First Build

[Team Spicoli]

Hello Everyone, and thank you in advance for your guidance, and feedback. I will start out with some of the pre-requisite information mentioned in the Newbie Build thread:

- Use: Intense multi-tasking inclusive of torrent downloads, media-backups, streaming of stored media content, etc, however NO GAMING; Hoping to achieve streaming of True HiDef media content, uncompressed audio as well. Essentially watch, and hear the content as it was meant to be seen in the theaters.

- Price range: <$1k

- Country: Reside in the U.S.A, and most likely will either hunt around Ebay, and Newegg

- AMD fanboy

- The only current part that I may use if I decide to get rid of the Gateway (referenced below), would be the Rosewill RC-216 eSata card

- Searched the net, this site, and Cyberpower.com EXTENSIVELY!! Just when you think you've narrowed it down, then you read a few posts/reviews, and it's back to square one.

- Plan to overclock only slightly so that it can be air cooled.

- Timeframe: Here's the kicker, as I don't plan on building until possibly next Fall, possibly earlier, which should allow for prices of my tentatively selected components to come down

First I want to acknowledge that I am aware of the seemingly foolish notion that there is absolutely no future-proofed computer, and/or PC component. My hope with my first build is to extend the time-value line of my build as much as possible until technology gets to a point where I would be foolish not to upgrade, which I'm certain will happen one day.

Ok, so my goal is to stream stored media, download multiple torrents, and multi-task/browse the net from a network of two possible computers. The layout of the network in my head is to have a headless NAS box serving as the central hub from which I retrieve/add stored media to. This NAS box would then be connected to two seperate PC's.

One of the PC's will be a Gateway GM5088 Media Center PC (purchased this a couple of years ago).

The second PC will be my first build, and tentatively consists of the following components:

- Antec 900 case (already bought years ago for cooling capabilities)
- Coolermaster RealPro 1000w PSU (purchased years ago)
- 2 x WD Caviar Black 640gb HDD's in Raid 0 to house the O.S.
- Vista Home Premium 64bit
- Several WD Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB HDD's
- Sound: Auzentech X-Fi Hometheater HD
- Video: Either the nVidia GTX260, GTX280, or GTX295
- CPU: AMD9950 BE 125W
- MOBO: ASUS M3N-HT Deluxe (not sure whether to go mem-pipe or not)

That's it for now. I realize that I missing other parts such as keyboard, display, etc. I hope to purchase an LED HDTV when they become more the standard, for now any of the current displays I have at home won't do any of the above referenced components any justice, and I'm fine with that for now.

Despite much of what I've listed being geared more towards the Gamer, I really liked the HiDef features of the MOBO, and Videocard, as well as the option with respect to the MOBO, and videocard to do Hybrid SLI.

Ok, so chastise me as you well, I am fully prepared, and eagerlly await your feedback. Some things specifically I hope to learn from you are, in addition to your critique of the listed components above:

- What memory manufacturer would you use, and what type of memory? I believe the MOBO can handle up to 8gb of RAM, however I don't know for certain if it can fully utilize/recognize 8gb of 1066 RAM. Would it be better to use 4gb 800, 4gb 1066, or 8gb 800? I've been researching Newegg/Google adnauseaum for the most reliable RAM manufacturer, and it seems like a crapshoot.

- Is my notion of incorporating a headless NAS box ideal? If so, would the components of the NAS box have to be on par with those of the Antec 900, so that a possibly inferior NAS box would be feeding media content to an "overblown" antec system. I feel as if the network would only be as good as it's weakest link, which I know then begs the question, "well, what cables, receiver, HDTV are you using?" However, solely in terms of the PC element of this "media network", should I focus more on higher-end components for the NAS box, or spread everything out evenly across the entire network, or does it even matter?

"MalVeauX" wisely stated here at Anandtech that the key to HTPC was to (paraphrasing) build a system using essentially the bare minimum of components (within reason), to achieve the desired result. One character flaw of mine is that I tend to go over board with things in life, hence the Antec 900 cooling capabilities even though I don't game, and a 1000w PSU so as to give my build plenty of power And I'm sure a GTX295 for a non-gamer is absurd, I'm just looking at it as a SLI of the GTX260 which would give my HiDef content the best picture currently available.

That's all for now folks. Again, thank you in advance for your feedback/guidance.

Ciao

 

[krnmastersgt]

Within the top tier of video cards, the "better" image is a matter of opinion, and using and SLI-ed version of an enthusiast class card won't really improve your image quality for media playback much. That's one real waste I see in this build, the vastly overpowered video cards will just add power consumption and heat to an HTPC, not to mention noise. I'd suggest looking for a less power consuming/quieter video card for the build. I'd also comment on the PSU but you seem pretty intent on using one you already own, although the long term cost benefits of using a 430W rated at 80% or higher would probably save you a nice little bit.

