FINALLY THEY REALIZE....piracy not to blame for decline in moviegoers

Merlyn3D

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Sep 15, 2001
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NYTimes

LOS ANGELES, Aug. 23 - With the last of the summer blockbusters fading from the multiplex, Hollywood's box office slump has hardened into a reality that is setting the movie industry on edge. The drop in ticket sales from last summer to this summer, the most important moviegoing season, is projected to be 9 percent by Labor Day, and the drop in attendance is expected to be even deeper, 11.5 percent, according to Exhibitor Relations, which tracks the box office.
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Nicole Kidman in "Bewitched," a box office flop this summer.
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Multiples theories for the decline abound: a failure of studio marketing, the rising price of gas, the lure of alternate entertainment, even the prevalence of commercials and pesky cellphones inside once-sacrosanct theaters. But many movie executives and industry experts are beginning to conclude that something more fundamental is at work: Too many Hollywood movies these days, they say, just are not good enough.

"Part of this is the fact that the movies may not have lived up to the expectations of the audience, not just in this year, but in years prior," said Michael Lynton, chairman of Sony Pictures Entertainment, which had some flops this summer, including the science fiction action movie "Stealth" and the romantic comedy "Bewitched." "Audiences have gotten smart to the marketing, and they can smell the good ones from the bad ones at a distance."

Even Robert Shaye, the studio leader behind "The Wedding Crashers," one of the summer's runaway hits, shares the worry about the industry's ability to connect with audiences. "I believe it's a cumulative thing, a seismic evolution of people's habits," said Mr. Shaye, chairman of New Line Cinema.

In previous years, he said, "you could still count on enough people to come whether you failed at entertaining them or not, out of habit, or boredom, or a desire to get out of the house. You had a little bit of backstop."

With competition from video games, hundreds of television channels and DVD's, that's no longer the case, he said. The problem, these studio leaders and other industry experts seemed to say, was not only that a steady diet of formulaic plots, too-familiar special-effects vehicles and remakes of television shows has, over time, left the average moviegoer hungry for better entertainment.

Marc Shmuger, vice chairman of Universal, said Hollywood has been too focused on short-term box office payoff and not focused enough on what he called "the most elemental factor of all" - the satisfaction of the moviegoing experience.

"It wasn't like the last crop of summer movies were that much better than this summer," said Mr. Shmuger, whose studio's recent releases included the success "The 40-Year-Old Virgin" and several disappointments, including "Cinderella Man," "The Perfect Man" and "Kicking and Screaming." "This summer has been as deadening as it has been exciting, and there's a cumulative wearing down effect. We're beginning to witness the results of that. People are just beginning to wake up that what used to pass as summer excitement isn't that exciting, or that entertaining. This is vividly clear in terms of the other choices that consumers have."

The blockbuster hits of last summer, including "Spider-Man 2," "Shrek 2" and "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban," performed more or less on the same level as this year's hits, including "Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith," "Batman Begins" and "War of the Worlds." But too many big-budget movies, including "The Island" and "Stealth," flopped entirely, while other films, from "Bad News Bears" to "Herbie: Fully Loaded" to "The Great Raid," were disappointing.

The box office numbers have led to intense, broad-ranging conversations across Hollywood about the implications. Many studios have commissioned market research to investigate the causes of moviegoing behavior - or the lack thereof. At New Line, executives have been talking about the "sameness of everything" on movie schedules, one executive said. At 20th Century Fox this week, a half-dozen top executives held an impromptu brainstorming session at the commissary with a reporter, debating the effects of gas prices and marketing missteps.

Tom Rothman, co-chairman of 20th Century Fox, was one of the few to see no negative trend in the current numbers. "Everybody keeps saying it's the worst of times; it seems fine to me," said Mr. Rothman, whose studio has had some big-budget successes this summer, with "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" and "The Fantastic Four." He noted, for example, that the advent of DVD's has expanded the overall revenues of the movie industry. "For us the business is healthy, but it requires management," Mr. Rothman said.

