First build and would love some advice

[0dervish0]

Posted the same post as below as I didn't know it went to the next page haha.

 

[0dervish0]

What about this?

This review says it is faster than the top-of-the-line Radeon HD 6970.

 

[lehtv]

Is the N14 significantly louder?

Not at all

I know you already explained that its not needed but $15 isn't big money and if the temps on the cpu are lower I'm sure it will reduce longevity and make it possible to overclock to 5Ghz in the future.

Both will achieve low enough temps at 4.5 or so to not impact longevity in any practical sense of the word. Plus the idea of extended longevity isn't really compatible with a 5GHz overclock that needs 1.4-1.5V core voltage. And temps with D14 at 5ghz are probably easily higher than with with C12P at 4.5, due to that extra voltage. D14 is really worth paying for only to get super high OC's. C12P does what a cooler needs to do at low noise and temps for less $

Can the ASrock Extreme3 handle 5Ghz?

I would guess not, but not 100% sure.

Yeah I buy 99% of my stuff from ebay. Is it different with computer hardware?

Well, if you get a DOA item or it if dies within its warranty period, you can usually deal directly with the shop you bought it from. If you bought the item overseas via ebay, doing returns is obviously a bit problematic, and you have to manage RMA directly with the manufacturer instead of letting your place of purchase do that for you (ebay sellers aren't official retail partners of the manufacturer).

So this won't perform significantly better then the MSI 6950 to pay another $160 for?

http://www.koitech.com.au/products/g...b-overclocked/

No, 6970 is only about 10% faster. And the MSI 6950 should unlock into a 6970 with a BIOS flash. If it doesn't you can still easily OC it manually to about the same performance

Is there a noticeable difference to the stock motherboard sound card?

Yes, the difference is easily noticeable to me. But I don't consider the actual output quality a major advantage - the equalizer and Dolby headphone functions have a lot more impact on how things sound, I absolutely love being able to customize the sound profile of whatever I'm listening to (and my headphones need a bit of extra bass and lower midtones, to my ear). And Dolby Headphone just makes everything sound more natural, but some people complain it makes it sound like you're in an auditorium. I don't get that effect with my Sennheiser PC350

What about this?

This review says it is faster than the top-of-the-line Radeon HD 6970.

In that review, it's slower in some tests, faster in others, and the difference throughout is only one or two fps here or there. Nothing you should consider when making a purchase choice. The MSI 6950 will be quieter and cooler.

This is the updated component list

Looks great :thumbsup:. The only thing I should still mention is that 1/4 of the price, or $430, is just for the case and PSU. It's true though that the selection of PSUs at koitech isn't great and the case is a personal choice, and that both will last a long time. Still, I'd just save $100 on the case (Corsair 400R) and perhaps also $40 on the PSU (TX750 V2).

 

[0dervish0]

What do you think is the best Clock speed I should overclock to (estimate) to run with no problem for a long period of time? 4Ghz? I won't need to go to 4.5Ghz for a while. Will 4.5Ghz reduce the CPUs life drastically?

Is it worth spending another $40 to get a better latency for RAM? 8-8-8-24 compared to 9-9-9-24? Thinking about getting Corsair Vengeance purely for its looks, only $8 more.

And the MSI 6950 should unlock into a 6970 with a BIOS flash

What is BIOS flash? Just adjustments in the Bios?

Looks great . The only thing I should still mention is that 1/4 of the price, or $430, is just for the case and PSU.

Yeah I know and I want to reduce it but I am hooked on the 650D. I will probably have the case on my desk so it won't be wasted.

I would like to have modular but I'm not buying it for another 2 weeks so I will see how much money I have then and if I am short I might just get the TX750 and 500R case.

Sorry about all the annoying questions again haha but your always have the perfect answers.

 

[lehtv]

4GHz is actually a sort of sweet spot, as it can be easily achieved at stock voltages, and after that point you get increasing watts/mhz. Even the stock intel cooler handles a 4GHz OC, but may be a bit loud. 4.5GHz is another sweet spot for those who don't mind a small voltage increase and less optimal power consumption. 4.5 with a good cooler is safe in the long term because the needed increase in voltage is pretty mild.

What is BIOS flash? Just adjustments in the Bios?

The graphics card BIOS is essentially the firmware for the GPU, and it can be modded. A 6970 BIOS can be written into a 6950 2GB because they're structurally the same GPU, and have the same amount of VRAM. The 6950 is only lower clocked and has some of its shaders locked. It doesn't always work, and in such an event the card needs to be flashed back into its original BIOS. I've read many reports of it working for the MSI 6950 Twin Frozr II. See http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1622205 for instructions.