Moving on to the motherboard, any reason why you chose that particular one? If it has certain features that you planned on utilizing then go for it, however if that's not the case you could save some more money by buying one not based on an nForce chipset, since that comes with a premium of its own.

Moving further along to the sound card, do you plan on using SPDIF for the sound feed for this system? If not, maybe you should try out the onboard sound of whatever motherboard you end up finally choosing since onboard these days is actually pretty decent. Most people can't discern an audible difference between onboard and a $150 sound card these days so unless you need an SPDIF port or the card has something special that an onboard wouldn't, don't put money into something that ultimately makes no difference to the media experience.

As for the ram, stick with the 800s and get 8gb if you truly wish, although you're gonna find it hard to ever reach 4~5 gb of usage at once unless you have some incredibly memory hungry apps. The difference between 800 and 1066 would be an ever so slight speed difference, but more importantly it affects your overclock in some cases, if the ram can't match the fsb speed that the cpu is working on, you have to either change the divider the memory works on (which some say affect speed/stability) or lower the fsb. But unless you intend to do some hardcore overclocking with a sky-high fsb, 800s should be just fine.

That's all I can comment on towards your build as of now, hope it helps.

 

[DSF]

Most of the horsepower of a card like a GTX260 or GTX 295 is not geared toward HD processing, it's geared toward 3D rendering. There are far less powerful (and therefore hot and noisy) cards capable of delivering crisp HD content at its highest quality. As krn said, they don't need anything close to 1000W. Barely 400W. For some of them, even less.

It's good that you acknowledge your flaw of wanting to overspec your system. Now take that knowledge and put it to use - save yourself a lot of money. Don't buy parts you won't need. Not just that you don't need them, but many of them (GTX 295, SLi 260, 1000W PSU) provide literally zero benefit over less expensive parts.

At any rate, it doesn't do much good at all to pick out specific parts right now. Too many things are going to change by next fall. Just to give you a concrete example, I built a gaming machine in Dec. of 08. Silly me, I started planning it in May as I was setting aside the money.

My original parts list looked something like this:
E6600 processor
ASUS P5B Motherboard
400GB Seagate HD
2GB RAM
Stock cooler, no overclocking
8800GTS 320MB
X-Fi XtremeGamer
Coolermaster Centurion 5
Corsair 520HX

My final list only 7 months later:
E4500 processor, overclocked
Gigabyte Mobo
500GB Samsung HD
4GB RAM
BTF90 cooler
8800GT
Integrated sound
Antec Solo
Corsair 520HX

Every part changed except one. Were my original parts bad choices? Not at all. They offered great value for the money in May. By December I could get much better value with a different group of parts. Your situation isn't likely to be any different.

Keep tabs on hardware over the coming months and start a new thread when you're actually ready to put the machine together.

 

[Team Spicoli]

Thank you for the feedback thus far, truly appreciated!!

The unfortunate thing about the 1000w PSU is that I purchased it already a couple of years ago ($150+), and I would hate to just throw that money out the window, unless there is simply a unanimous vote for me to cast it to the side, and start from scratch. At the time, the PSU was rated quite highly, albeit overkill for my needs I understand.

It's a shame too because I've recently became quite interested in the PC Power & Cooling, and Seasonic brands.

Any feedback about the NAS box?

Thanks again!

 

[krnmastersgt]

While it might feel like a waste throwing out that PSU you bought already, if you look at the costs to run your system for however many hours per year, the savings on your power bill over the course of 1-2 years might more than make up the difference already. Just something to consider while you stare at that 1000w monster.

An NAS box wouldn't need much actually aside from the essentials for a system to run. You will be in no way starved for data if you spent the money on the NAS box to be on par with your Antec 900 build or went with something much cheaper. I'm not really sure how much of a role/difference the strength of the CPU makes on an NAS box, but aside from maybe a decent CPU and a nice large array of fast & reliable hard drives, you can go for the cheapest items you find and just stuff them in some random case.

 

[Team Spicoli]

Thanks again.

With respect to the PSU, please help clarify something for me. Despite the fact that it is a 1000W PSU, if the total watts being used by the system adds up to around 500-650, would the PSU still be drawing down 1000W from the outlet, and therefore essentially wasting excess electricity?
Thanks

 

[krnmastersgt]

Not quite that much draw but it draws an excess that the system isn't using. If it's rated to be able to deliver a higher wattage, that would mean the wires/components would need to be able to handle higher amounts of current, so thicker wires, so more resistance, therefore more wasted power. The PSU is something you don't want to be overpowered on because over time they waste more energy than a low wattage PSU would use. Or at least that's how I understand it with my basic understanding of PSUs. Anyone care to clarify?