Just about everywhere else, though, the concern is palpable - and understandable, not only because of the performance of this summer's movies, but also because a decline is discernible over time: overall movie attendance, a figure not affected by inflation, has slid to below where it stood in mid-August 2001. DVD sales, while still robust, are no longer rising exponentially, and some analysts say that a poor box office performance this summer will lead to poor DVD sales this winter.

With billions of dollars at stake, nerves are growing understandably frayed. Last week, John Fithian, the president of the National Association of Theatre Owners, accused Robert A. Iger , the incoming chief executive of Walt Disney, of leveling a "death threat" at theater owners for having suggested that the lesson to be drawn from the slump is that moviegoers want films to be accessible in theaters and on DVD simultaneously.

"The structure of the industry is sound," said Mr. Fithian, who believes in maintaining a distance between the theatrical release and the DVD. "We just need a few more good movies."

Mr. Iger had observed that studios ignored consumers at their peril. "We can't allow tradition to stand in the way of where the consumer can go, or wants to go," he told analysts this month, warning that "the music industry learned this the hard way."

Mr. Iger's conclusion - that consumers want the choice of seeing movies in their homes at the same time as in the theater - is being reached by others in the industry as well. But it remains contentious, resisted not only by the owners of theater chains. Mr. Lynton of Sony was adamant that the theatrical experience should be protected, while Mr. Shaye said he was still "on the fence" on the subject.

Warren Lieberfarb, a former Warner Brothers executive who was a main advocate of the DVD in the early 90's, warned that going to the movies had become too expensive over all, given the excellent quality of home theater. "It's not just the DVD. It's not just the DVD window," he said. "It's the flat-panel television and the sound system, with the DVD option, that has radically changed the quality of the in-home experience. The home theater has arrived." As a result, he said, "you have to change the business model of the movie business."

With the task so large, and so very complex, Hollywood is still grappling with how to broach solutions.

Mr. Lynton said he would focus on making "only movies we hope will be really good." At Fox, executives said they are looking to limit marketing costs. At Universal, Mr. Shmuger said he intends to reassert "time and care and passion" in movie production. Some of his own summer movies, he conceded, should never have been made.

He declined to name them.

CLIFFS: Hollywood movies have started to really suck, and people don't wanna see commercials when they pay almost $10 for a movie!
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
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Originally posted by: Merlyn3D


CLIFFS: Hollywood movies have started to really suck, and people don't wanna see commercials when they pay almost $10 for a movie!

i just dont wanna pay 10$ for a movie comercials or no
 

Legendary

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Jan 22, 2002
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Kudos to them for not mentioning the word piracy ONCE in the article. This summer's movies have sucked - last summer I saw 8-10 movies, this summer I've only seen 2. Just no good reason to get out there anymore.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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I've started going to movies only if it's at the local drive-in. Home theatre > *
 

Merlyn3D

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Sep 15, 2001
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Originally posted by: yllus
I've started going to movies only if it's at the local drive-in. Home theatre > *


I think drive-in's gonna make a comeback, just wait. Still the spot to go if you got a date and wanna test out your car's suspension.
 

KentState

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Oct 19, 2001
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The mentioned "Stealth" a couple times as a flop. From the very first trailer, I knew that the movie was going to be horrible. I remember whispering to my wife that it would be an instant flop. If I can smell that one from a mile away, why can't the hollywood execs that fitler through thousands of ideas each year?
 

sixone

Lifer
May 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Merlyn3D

CLIFFS: Hollywood movies have started to really suck, and people don't wanna see commercials when they pay almost $10 for a movie!

i just dont wanna pay 10$ for a movie comercials or no

That, and a seat roughly equivalent to those on a commercial airplane.

 

Merlyn3D

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Sep 15, 2001
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Originally posted by: KentState
The mentioned "Stealth" a couple times as a flop. From the very first trailer, I knew that the movie was going to be horrible. I remember whispering to my wife that it would be an instant flop. If I can smell that one from a mile away, why can't the hollywood execs that fitler through thousands of ideas each year?


Probably because by now they're numb from the extreme suckage.
 

