First build: Request for comments

[tranefizzle]

Hi all,

I'm looking to do my first build, and I'd like some input. I'll be dual booting, using Win7 for some light gaming (Portal 2) and Linux for everything else (web browsing, programming, watching movies and such). I may experiment with running Windows in VirtualBox, but I'm guessing that won't work for gaming. I've done some reading, and arrived at the following specs:

MoBo : Asus M4A78LT-M LE
CPU : AMD Phenom II X2 555BE

OR

MoBo : MSI H61M-E33
CPU : Intel Core i3 2100

AND

PSU : Chieftec Nitro Series BPS-650C
Case : Fractal Design Core 1000
RAM : 4GB Kingston ValueR. DDR3 1333MHz
HDD : Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB
DVD-RW: Sony AD-7261S-OB

I plan to use the integrated GPU to get up and running, and buy a Radeon HD 5770 or something similar in a month or so. I'm on a student's budget, so my decisions are influenced by the fact that I'm spending my dinners and beer.

I was initially looking at the AMD, hoping that it will unlock into an quad core, but the i3 looks pretty good too. AnandTech's benchmarks suggest that the Intel outperforms the AMD in its stock condition, but an AMD Phenom II X4 955, which should be similar to an unlocked X2 555BE, has a slight edge on the i3, or is at least even. It's also cheaper. I'd love to hear some opinions on these two CPUs. I'm not planning to overclock, but I may give it a shot if it's not too much work.

The PSU is overkill, I know, but it's a good deal. There's also a 550W version, but the price is basically the same. I'm hoping that the large fan (140mm) means it's fairly quiet. The Cooltek Basic CTB 430W (similar to this one) is another option, if there's a good reason to go with a smaller PSU.

All of this, excluding the discrete GPU, adds up to about 3000 NOK or $550, which is as high as I want to go. This is in Norway, and I don't want to shop internationally due to taxes and shipping. I've already got a monitor, keyboard, pointing device and the OS. My monitor's native resolution is 1920x1080, but I don't mind playing games at a lower setting. I'm planning to build this ASAP.

Also, I have a couple of n00b questions:

1. The CPU, PSU and case each come with their own fan; I don't need any additional cooling, do I?
   
2. Is thermal paste usually included with the CPU, or do I need to buy that seperately?
   
3. Memory matching; does it extend beyond using memory modules of the same speed? That is, should I get a single 4GB card instead of two 2GB cards so that I can upgrade to 8GB by buying just another 4GB card?
   
4. It's OK to use an ATX PSU with a micro-ATX motherboard, right? I only ask because some online stores have a seperate micro-ATX category.

 

[fffblackmage]

The PSU is overkill, I know, but it's a good deal. There's also a 550W version, but the price is basically the same. I'm hoping that the large fan (140mm) means it's fairly quiet. The Cooltek Basic CTB 430W (similar to this one) is another option, if there's a good reason to go with a smaller PSU.

Make sure you've read reviews and know for sure that these PSUs are good. Otherwise, if you haven't done any research, Seasonic, Antec, Corsair, and XFX are good brands for PSUs, since they don't have any below average PSUs.

The CPU, PSU and case each come with their own fan; I don't need any additional cooling, do I?

The case you picked out comes with one fan for air intake and the PSU fan will serve as air exhaust. It might be a bit warm, but it should be enough.

Is thermal paste usually included with the CPU, or do I need to buy that seperately?

Retail CPU should come with a fan and heatsink with pre-applied TIM.

Memory matching; does it extend beyond using memory modules of the same speed? That is, should I get a single 4GB card instead of two 2GB cards so that I can upgrade to 8GB by buying just another 4GB card?

Since the mobos you picked out only have 2 ram slots, I would go with the single 4GB memory stick for future expandability.

When you decide to add another stick of memory, try to get something similar, in terms of timings, voltage, and clockspeed.

It's OK to use an ATX PSU with a micro-ATX motherboard, right? I only ask because some online stores have a seperate micro-ATX category.

That's fine.

 

[mikeymikec]

I think if you're thinking of going for AMD you should be going for an 800-series chipset if you can (one advantage I can think of is improved AHCI performance, as well as 6Gbps support).

I normally go for a case that has its own chassis fan, but then I usually go for standard ATX tower cases. The Coolermaster Elite 330/335 both have a nice chassis fan that runs more quietly than any fan I've encountered.

 

[tranefizzle]

Make sure you've read reviews and know for sure that these PSUs are good. Otherwise, if you haven't done any research, Seasonic, Antec, Corsair, and XFX are good brands for PSUs, since they don't have any below average PSUs.

