Fire chief shot by cop in Ark. court over tickets

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
An example of using traffic law enforcement as an income source gone way wrong.

""When I first moved out here, they wrote me a ticket for going 58 mph in my driveway," 75-year-old retiree Albert Beebe said."

That quote doesn't say much. If you have a mile long driveway it sounds feasible. What about my 20 ft driveway?

What Jurisdiction would the Police have on her private driveway?

So in context the quote is right on!!

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: Perknose
Thanks, OP, what an insane story! It's hard to believe an organized police racket like that can go on for years anywhere in the USA in the 21st Century.

Yikes! :shocked:

QFT. Seven "police" for a town of 174? That's a street gang operating with the pretense of legitimacy.

That prosecutor must be a piece of cake also, considering charges against the shooting victim and ruling out any against the shooter. Maybe the feds can get involved (as a civil rights violation).

One thing is for certain-that town is going to be financially busted, as is the "officers" involved in the shooting. Hopefully the town has some insurance.

 

[imported_inspire]

7 officers in the courtroom vs. one unarmed fire cheif and they shot him? WTF? Maked me think of No Country For Old Men...

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
An example of using traffic law enforcement as an income source gone way wrong.

""When I first moved out here, they wrote me a ticket for going 58 mph in my driveway," 75-year-old retiree Albert Beebe said."

That quote doesn't say much. If you have a mile long driveway it sounds feasible. What about my 20 ft driveway?

What Jurisdiction would the Police have on her private driveway?

So in context the quote is right on!!

Well it depends what you're doing right? I mean I don't think people will be too happy if I'm doing donuts in my front yard in a typical suburban house and messing everything up. I don't think people care if I have a 6 acre lot and my house sits half a mile in what I'm doing on my front yard. I think if I'm driving my car around my front yard around a tree and driving over the grass, flowers, knocking down bushes on MY OWN PROPERTY and kept doing that for a bit, I'm sure a cop could do something about that. You can't just do ANYTHING once it's in plain sight (front yard). It might be different on a larger yard.

I'm just saying the quote doesn't offer much information:

You could argue:

A) WTF are you doing at 58mph? Are driving out of your driveway at 58mph onto a 25mph road? Maybe the guy was speeding down his 1/2 mile long driveway that leads to a local road. Perhaps he's barreling at 58mph onto a busy intersection.

B) WTF is the police doing on a driveway?

We don't know anything, so I'm just saying this quote along doesn't really offer much information. It could go many ways. It's just like if the only information you had about the Gates case was Gates yelling something like "You're arresting me on my own property"

Obviously the case was more complicated than that one quote. But based on that one quote you will obviously only look at one side of the argument which is "Why are the police arresting someone on their own property?" Unless you heard the rest of the story about asking for ID, suspicious activity, etc, then you wouldn't realize it could swing both ways.

The same goes on here.

Police often camped out in the department's two cruisers along the highway that runs through town, waiting for drivers who failed to slow down when they reached the 45 mph zone ringing Jericho. Residents say the ticketing got out of hand.

See this quote makes a lot more sense. While it's legal, it's clearly one of those evil traps and overly anal over policing going on and just a clear attempt at revenue making.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
so he is going to sue. good man.

Yup, he wants a percentage on future ticket actions.

hahah

by the sound so of it they ticket enough to make good money. even though the city has had a police car repoed, and can't pay any other bills. makes youwonder where all the money is going.


get a few people with unlimited (well for the area) power and nothing to keep them in check it will go out of control.

The same scam is going on in drug enforcement and the confiscation of property to be sold at public auction.

i agree actually. i was amazed at some of the stories i have read about drug enforcement confiscation on "drugs". they then put eveyrthing up on auctions.

Wich the police department gets to keep the money (or cars if they want).

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dquan97
Topic Title: Fire chief shot by cop in Ark. court over tickets

Everyone should be shot on a regular basis

 

[monovillage]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: dquan97
Topic Title: Fire chief shot by cop in Ark. court over tickets

Everyone should be shot on a regular basis

Only those that deserve it, and in this case the man didn't deserve it.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
so he is going to sue. good man.