 

[Team Spicoli]

Thanks.

Anymore clarification. . . please?! Thanks. I'm really deliberating on this.

 

[imported_harlanpepper]

The general rule of thumb that I use to pick a power supply is to 1) pick one that gives me approximately double the watts that my system actually uses during normal use, and 2) is highly efficient. PSUs tend to operate most efficiently right around 40-60% of their rated power output. So if I'm drawing 250w while gaming, I probably want to look at a ~500w PSU. If I pick something bigger or smaller, I might be slightly out of the range of greatest efficiency. Here's an example efficiency graph for a 1000w PSU:

http://www.corsair.com/_images...hx1000w_efficiency.jpg

Edit: so I would look at some other similar systems to see if they REALLY require 500w-650w continuous - which is on the extreme end of the power requirement spectrum. Otherwise, you will be running your 1000w on the left side of the efficiency hump.

 

[yh125d]

Originally posted by: Team Spicoli
Thanks.

Anymore clarification. . . please?! Thanks. I'm really deliberating on this.

No, a 1000w doesn't pull 1000w from the socket at all times.

For example - You're gaming, your rig is at max utilization and consuming 400w. Take the 400w usage, divide by your PSU's efficiency at that load level (lets assume 80% efficiency) and you get 400w/80% eff = 500w being drawn from the wall

And for considering GTX cards or sli to get the best possible playback, you're just wasting money. A SLI GTX 260 system won't handle playback any better than something like a 4650. Also, you can't get those high end cards with HDMI output, which is very nice to have for a HTPC. For your video something like a 4550/4650 (one with HDMI out) would do you well without wasting cash.

Also, having several torrents downloading at once hardly taxes a system at all. I can have like 15 downloading at 500kb/s and only be using like 10% cpu.

 

[DSF]

The money wasted from excess power draw is a marginal consideration. Generally it's a couple bucks a month at most.

yh125d's explanation is more accurate than krn's. Larger wattage PSUs are not automatically less efficient than low wattage units.

 

[Team Spicoli]

Thanks again!
Sounds like the excess wattage not being used will be marginal, so I feel better.
Either way, lesson learned.
I will get a more appropriate PSU for the NAS box.
Keep the feedback coming. . . .
Take care

 

[krnmastersgt]

Anything else not really clear for you? I thought I answered all the questions posed in the original post.

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: Team Spicoli

- Video: Either the nVidia GTX260, GTX280, or GTX295



"MalVeauX" wisely stated here at Anandtech that the key to HTPC was to (paraphrasing) build a system using essentially the bare minimum of components (within reason), to achieve the desired result. One character flaw of mine is that I tend to go over board with things in life, hence the Antec 900 cooling capabilities even though I don't game, and a 1000w PSU so as to give my build plenty of power And I'm sure a GTX295 for a non-gamer is absurd, I'm just looking at it as a SLI of the GTX260 which would give my HiDef content the best picture currently available.

Any of that is extreme overkill, unless your gaming. It's not going to give you a better picture, than a decent HTPC card. Most people use a lower powered card that can get by with passive cooling. You want something less noisy.

- 2 x WD Caviar Black 640gb HDD's in Raid 0 to house the O.S.

Raid 0 won't provide much of a performance bonus, but will greatly increase your chance of having a problem. I don't consider it worth it.

 

[Team Spicoli]

Originally posted by: krnmastersgt
Anything else not really clear for you? I thought I answered all the questions posed in the original post.

Thank you very much for your feedback.

I'm hoping now for some more feedback about the NAS box, because I'm still trying to clarify whether the components for the NAS box should match those of the Antec 900, or can they be inferior without affecting speed, and image/sound quality.

Thanks again! Take care.

 

[krnmastersgt]

They can be inferior as you put it, all an NAS system really needs is to have lots of storage space and a stable connection to your network. Now if you meant that you wanted to also watch media from the NAS box directly, just get a board with a nice igp like a Geforce 7050 or something more powerful if you prefer, usually means same image quality with a different type of connection such as HDMI.

 

[Team Spicoli]

Originally posted by: krnmastersgt
They can be inferior as you put it, all an NAS system really needs is to have lots of storage space and a stable connection to your network. Now if you meant that you wanted to also watch media from the NAS box directly, just get a board with a nice igp like a Geforce 7050 or something more powerful if you prefer, usually means same image quality with a different type of connection such as HDMI.