It's by no means essential, it will increase the 6950's performance by a small bit. Overclocking the GPU to 6970 clock frequency (800mhz to 880mhz) has more impact.

Sorry about all the annoying questions again haha but your always have the perfect answers.

Not annoying at all And you're welcome

 

[0dervish0]

The graphics card BIOS is essentially the firmware for the GPU, and it can be modded. A 6970 BIOS can be written into a 6950 2GB because they're structurally the same GPU, and have the same amount of VRAM. The 6950 is only lower clocked and has some of its shaders locked. It doesn't always work, and in such an event the card needs to be flashed back into its original BIOS. I've read many reports of it working for the MSI 6950 Twin Frozr II. See http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1622205 for instructions.

It's by no means essential, it will increase the 6950's performance by a small bit. Overclocking the GPU to 6970 clock frequency (800mhz to 880mhz) has more impact.

So when you change the 6950 to 6970 via unlocking the shaders does it increase the clock frequency too? Or is that different? Can you do both? I just need to read about how GPU's work to understand it more as I don't fully understand what shaders are. Been watching youtube videos and reading techPowerUp to figure it all out.

Will AMD catch onto this soon? or they don't mind?

Once again great help

 

[0dervish0]

Also a quick question. Is it worth getting the Twin Frozr III over the Twin Frozr II? Read that it runs at a higher clock speed (800Mhz to 850Mhz from memory) and better cooling but looked on ebay quickly and its about $60 more. Worth it?

 

[lehtv]

So when you change the 6950 to 6970 via unlocking the shaders does it increase the clock frequency too?

As far as I know the 6970 BIOS will have the unlocked shaders, the 880mhz clock, and possibly a change in voltage as well, not sure. So by flashing the card you also OC it. Though I suppose it'd be possible to edit the BIOS before flashing, so that it unlocks the shaders but keeps the clock at 800mhz, and then overclock it manually.

I just need to read about how GPU's work to understand it more as I don't fully understand what shaders are.

This should be a good overview http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shader

Will AMD catch onto this soon? or they don't mind?

The original reference models included a BIOS switch on the card just for convenience to users who like to mod their card by BIOS flashing. Almost every reference model was unlockable at first, but later ones were not, I think. Nothing stops the card manufacturers like MSI from providing unlockable non-reference versions, however

Is it worth getting the Twin Frozr III over the Twin Frozr II?

Twin Frozr III Power Edition is a fantastic card, perhaps a bit cooler than Twin Frozr II, and more tweakable and overclockable. It'll overclock well beyong 6970 stock speeds, you could expect something like 1GHz core clock. It should also unlock the shaders. Personally I think it's worth paying maybe ~10% extra over the TWII (cos it can be about that much faster when properly OC'd).

 

[mfenn]

Why not just pay another $15 for the N14 instead of the C12P and have the best cooling? Is the N14 significantly louder? I know you already explained that its not needed but $15 isn't big money and if the temps on the cpu are lower I'm sure it will reduce longevity and make it possible to overclock to 5Ghz in the future. Can the ASrock Extreme3 handle 5Ghz?

You mean D14? It's also enormous and a pain in the ass to work around.

Another thing to understand is that there is a significant luck factor in achieving a high overclock without insane voltage (less that 1.4V I think). A big system builder posted some stats where 95% of i5 2500K's will make it to 4.0GHz, 50% to 4.5GHz, but only 5% will make it to 5.0GHz. This is completely depending on the chip itself and independent of the cooling and motherboard that you have.

 

[lehtv]

Link?

 

[mfenn]

I know I should have bookmarked it. I'm having a hard time finding it now. Also, I have edited the post to include voltage.

 

[0dervish0]

You mean D14? It's also enormous and a pain in the ass to work around.

Another thing to understand is that there is a significant luck factor in achieving a high overclock without insane voltage (less that 1.4V I think). A big system builder posted some stats where 95% of i5 2500K's will make it to 4.0GHz, 50% to 4.5GHz, but only 5% will make it to 5.0GHz. This is completely depending on the chip itself and independent of the cooling and motherboard that you have.

Yeah sorry that's the one haha. Well I hope I'm that lucky 5% although I don't need 5Ghz and my mobo probably can't handle it. Also if I plan to get Corsair vengeance ram the D14 won't fit because of the tall heatsink on the ram and the C12 will.

 

[mfenn]

Or you could just get normal RAM that doesn't have tall heatspeaders.

 

[0dervish0]

Or you could just get normal RAM that doesn't have tall heatspeaders.