Yup, he wants a percentage on future ticket actions.

hahah

by the sound so of it they ticket enough to make good money. even though the city has had a police car repoed, and can't pay any other bills. makes youwonder where all the money is going.


get a few people with unlimited (well for the area) power and nothing to keep them in check it will go out of control.

The same scam is going on in drug enforcement and the confiscation of property to be sold at public auction.

i agree actually. i was amazed at some of the stories i have read about drug enforcement confiscation on "drugs". they then put eveyrthing up on auctions.

Wich the police department gets to keep the money (or cars if they want).

Yea I think it was Texas that had to change its state law as some small towns were using some drug rule to allow them to take peoples cars even if they did not have drugs and sell them.

 

[StageLeft]

7 cops for 174 residents HAHAHAAH

Off the top of my head I am guessing the national average of cops to residents is probably less than 1 to 174.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Marlin1975

Originally posted by: waggy

i agree actually. i was amazed at some of the stories i have read about drug enforcement confiscation on "drugs". they then put eveyrthing up on auctions.

Wich the police department gets to keep the money (or cars if they want).

Yea I think it was Texas that had to change its state law as some small towns were using some drug rule to allow them to take peoples cars even if they did not have drugs and sell them.

What most people don't know is that if property is seized under most state civil forfeiture laws, the burden of proof is on the individual, NOT the state. In other words, even if the individual is acquitted of all criminal wrongdoing - and even if the individual is NEVER accused of a crime - the individual must PROVE in court that the seized property was not used in - or obtained with the profits of a - criminal enterprise. And, naturally, when the individual contests the forfeiture, the person loses even if he/she wins, as the cost of contesting the forfeiture is the responsibility of the individual.

Naturally, these laws make civil forfeiture extremely tempting, and abuses of course occur. Some police departments - especially those in rural areas - make it a practice to seize "suspcious" property during routine traffic stops. For example, if the individual is carrying an amount of cash or other valuables deemed by the jurisdiction be the "excessive", that is considered prima facie evidence of drug dealing, and the money/possessions can be seized. The burden of proof then falls on the individual to prove with a preponderance of evidence that the money/possessions were NOT related to drug dealing. Tenaha, Texas (population 1000) is infamous for its practices:

Yes, this happens in America

Tenaha has the dubious distinction of allegedly utilizing a state forfeiture regulation to seize property from unsuspecting motorists to raise revenue for the local police. A recent Houston Chronicle article detailed the allegations that led Texas State Senator John Whitmire to declare, "The idea that people lose their property but are never charged [with a criminal offense] and never get it back, that's theft as far as I'm concerned." Law enforcement authorities in Tenaha seized property from at least 150 motorists between 2006 and 2008, totaling more than $3 million USD. In most of the cases where the seizures were improper, the victims were African-American or Latino.

The allegations are that the town has used its proceeds to build a new police station, reward high revenue generating officers personally, and buy a second police car.

Linda Dorman, an Akron, Ohio, great-grandmother had $4,000 in cash taken from her by local authorities when she was stopped while driving through town after visiting Houston in April 2007. Court records make no mention that anything illegal was found in her van. She's still hoping for the return of what she calls her life savings. In another instance, a man was taken to the local prison and directed to surrender thousands of dollars in cash and jewelry, then released without charges.

The town's District Attorney, Linda Russell, has been accused of corruption after making commission payments to one of the arresting officers and local clubs, when Texas law explicitly states that forfeited money can only be used "for official purposes".

In July 2008, 10 plaintiffs filed suit in federal court against Tenaha and Shelby county officials, alleging that police officers had stopped them without cause and unjustly seized their property. The plaintiffs allege that officers threatened them with criminal prosecution if they did not cooperate. Officials named in the suit included Tenaha mayor George Bowers, deputy city marshal Barry Washington, and Shelby County district attorney Lynda Kay Russell.

In March 2009 the plaintiff's attorney Timothy Garrigan announced that he would seek class-action status for the lawsuit, citing a large number of similar reports from other alleged victims.

