on.
btw, if you look at socializing health care without in an objective way, if properly set up, it's a good thing.
profJohn - you are in for a long 2 years, at a minimum, if every crap link you find gets you going like this.
Your side lost, on an historic level - get over it, move on.
btw, if you look at socializing health care without in an objective way, if properly set up, it's a good thing.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
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umm, -I- didnt lose any election.. I am not a candidate, or even a republican... and, more than 6 out of 7 of the items and candidates I voted for, won... (with Allen's outcome still to come). Either way, 6 for 7 aint bad, eh?
That said, the rest of my last post is me "taking it like a man." I have repeatedly said that I'll give the Dems the benefit of the doubt and hope for the best. That said, they still need to prove to all of us that they really can "do it better" than the last bunch.
You're just so used to disagreeing with me, and insulting me, that you can't see that I AM being reasonable, supportive, and hopeful that the Dems succeed. Open your damn eyes.
- Aug 22, 2001
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Be good sense, common or not **a debatable point
** It is that practical, matter-of-fact, pragmatic approach, the dems state they will apply, and that encourages hope. I think it is brilliant to have no concrete plans, be dynamic, flexible, able to adapt, and willing to abandon plans that prove doomed to failure. That is the problem up till now, stick to the plan, No matter what!.
LOL, so you say.
Your hero had 6 years and you were still supporting him, but your so open minded as to give the dems, who only have a slight edge in the congress, 6 months. :laugh:
What exactly do you expect them to do in 6 months, especially considering that we still have the "chimp in cheif" in charge of policy?
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
So having no plan is better than being fixated on a so-so plan? ok.. we shall see.Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Be good sense, common or not **a debatable point
I think it is brilliant to have no concrete plans, be dynamic, flexible, able to adapt, and willing to abandon plans that prove doomed to failure. That is the problem up till now, stick to the plan, No matter what!.
sandorski
No Lifer
- Oct 10, 1999
- 70,213
- 5,794
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Originally posted by: palehorse74
So having no plan is better than being fixated on a so-so plan? ok.. we shall see.Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Be good sense, common or not **a debatable point
I think it is brilliant to have no concrete plans, be dynamic, flexible, able to adapt, and willing to abandon plans that prove doomed to failure. That is the problem up till now, stick to the plan, No matter what!.
they are indeed conservative, but unless they tow the line of the non conservative speaker thier stay will be short.
I do however think that even with pelosi in charge it may take a little more then 2 years for everyone to throw the bums out again. Not much more but some.
It is refreshing however, on a bright note ,that unlike when the Dems loose, I will not be subjected to a years worth of whining how the election was stolen.
Seems like Republicans are a little better sports about loosing power.
- Aug 22, 2001
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So-so plan? It is a bloody disaster to this point No concrete plan doesn't mean having no plan at all, silly. It entails developing a basic outline based upon all the investigating the dems have yet to do, as they haven't even taken power yet, then enacting it. Yet, being willing to alter it as much as neccesary, to adapt to the progression of events, instead of "staying the course" well past the point when the writting is on the wall that the plan/s suck.
No concrete plan doesn't mean having no plan at all, silly. It entails developing a basic outline based upon all the investigating the dems have yet to do, as they haven't even taken power yet, then enacting it. Yet, being willing to alter it as much as neccesary, to adapt to the progression of events, instead of "staying the course" well past the point when the writting is on the wall that the plan/s suck.Well, you can do as you like. Even though you won't admit it (probably not even to yourself), 6 months isn't even close to effect any measurable change, especiall considering they are not in cahrge of policy. Heck, all the righties gave Bush Sr. credit for the good economy we had under Clinton 8 years, but you give the Dem's 6 months? :roll:
I'm betting this attitude is goint to be represntitive of the new "bi-partisian" approach we are hearing about from GWB. Truth is, the way the political system works, the pendulum is swinging bakc to the left again. It would have started a while back if it wasn't for 9-11. GWB had a chance there (that most Presidents never have) to be a great leader. He bungled it, just like he did about everything else he did. His only ideas are tax cuts and war, yet the righties claim they are the party of ideas. ROFLMFAO!
You only have GWB to blame for changin the swing to the pendulum. At least one good thing will come out of his Presidency.
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Be good sense, common or not **a debatable point
I think it is brilliant to have no concrete plans, be dynamic, flexible, able to adapt, and willing to abandon plans that prove doomed to failure. That is the problem up till now, stick to the plan, No matter what!.
Od course it's a debatable point, that is what the elections were all about, and the GOP got "thumped".
- Aug 22, 2001
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I prefer "pimp slapped" After all, if they are going to hook for anyone, it should be the American people, and not lobbyists :gift:
Dude, seriously lay off the prognosticating. You suck at it. You thought the GOP would hold both houses. You were wrong. Instead of tax breaks for America's wealthy, instead of corporate welfare, instead of billions dumped into some lame-ass border fence that won't do anything, the lower and middle class will get a little love now. It's their turn.
exdeath
Lifer
- Jan 29, 2004
- 13,679
- 10
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We are also free to revolt from communist take over. And whose side will our military be on? Don't forget that jack ass. See when we tell the dems they can leave if they don't like it, it's because there are many 3rd world socialist or communist countries that already exist that you can choose from and there is no reason for you to change our country if thats the society you want to live in. The USA however is the only place conservatives and constitutionalists have, and we will make sure it stays that way regardless of who is in control of our government.
Keep it clean, keep it minimal, and don't remove power and responsibility from individuals and maybe things will be ok.
Start going socialist and communist and its over, mark my words.
