First calls to move the country radically to the left

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: HBalzer

Originally posted by: eskimospy
I'm sorry HBalzer, you're simply wrong. Did you read the entire sentence that I wrote? Wait, I'll answer that for you. No.

I responded to a complaint about wait times by saying that they were irrelevant because while you have to wait longer in a socialized system, overall national health is improved. That's the whole point of what I wrote... and it is factually indisputable.

Secondly, you are speaking from a place of profound ignorance about my financial situation. I have never received a handout in my entire life... and chances are pretty good (by national averages) that I'm worth a good deal more then you are. Thanks for playing though!

If you truly believe that people today are poor because they are lazy, then you are simply ignorant. Take a few hours and learn about how the world works and you will see how completely, utterly wrong you are. It's not hard... the only hurdle you will have to overcome is your own preconcieved bias about how hard working and singularly capable you must be in order to be in your current situation.

Finally, learn a little about modern socialism. Every single western country is at least moderately socialist. If you are still using the marxist definition of socialism from the 1800's to describe modern governmental systems, you are again... ignorant. Trying to compare a modern western socialist state to communist Russia is one of the stupidest things that I've heard in quite some time. Sadly enough, that distinction is probably the only thing that made your post worth reading.

Read someone's entire post before you reply, read a few books before you decide to lay down a defining statement of global socioeconomics, and finally wait a few more posts before you decide that someone who DOES know what they are talking about is a shifless deadbeat. You will save yourself a lot of embarassment that way.

Please indulge me, why are people poor these days? Bad luck, lack of opportunity, the white man keeping them down, etc.

You don?t supply a lick of fact, just your opinion. I think you think all this up and perceive it as fact. For example, you claim:

?I responded to a complaint about wait times by saying that they were irrelevant because while you have to wait longer in a socialized system, overall national health is improved. That's the whole point of what I wrote... and it is factually indisputable.?

What support do you have for that? Why is it factually indisputable? I supplied first hand experience in the German national healthcare system with a supporting link. You simply decided to ignore it.

You assume your definition of socialism is the only one when in fact socialism is very broad. Some socialist ideas are closer to communism than others I admit. However, was likening socialism to communism in the sense of redistributing wealth as that was the topic we were discussing. I did not make that clear and apologize. Let me now clarify, redistribution of wealth did not work for Russia and in my opinion was the main downfall of Communist Russia.

As for me assuming you take handouts, I do apologize there is no reason for me to personally bash you for a disagreement in opinions. I thought with your apparent knowledge in regards to ?Handouts? you must have some experience in their success. Since you did not support your opinions I assumed it was first hand knowledge.

"Wealth Redistrubution" was not the problem. The problem was lack of incentive(ability to increase Wealth) to do more. It didn't matter if you swept sidewalks or became a Brain Surgeon, you essentially got the same(Brain Surgeons had a few more perks, but hardly enough to match the effort). Wealth Redistribution is an essential part of any Economic System.

 

[gpgofast]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
He walked into town with a knee tht needs repalced? Maybe since he has to walk everyplace his knee isn't going to last as long as normal?

I would think they would have an appeal process in the system and if you can show a reason for the need and have a doctor or two back you up with their medical opinions that you could bet one sooner. I just don't believe that something like that would be set in stone.

His ONLY recourse was to get the ear of his local representative who MIGHT take pity on him. It was a really sad deal. The man was a obviously a GREAT guy that was dealt a some bad luck in his life. He had NO other options within their system.

The trouble with the government being involved in anything is that the government is now involved. If anyone here really believes the statement, "We're from the government and we're here to help", I've got some FANTASTIC beach front property outside of Tonopah, Nevada for sale, cheap!!!...GP

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: gpgofast

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
He walked into town with a knee tht needs repalced? Maybe since he has to walk everyplace his knee isn't going to last as long as normal?

I would think they would have an appeal process in the system and if you can show a reason for the need and have a doctor or two back you up with their medical opinions that you could bet one sooner. I just don't believe that something like that would be set in stone.

His ONLY recourse was to get the ear of his local representative who MIGHT take pity on him. It was a really sad deal. The man was a obviously a GREAT guy that was dealt a some bad luck in his life. He had NO other options within their system.