I couldn't find a review of that particular unit, but the series was well received here and here. I've also read good things about recent Chieftec products on a couple of forums. It's made by Channel Well, if that makes a difference.

Other PSUs I considered include Antec VP450P, Antec BP430, Antec EA-380D, Fortron FSP300-60HPC, the Cooltek mentioned above and a few others. All of these are in the same price range, but the Chieftec is normally more expensive and seemed like the best option. For example, it has (I believe) the greatest efficiency of the bunch, is the only modular unit and uses Japanese capacitors.

Since the mobos you picked out only have 2 ram slots, I would go with the single 4GB memory stick for future expandability.

When you decide to add another stick of memory, try to get something similar, in terms of timings, voltage, and clockspeed.

Will do!

I think if you're thinking of going for AMD you should be going for an 800-series chipset if you can (one advantage I can think of is improved AHCI performance, as well as 6Gbps support).

I read here that I need a 710 or 750 SB in order to unlock the extra cores of the X2 555BE. This Gigabyte has an 880G / SB710 combo, but I'm guessing that's not going to help me much? There is no mention of 6Gb/s SATA nor AHCI on the product page; is there another reason the 800 series is better?

I normally go for a case that has its own chassis fan, but then I usually go for standard ATX tower cases. The Coolermaster Elite 330/335 both have a nice chassis fan that runs more quietly than any fan I've encountered.

The web site says

One fan included (1x 120mm in front)

There is also room for two additional fans, and the front panel is mesh and filter. I'd like to keep it small, and I really like the look and price of this case.

Any thoughts on AMD Phenom II X2 555BE vs Intel i3 2100?

Thanks!

 

[billyb0b]

that gigbyte mobo has very poor reviews and is over priced IMO....

you would do fine unlocking cores on your 555be with this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138283

 

[tranefizzle]

that gigbyte mobo has very poor reviews and is over priced IMO....

you would do fine unlocking cores on your 555be with this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138283

That Biostar is not available where I live, unfortunately. It seems to have the same specs as the Gigabyte, in which case I'm still not sure what the advantage is over the Asus I originally posted.

The CPU is the greater issue, though; has anyone tried both? The consensus seems to be that Sandy Bridge CPUs are worth the difference in price over their AMD counterparts, but I'm not sure if that applies to this lowest-end Sandy Bridge vs the X2 555BE with a good chance of making it an X3/X4. Which would be better for, say, gaming, compiling and web browsing with loads (50) of tabs open without making a lot of noise or feeling sluggish?

 

[mikeymikec]

AHCI is a standard feature these days, improved AHCI performance isn't going to be mentioned as a motherboard feature by the mobo maker. I don't know whether SATA 6Gbps support is on all 800-series boards, but it is on the one I use (ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3), and it's from the AMD controller, not a third party one.

Ah - just noticed from my board's manual, it mentions an SB850 chip, whereas the one you mentioned was the SB710, so I guess that's the reason why it doesn't mention/support SATA 6Gbps.

This is an article I kept a note of in case I wanted to refer back to it, it may provide further information about AMD chipset differences between generations:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/18539/1

 

[tranefizzle]

AHCI is a standard feature these days, improved AHCI performance isn't going to be mentioned as a motherboard feature by the mobo maker. I don't know whether SATA 6Gbps support is on all 800-series boards, but it is on the one I use (ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3), and it's from the AMD controller, not a third party one.

Ah - just noticed from my board's manual, it mentions an SB850 chip, whereas the one you mentioned was the SB710, so I guess that's the reason why it doesn't mention/support SATA 6Gbps.

This is an article I kept a note of in case I wanted to refer back to it, it may provide further information about AMD chipset differences between generations:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/18539/1

Hey, thanks! That's a nice website. As far as I can tell, there's not much of a difference between the Asus M4A78LT-M LE and Gigabyte GA-880GM-D2H, really. I guess I'll go for the Asus because of the lower price, if I wind up with an AMD. Now that's the question...

 

[mfenn]

The CPU is the greater issue, though; has anyone tried both? The consensus seems to be that Sandy Bridge CPUs are worth the difference in price over their AMD counterparts, but I'm not sure if that applies to this lowest-end Sandy Bridge vs the X2 555BE with a good chance of making it an X3/X4. Which would be better for, say, gaming, compiling and web browsing with loads (50) of tabs open without making a lot of noise or feeling sluggish?

You're going to want the i3 2100 then. The i3 2100 is 65W TDP whereas an unlocked X2 555 is going to be something like ~120W. Needless to say, it takes much less air movement to remove 65W than it does to remove 120W.