Nationalize health care? Please, look how many hospitals are being shut down in southern Arizona from all the illegal mexicans coming across for hand outs, only to run back the other way temporarily to escape the law and responsibilities. I pay $50 a month for the best health care in my state, all privately run, provided through my employer. This is available to everyone at my work place. But we have some 300 employees that turned it down because they can get ACCCHS instead. As a result my premiums went to up to $62 due to having a smaller subscriber group, and government cost to support these programs just increased. Most of the people who turned it down are making $10/hr and are 2 income families. Tell me they can't afford $25 a pay check? They can, but thats $25 more they can spend on their beer, car stereos, and rims while we pick up the tab. Tell me I can get the same service I get now if that $62 becomes part of my federal withholding? BS.
If the dems can lay off gun control and start enforcing crime control instead...
If they can support non-amnesty immigration policies that allow legal proper immigration where immigrants are accountable for the same laws as citizens (how many times have I heard of rapes or assaults where the victim is told by police "sorry they are illegal we can't do anything but send them home")...
If they don't withdraw from Iraq as a silver bullet but instead fix the problems that have stalled progress to allow our original adjectives to be achieved so we can pull out in victory rather than defeat...
If I don't have to pay extra taxes so some illegal from Mexico can get free medical care so he has extra untaxed income to spend on gold rims and escalades while I have to save harder and longer for my own goals after finally getting somewhat financially independent after working my way up from the ridicule of the bottom...
Raising the minimum wage is stupid. What about people who are just starting to work their way up in life and getting ahead of the bottom crowd? How much will we keep raising it? Aside from the usual problems of inflation, increased outsourcing, laziness (look at Detroit) etc, caused by minimum wages, how would you feel if you came from a poor family, worked 2 jobs to put yourself through school and finally reaping the pay offs... only to find that now a high school dropout with 6 kids can get the same pay working part time at McDonalds? No you can't support a family with minimum wage, you aren't supposed to be able to. Don't have families when you are 16 with no education, simple as that.
Maybe instead of raising minimum wage we can work with minimum wage employers to subsidize child care and transportation (ie: company shuttles) by means of tax cut incentives to employers who provide these benefits to their low wage workers. This is an efficient means of lessening the load where it is needed. To those who have an honest NEED of the help an increased minimum wage would provide, child care and transportation (insurance, gas cost, etc) are the two primary expenses cited for minimum wage working parents, and this would help them, while properly alienating those who want the extra hard cash so they can continue living their irresponsible lifestyles. Yeah, I'm talking about the people complaining that they cant feed and cloth their kids because they are too busy keeping up with the Jone's while they pay off their credit card debt for the big screens and DVD players instead of paying for some classes and getting a pay raise. Best off all, this fits into the free market model of letting the private sector take care of itself, albeit with incentives... Besides a federal minimum wage is unconstitutional as it interferes with state commerce.
If they can address those things, just maybe, we can all get along. I'm not happy with the Bush administration abusing the results of the 2004 election and sitting on their arse either, but I'll be damned if this country ends up like Cuba or Kalifornia. Lets hope for all our sakes that the new democrats here are as conservative and central-to-right leaning as they appear to be and can keep their own extremists (ie: communists and power grabbers) on the left in check.
But we also need democrats like Truman and J.F.K. again who know when it's appropriate to make a stand and tell the rest of the world to fvck off.
And for what it's worth, as much as I claim to be a right wing conservative REAL republican, I can't stand religious bullsh1t on the right any more than I can stand communism in disguise on the left. Spare me the every cell is sacred garbage, life is cheap an abundant, ask any teenager on welfare who has 7 kids with no father and a big screen TV. They can pop another one out every 9 months, and viola, another tax break. I know someone in the pits I've described who tried to induce a pregnancy 2 months early so she could claim the kid on that years taxes. Is this the kind of thing liberal democrats like to see?
The only thing this country has and should EVER guarantee is equal OPERTUNITY, nothing more.
If you look at the numbers, you will see exactly why socialized medicine has been undertaken by nearly every industrialized nation on earth. It saves money. It saves A LOT of money.
People without health care do not get preventitive medicine. They don't get checkups when they should, they don't get the vaccines they should, and they don't get minor problems checked out until they become major ones. This is what takes an infection that could have been cured with $15 worth of penicillin, and turns it into a weeklong hospital stay that includes surgery and costs tens of thousands of dollars.
Our system is really... really badly designed. It is horribly, horribly broken.
But socialized medicine is evil communism right? It fails because the government is running it right? Lets compare ourselves to our friendly commie neighbors to the north:
Canada spends about 10% of its GNP on health care. We spend about 15% of our GNP on health care.
For the 50% more money we spend our infant mortality rate is 6.43 deaths per 1,000 and theirs is 4.88 per 1,000.
For the 50% more money we spend our life expectancy is 77.85 years, and theirs is 79.83 years.
Those are two of the most widely accepted statistics on the general health of a population.
Yeah, socialized medicine really sucks.
People without health care do not get preventitive medicine. They don't get checkups when they should, they don't get the vaccines they should, and they don't get minor problems checked out until they become major ones. This is what takes an infection that could have been cured with $15 worth of penicillin, and turns it into a weeklong hospital stay that includes surgery and costs tens of thousands of dollars.
Our system is really... really badly designed. It is horribly, horribly broken.
But socialized medicine is evil communism right? It fails because the government is running it right? Lets compare ourselves to our friendly commie neighbors to the north:
Canada spends about 10% of its GNP on health care. We spend about 15% of our GNP on health care.
For the 50% more money we spend our infant mortality rate is 6.43 deaths per 1,000 and theirs is 4.88 per 1,000.
For the 50% more money we spend our life expectancy is 77.85 years, and theirs is 79.83 years.
Those are two of the most widely accepted statistics on the general health of a population.
Yeah, socialized medicine really sucks.
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