The police said that they will return at least one man's seized possessions, valued at around $8,500.

And Tenaho isn't the only place where this occurs:

More of the "war on drugs"

Rudy Ramirez never expected to become a statistic in the War on Drugs when he set off to buy a used car, $7300 in cash at the ready, in January 2000. Ramirez, who lives in Edinburg, Texas near the border with Mexico, had spotted a listing for the used Corvette in a magazine and wanted it badly enough that he talked his brother-in-law into accompanying him on a thousand mile road trip to Missouri to make the purchase. When Ramirez was pulled over by police in Kansas City, however, the tenor of the trip changed.

"They asked if I had any money with me, and I said yes," recalls Ramirez. "I didn't think they would take it away. I had nothing to hide." But the trajectory of the rental car, and the piles of cash, suggested otherwise to police--who suspected him of trafficking drugs from the Mexican border. As Ramirez tells it, he was detained at the side of the road for hours while his car was thoroughly searched and inspected by a drug dog. "They kept asking me, `Where are the drugs?'" he recalls. "I told them they had the wrong guy."

The Drug Enforcement Agency's file on the case indicates that Ramirez gave officers confused statements about both the money and his destination, and that his extremely brief stay in a Missouri motel looked suspicious. What's more, the drug dog "alerted" on parts of the car, indicating that drugs could have been there at one time--which, since it was a rental car, may or may not have anything to do with Rudy Ramirez.

Still, the search turned up no drugs of any kind, and the officers finally told Ramirez that he was free to go--but not before confiscating $6,000 of his money in the name of the federal war on drugs in a process known as "forfeiture." Despite check stubs that he says prove that the money came from a car accident settlement reached several months before, and bank records showing that it was withdrawn from his account just prior to the Missouri trip, Ramirez has, to this day, been unable to get his money returned. He shakes his head as he describes it. "All I want is my money back," he says.
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According to a report prepared for the Senate Judiciary Committee, at least 90 percent of the property that the federal government seeks to forfeit is pursued through civil asset forfeiture. And although forfeiture is intended as punishment for illegal activity, over 80% of the people whose property is seized under civil law are never even charged with a crime according to one study of over 500 federal cases by the Pittsburgh Press. For this reason, critics say, the system can run roughshod over the rights of innocent property owners--and fail to distinguish them from the guilty.

The good news is that civil forfeitures by the federal government are now governed by an amended law that shifts the burden of proof back onto the government. Unfortunately, state forfeiture laws aren't controlled by federal statute.

 

[waggy]

Shira yeap. i have read those and worse.

Think it was Florida where they were takeing people's houses. One story had a old lady (her husband died) fell in the house and hurt herself. she called 911 and the cops/ambulance came. they claimed to find some ilegal drugs sitting on the table (think they found the husbands prescription drugs or something but no illegal drugs) so they took the house. since the cars were in the garage they took those. etc

yes they took a old ladies house from her on BS reasons. they then sold it (while the lady was sueing the state) and took the money. The old lady won her lawsuit but at that point the house was sold for a very low amount.

before i read the story i was all for takeing drug dealers property. then i kinda dug into it. its rather amazing.

 

[marvdmartian]

Sounds like Mayberry, only without Sheriff Andy, and Deputy Barney Fife x7!!! :shocked:

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Sawyer
It is AR, not ARK. And yes this is the backwoods of AR. It is simply amazing how drastic people change from town to town here. IN my small town, even the people on the outside areas within 20 miles are drastically different

It's barely 15 miles outside of Memphis straight down I-55...

 

[dualsmp]

This story makes Boss Hogg shake his head in disbelief.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Sawyer
It is AR, not ARK. And yes this is the backwoods of AR. It is simply amazing how drastic people change from town to town here. IN my small town, even the people on the outside areas within 20 miles are drastically different

It's barely 15 miles outside of Memphis straight down I-55...

It's Tennessee and Arkansas for crying out loud.

Combined their IQ's don't reach the level of a fifth grader.