Actually, I would think he has more options then people in the US with no insurance have, he can wait and appeal it (and I'm sure if he needs it, he will get it) or he can elect to pay for it out of his own pocket and then declare medical bankruptcy.... if he has too. Everbody in this world get's sick, but not everbody has insurance, even though they work.

The trouble with the government being involved in anything is that the government is now involved. If anyone here really believes the statement, "We're from the government and we're here to help", I've got some FANTASTIC beach front property outside of Tonopah, Nevada for sale, cheap!!!...GP

The exact same thing can be said about a private insurance company, do you think they give a crap about you any more then the goverment? They're in it to make money, nothing else. At least the goverment would have no profit motive.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: gpgofast

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
He walked into town with a knee tht needs repalced? Maybe since he has to walk everyplace his knee isn't going to last as long as normal?

I would think they would have an appeal process in the system and if you can show a reason for the need and have a doctor or two back you up with their medical opinions that you could bet one sooner. I just don't believe that something like that would be set in stone.

actually, he is lacking the one great option that those without insurance in the US have: the option to work harder and pay for some insurance that will immediately cover the knee surgery... or, worst case scenerio, work hard and save up for the entire operation. His system in NZ makes those two options impossible.

Heaven forbid that we have a system that encourages harder work and some sort of contribution...

The exact same thing can be said about a private insurance company, do you think they give a crap about you any more then the goverment? They're in it to make money, nothing else. At least the goverment would have no profit motive.

yes, the government never has their own interests in mind... ever.

duh

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: gpgofast

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
He walked into town with a knee tht needs repalced? Maybe since he has to walk everyplace his knee isn't going to last as long as normal?

I would think they would have an appeal process in the system and if you can show a reason for the need and have a doctor or two back you up with their medical opinions that you could bet one sooner. I just don't believe that something like that would be set in stone.

actually, he is lacking the one great option that those without insurance in the US have: the option to work harder and pay for some insurance that will immediately cover the knee surgery... or, worst case scenerio, work hard and save up for the entire operation. His system in NZ makes those two options impossible.

Heaven forbid that we have a system that encourages harder work and some sort of contribution...

As usual you ignore the working poor who have no insurance provided them and can't afford to purchase any and all the people who slip between the crasks in the current system.

The exact same thing can be said about a private insurance company, do you think they give a crap about you any more then the goverment? They're in it to make money, nothing else. At least the goverment would have no profit motive.

yes, the government never has their own interests in mind... ever.

duh

LOL, what is the goverments own interests? To screw the people over? They won't be in goverment very long then.

What is private industrys interests? To make as much money as they can and to hell with anyone they step on in that process. The adjusters that screw the most people get the biggest bonuses and the promotions, so they have an INCENTIVE to screw people over. Not so with the goverment, if anything it would be the oppsite.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
As usual you ignore the working poor who have no insurance provided them and can't afford to purchase any and all the people who slip between the crasks in the current system.

I simply refuse to buy into the falicy that those who are poor have no opportunity to overcome that obstacle. If you are born into poverty, then you are also born with the extra motivation to work 5x as hard in order to remove yourself from that situation.

While i do have empathy for those who are poor for reasons beyond their own control (handicapped, robbed, or otherwise made poor by other factors outside of their immediate control), that list is much shorter than the liberal view that all poor people are MY responsibility; the same liberal view places blame upon the shoulders of the successful for the failures of the poor and weak.

Economic darwinism if you will... and, ultimately, not my damn problem. My life and the lives of my family take precedence... always.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
As usual you ignore the working poor who have no insurance provided them and can't afford to purchase any and all the people who slip between the crasks in the current system.

I simply refuse to buy into the falicy that those who are poor have no opportunity to overcome that obstacle. If you are born into poverty, then you are also born with the extra motivation to work 5x as hard in order to remove yourself from that situation.

While i do have empathy for those who are poor for reasons beyond their own control (handicapped, robbed, or otherwise made poor by other factors outside of their immediate control), that list is much shorter than the liberal view that all poor people are MY responsibility; the same liberal view places blame upon the shoulders of the successful for the failures of the poor and weak.



Economic darwinism if you will... and, ultimately, not my damn problem. My life and the lives of my family take precedence... always.

You have empathy? Yeah, we can ALL see just how much too, LMAO!! Take off your rose colored glasses and come down out of your ivory tower and look around for a while. I see crap happening to people who don't deserve it all the time.