An unlocked 555 has about 12% more theoretical performance (all cores maxed) than the i3 2100. However, the i3 packs that aggregate performance into two cores, meaning its single threaded performance is much higher than the 555. If most of your browser tabs are just sitting idle, an unlocked 555 (1/2 the per core performance) isn't going to "feel" as fast as a i3 2100. You're only going to use the 12% extra performance when all 4 cores are really cranking (make -j4 or whatever).

Also, the standard disclaimer about unlocking not being guaranteed applies.

 

[tranefizzle]

You're going to want the i3 2100 then. The i3 2100 is 65W TDP whereas an unlocked X2 555 is going to be something like ~120W. Needless to say, it takes much less air movement to remove 65W than it does to remove 120W.

An unlocked 555 has about 12% more theoretical performance (all cores maxed) than the i3 2100. However, the i3 packs that aggregate performance into two cores, meaning its single threaded performance is much higher than the 555. If most of your browser tabs are just sitting idle, an unlocked 555 (1/2 the per core performance) isn't going to "feel" as fast as a i3 2100. You're only going to use the 12% extra performance when all 4 cores are really cranking (make -j4 or whatever).

Also, the standard disclaimer about unlocking not being guaranteed applies.

Thanks for your input! Come to think of it, I can get an X4 955BE for the same price as an i3... but your performance points still stand. The i3 also seems to be the better gamer (in tests), so I think I'll go for that one.

I'm considering this Asus motherboard instead of the MSI I originally posted, so as to get SATA-600 and USB 3.0. Does that seem like a good choice? It comes with a 3 year warranty, so I'm guessing the quality is pretty good. It requires an 8-pin rather than 4-pin ATX power connector; I take it this is the one listed as P4(4+4) on the PSU's spec sheet?

Also, I'm realizing that even if the GPU I buy is a power-hog, the Chieftec PSU is still ridiculously large; but it's by far the best deal where I'm shopping. Is there anything wrong with having an oversized PSU, apart from sub-optimal efficiency?

 

[mfenn]

Thanks for your input! Come to think of it, I can get an X4 955BE for the same price as an i3... but your performance points still stand. The i3 also seems to be the better gamer (in tests), so I think I'll go for that one.

I'm considering this Asus motherboard instead of the MSI I originally posted, so as to get SATA-600 and USB 3.0. Does that seem like a good choice? It comes with a 3 year warranty, so I'm guessing the quality is pretty good.

The performance are the same for H61 and H67, so it really depends on whether or not the extra money for USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s are worth it to you. In this case I can't say "get this one". Either mobo is a good choice, just depends on how much you want to spend.

It requires an 8-pin rather than 4-pin ATX power connector; I take it this is the one listed as P4(4+4) on the PSU's spec sheet?

Yes, that is correct. The connector splits in two to accommodate motherboards that require either the 4 or 8 pin.

Also, I'm realizing that even if the GPU I buy is a power-hog, the Chieftec PSU is still ridiculously large; but it's by far the best deal where I'm shopping. Is there anything wrong with having an oversized PSU, apart from sub-optimal efficiency?

The higher-end Chieftec Nitros appear to be CWT, as you say. CWT is pretty decent, so no there is really no downside beyond efficiency and cost (assuming an ideal market, which you obviously don't have).

 

[tranefizzle]

The performance are the same for H61 and H67, so it really depends on whether or not the extra money for USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s are worth it to you. In this case I can't say "get this one". Either mobo is a good choice, just depends on how much you want to spend.


Yes, that is correct. The connector splits in two to accommodate motherboards that require either the 4 or 8 pin.


The higher-end Chieftec Nitros appear to be CWT, as you say. CWT is pretty decent, so no there is really no downside beyond efficiency and cost (assuming an ideal market, which you obviously don't have).

Thanks again, I really appreciate it!

As luck would have it, my financial situation has improved somewhat, enabling me to upgrade the specs a bit and buy the GPU right away. My current build is as follows:

MoBo : Asus P8H67-M LE
CPU : Intel i5 2500
PSU : Chieftec Nitro Series BPS-650C
Case : Fractal Design Core 1000
RAM : 8GB Kingston 1333MHZ DDR3
HDD : Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB
DVD-RW : Sony AD-7261S-OB

GPU : Sapphire HD 6770 512MB GDDR5 ?

I chose the 2500 over the 2500K because the P67 board I found is a bit more expensive than I'd like it to be; however, I could go for the K version if overclocking is easy to do and a worthwhile effort without adding a third party fan.