Thanks. You've honed in on what I was getting at. Yes, I will plan on streaming media content from the NAS box, so I'm concerned about the affect on image/sound quality from a lower level graphics/sound card in the NAS box compared to the Antec 900 that is then connected to the HDTV, and stereo receiver.

My thinking is that the NAS box, and Antec 900 need to have equal parts to prevent any loss in quality along it's route to the final destination (tv/receiver). The TV, and receiver I've got covered, so I'm not too concerned about that, however if I access the NAS box using my Antec 900, and the Antec has higher quality components than the NAS box, will that "discrepancy" pose an affect on the quality?

The main reasoning behind my perplexity is because another member of this forum graciously put together a list of fairly inexpensive components for a NAS box that would total around $250. I may tweak a little bit to the list, however, in comparison to what I plan for the Antec, there is a significant difference in components (imo) to the NAS box.

I think I'm confusing everyone, I hope not.
Thanks again

 

[krnmastersgt]

Now I'm started to get confused as to what you mean. The NAS box is connected to 2 computers correct? And from the computers to the tv/monitor or whatever medium of display you chose, yes?
If yes: the NAS is purely a storage box, as long as the system is powered on with all it's hard drives, no problems with how "low end" they might seem to you, I could put another cheap build together if you want (I've made a few in the past few days). The NAS essentially is just a huge hard drive as far as you should be concerned in this scenario.

If no: If no, then the NAS is also connected to your display? If that's the case, the integrated graphics from a Geforce7/9 for Intel, or Geforce 8/740G for AMD will be just fine, they can output to what TVs would have being 1080p (1920x1200) just fine, they even usually have accelerators to help with this. The NAS will no be more of a huge hard drive that you can watch movies off of.

Integrated graphics like the ones I mentioned above, are superb for playback/surfing however are ridiculously crippled when it comes to games of the past few years. There will be no discrepancy between the hard ware, no matter how cutting edge your Antec 900 system is and how weak and feeble your NAS box will seem in comparison, all you need from the NAS box is a working system, a large array of hard drives, and a suitable connection between the 2 so data can move quickly back and forth. Hope that clears up your confusion.

Sidenote: While the video quality won't make a difference between the integrated I mentioned and a GTX280 or even 295, the audio is more of a per-person thing. Not sure how the onboard audio is on the boards I'm thinking of, however most modern onboards are pretty damn good. What I'd suggest is (assuming NAS is connected to your display directly, therefore IT will be playing the media you want) try the sound out with whatever onboard has to offer. If you're using a home theather-class sound system, and the board you chose doesn't have surround sound of 7.1 or whatever, just buy a decently cheap soundcard that supports it. Or, even if it does support it, if you're not satisfied with the audio quality, then upgrade.

 

[Team Spicoli]

Hey, thanks.
The NAS box will be connected to two computers (Gateway, Antec 900). I just want to know if the NAS box needs to have similar components to the Antec 900.

For example, I sit down at the Antec computer, and I access a movie that is stored on the NAS box. . . .the NAS box sends the media content out over the network to the Antec. . . . . .if the components of the NAS box are of a lesser quality than those of the Antec, will the media content lose any quality when it is transferred between the NAS, and the Antec because of the difference in the quality of the components.

If no, then I can build a fairly inexpensive NAS box, and invest more in the Antec.

Let's say for example that the NAS box were to have a videocard that wasn't fully capable of processing HiDef content, however the Antec 900 did. . . . . and we then revisit the scenario above where I'm retrieving a movie from the NAS box, and streaming it to the Antec 900, then out to the TV/Receiver. . . . .Would the Antec 900 take the content coming in from the NAS box, and "upgrade/upscale" the content to better quality? Or is the quality determined solely from it's native origin, i.e. the NAS box?

I don't know how else to clarify my question.
Thanks again

 

[Team Spicoli]

With respect to RAM, what are everyone's thoughts on OCZ?
Thanks

 

[krnmastersgt]

The only components that matter are the one DIRECTLY connected and outputting the video, which would be your Antec 900 and Gateway systems, only their video cards affect the quality, the NAS is just a storage place for it so don't worry about the NAS, just get a working system and plug a bunch of hard drives in. Invest more in the Antec.

I use OCZ ram, haven't had any problems with it. I assume you're asking because Newegg's cheapest 4gb set is OCZ?

 

[Team Spicoli]

Hello,
Actually I wasn't aware of the OCZ being he cheapest @ the Egg. While that is definitely a plus, I'm more concerned with quality, and reliability.
Thanks again.