I was just stating another advantage of lehtv's recommendation to get the C12 but yes if I wanted to get the D14 or a lower HSF I could get G.Skill Ripjaw X RAM which is shorter.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

You can get a cheaper case if you want.

*cough* HAF 912 *cough*

 

[0dervish0]

You can get a cheaper case if you want.

*cough* HAF 912 *cough*

Yeah I was looking at the HAF line originally and for the price they have a lot of great features but prefer the minimlist look of the corsair line. In my opinion Corsair cases look less show off but they have a higher price.

 

[0dervish0]

Lehtv how do I overclock with the MSI 6950 2GB if it doesn't have dual bios switch? Do I just hope it works and if not have to get another graphics card from somewhere? The motherboard has a Clear CMOS Switch, will that reset the bios?

Considering getting the Extreme4 which will allow me to use the cases USB 3.0 (internal USB3 headers), two more SATA3 connects (for future drives) and one more PCI-E 2.0. Is it worth paying another AUD$45? Seems like everyone gets the extreme4 instead of the 3.

Why does everyone pick the Crucial M4 over the Corsair Force GT when the Force GT has the new sandforce processor, giving it better transfer rates? I know its less reliable but won't they release new firmware soon to fix the issues?

 

[0dervish0]

Could I just pull out the discrete graphics card and use the intel integrated graphics and then change the settings on the discrete card?

 

[lehtv]

Lehtv how do I overclock with the MSI 6950 2GB if it doesn't have dual bios switch? Do I just hope it works and if not have to get another graphics card from somewhere? The motherboard has a Clear CMOS Switch, will that reset the bios?

Overclocking is done via the MSI Afterburner utility, not via changing the BIOS. You only need to flash the BIOS if you want to try unlocking the extra shaders. If it fails, your CPU has an integrated graphics processor to fall back on while you flash the BIOS back to default (the Extreme3 Gen3 has DVI, HDMI and VGA outputs).

Another option is to try and find a dual-BIOS Sapphire 6950 Dirt3 Edition. I think that one has the 6970 BIOS preloaded in the switch. Didn't recommend it earlier as it isn't sold in msy or koitech.

Considering getting the Extreme4 which will allow me to use the cases USB 3.0 (internal USB3 headers), two more SATA3 connects (for future drives) and one more PCI-E 2.0. Is it worth paying another AUD$45? Seems like everyone gets the extreme4 instead of the 3.

I don't think it's worth it. You'll only ever need SATA 6gb/s for SSDs. USB3.0 devices can be plugged in the back or you can use USB2.0 on the front if you're not moving a lot of data. And Extreme3 already has x8/x8 pci-e capability. Extreme4 only adds another x4 lane which is only needed if you have a dual-GPU setup and a device that won't run in an x1 slot. Most audio cards for example can run in an x1 slot, some run in a regular PCI slot.

Could I just pull out the discrete graphics card and use the intel integrated graphics and then change the settings on the discrete card?

No need to pull it out, just plug the cable to the motherboard instead of the GPU

 

[0dervish0]

Another option is to try and find a dual-BIOS Sapphire 6950 Dirt3 Edition. I think that one has the 6970 BIOS preloaded in the switch. Didn't recommend it earlier as it isn't sold in msy or koitech.

Which one performs better? The MSI or Sapphire? How do I know its the dual bios version? Thanks for the advice

 

[lehtv]

If it says Dirt3 Edition it is dual-bios. This one: http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1&gid=3&sgid=1041&pid=1235&psn=&lid=1&leg=0

They're both 6950's so in principle they both perform the same. MSI has a better cooler, Sapphire Dirt3 ed. has the dual bios switch.

 

[0dervish0]

Change of plans haha. The X79 series motherboards are about to be released (November) and the new Ivy bridge CPU's too. So I'm just going to Wait. They look amazing!

To get you excited check this Dual Xeon Sandy Bridge-E and 12 RAM slot X79 chipset Motherboard!! One xeon CPU has 10 cores and 20 threads haha so double that. Might just get that then. The motherboard only costs $700.

 

[0dervish0]

Ivy Bridge(22nm 3D trigate transistors) won't be released till March 2012 I think but they have started producing them . Although the X79 motherboards will be released soon and be compatible with the Ivy bridge.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

um.. not to be mean, but we are every much up to date on the latest hardware specs and rumors.. xD

 

[0dervish0]

um.. not to be mean, but we are every much up to date on the latest hardware specs and rumors.. xD

Good for you bud

P.S. If you are so informed why didn't you just comment before saying to wait a few weeks for a new mobo to come out?