As for the GPU, I get the impression that the 5770 / 6770 is the best GPU in its price class. I also looked at the Gainward GeForce GTS 450 512MB GDDR5 and the (slightly overclocked?) ZOTAC GeForce GTS 450, but it seems that the 5770 generally outperforms the GTS 450 in tests. Is the Sapphire 6770 a good choice, and does the system look sound overall?

 

[fffblackmage]

512MB of vram seems less than ideal if you want to game at 1080p or better. I would try to find a video card with 1GB of GDDR5 vram.

If you can find a P67/Z68 mobo within budget, I would try to get the "K" version. Even if you don't overclock it right away, you may want to do so down the road (I know I would).

Maybe you can post a link to the site(s) you'll be buying from? Maybe one of us can find something for you.

 

[tranefizzle]

512MB of vram seems less than ideal if you want to game at 1080p or better. I would try to find a video card with 1GB of GDDR5 vram.

If you can find a P67/Z68 mobo within budget, I would try to get the "K" version. Even if you don't overclock it right away, you may want to do so down the road (I know I would).

Maybe you can post a link to the site(s) you'll be buying from? Maybe one of us can find something for you.

I'm not sure why I posted the 512MB version; I can find a 1GB one for almost the same price. If I am to go for the 2500K I'll have to go for a cheaper GPU, though.

Do you think I would get better performance by getting a 2500K+P67 and a something like a 5670 or 6570 rather than a 2500+H67 and something like a 6770?

The sites I'm buying from are available in Norwegian only, but the model names and prices should be obvious enough:

komplett.no : I'll be buying some of the stuff here
netshop.no : I'll probably be shopping here if I go for the non-K 2500
amentio.no : I'll probably be shopping here if I go for the 2500K

I'm looking for something that costs up to 8-900 kr, less than that (6-700) if I am to go with the 2500K.

Thanks!

 

[mfenn]

Do you think I would get better performance by getting a 2500K+P67 and a something like a 5670 or 6570 rather than a 2500+H67 and something like a 6770?

Hell no. If it comes down to the choice above, the 2500 + x770 is no brainer.

 

[tranefizzle]

Hell no. If it comes down to the choice above, the 2500 + x770 is no brainer.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I've decided to bite the bullet and spend a bit more than I planned to. Unfortunately, I waited too long and the Chieftec PSU is back at its normal price. There are two possible replacements, the Fractal Design Integra 400W and the Corsair CX430. I know Corsair is better known on this forum, but the Fractal Design received a quite positive review, and with the CX430 being met with some disappointment, I'm leaning towards the Integra. Apparently, it's made by FSP. I take it 400W is plenty for my build? EDIT: The Sapphire website says "450 Watt Power Supply is required", so I take it the 500W version would be better. Or is Sapphire just leaving a lot of headroom?

I've received a lot of helpful input so far; if I could get an A-OK before I pull the trigger, that'd be great.

Final (?) build:

Mobo : Asus P8P67-M
CPU : Intel i5 2500K
Case : Fractal Design Core 1000
PSU : Fractal Design Integra 500W or Corsair CX V2 430W
GPU : Sapphire Radeon HD 6770 1GB GDDR5
RAM : 8GB Kingston ValueR. DDR3 1333MHz
HDD : Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB
DVD : LG DVDRW 22X SATA

 

[tranefizzle]

OK, so I ordered the CPU, motherboard and DVD drive. I'm happy with the rest of the build I posted above, but if someone could just confirm that I'm not doing anything stupid, that would be great.

Again, I have ordered:
Intel i5 2500K
Asus P8P67-M
LG DVDRW 22X SATA

I'm about to order:
Fractal Design Core 1000
Fractal Design Integra 500W (details, review---conclusion)
Sapphire Radeon HD 6770 1GB GDDR5
Kingston ValueR. DDR3 1333MHz 8GB, CL9
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB

Do I have the forum's approval?

 

[mfenn]

OK, so I ordered the CPU, motherboard and DVD drive. I'm happy with the rest of the build I posted above, but if someone could just confirm that I'm not doing anything stupid, that would be great.

Again, I have ordered:
Intel i5 2500K
Asus P8P67-M
LG DVDRW 22X SATA

I'm about to order:
Fractal Design Core 1000
Fractal Design Integra 500W (details, review---conclusion)
Sapphire Radeon HD 6770 1GB GDDR5
Kingston ValueR. DDR3 1333MHz 8GB, CL9
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB

Do I have the forum's approval?

Looks fine to me, though the 400W Integra or 430CX would be plenty powerful enough.

 

[tranefizzle]

Looks fine to me, though the 400W Integra or 430CX would be plenty powerful enough.

OK, thanks! I'll go for the 400W Integra then; apparently, it's a bit more quiet and has less ripple.