EKKC

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May 31, 2005
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i watched batman, f4, stealth and red eye so far this summer.

meh for stealth. :thumbsup: for f4, red eye and batman begins

otherwise its been sucking so far.

theres video game piracy going on but you dont see sony or MS blaming decline in sales on them, if anything i think they're making more money than ever...

re the article, at the beginning they say 9% drop in ticket sales and 11.5% in attendance, what, 2.5% buy ticket and not shwo up? ? :confused:
 

theMan

Diamond Member
Mar 17, 2005
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movies have sucked for years. i have seen an average of .75 movies a year for the past 5 years.
 

Merlyn3D

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Sep 15, 2001
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Originally posted by: EKKC
i watched batman, f4, stealth and red eye so far this summer.

meh for stealth. :thumbsup: for f4, red eye and batman begins

otherwise its been sucking so far.

theres video game piracy going on but you dont see sony or MS blaming decline in sales on them, if anything i think they're making more money than ever...

re the article, at the beginning they say 9% drop in ticket sales and 11.5% in attendance, what, 2.5% buy ticket and not shwo up? ? :confused:


You liked F4? I thought it was okay, or meh, but I mean the movie seemed so slow sometimes, with almost no action.
 

EKKC

Diamond Member
May 31, 2005
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i like it ok. maybe i was blinded by j.alba

the critics all trampled on the movie like it was dirt. they suck
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
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Originally posted by: EKKC
i watched batman, f4, stealth and red eye so far this summer.

meh for stealth. :thumbsup: for f4, red eye and batman begins

otherwise its been sucking so far.

theres video game piracy going on but you dont see sony or MS blaming decline in sales on them, if anything i think they're making more money than ever...

re the article, at the beginning they say 9% drop in ticket sales and 11.5% in attendance, what, 2.5% buy ticket and not shwo up? ? :confused:

Price increases.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
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Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: Merlyn3D


CLIFFS: Hollywood movies have started to really suck, and people don't wanna see commercials when they pay almost $10 for a movie!

i just dont wanna pay 10$ for a movie comercials or no

the 10 dollars hurts even more when some b*tch is talking during the movie. f*cking ruined the experience becomes.
 

Shadowknight

Diamond Member
May 4, 2001
3,959
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I see maybe 2, 3 movies a year at the theater. I only go in the afternoon when the prices are 6.50, or at night provided I have my student ID which gives me a discount so I still only pay 6.50. There is NO WAY I'll pay more than that. I either bring my own snacks or go without. I don't want to have to spend $4 for a drink, then have to go to the bathroom a couple of times during the movie.

If Hollywood really wants to keep making money, dump formula, stop having actors and executives interfere with the scripts, and concentrate on quality, not quantity.
 

Yreka

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2005
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Here is what kills going to the movies for me.

1. Price
2. The "super important person" who has to talk on the phone DURING THE MOVIE IN THE THEATRE
3. The "Funny Guy" shouting one liners out loud that no one laughs at
4. Giggly groups of teenagers who only went to the movies because they dont have anything better to do "too young to get into the bar + no fake ID's ;) "
5. General crowds, traffic etc.

The current crop of movie suckage is also part of it, but not a large part in my case. I used to go see movies I knew would be meh beforehand just to kill time. I dont do that at all anymore, I probably only see 1-3 movies a year nowadays.

I guess another factor would be the Home Theater equipment. With all the advances in that arena, they are really closing the gap on the whole "Theater Experience"
 

Glavinsolo

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Sep 2, 2004
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Movies have sucked lately. However, I wish I owned my own chain of movie theaters these days. The last thing big to happen from movie theaters 50years ago to those of today are: Surround sound and stadium seating. They need to change! Your movie theater is designed for 10% of the people who actually go see the movies. 12-45 year olds make up the majority.

Glavins list of much needed changes.

I want a bathroom within each viewing theater. I get up walk quietly to the back where I go to a restroom which has a mini screen showing the movie that I am watching. Or a 2 way mirror which will allow me visibility of the movie screen from within the restroom. I hate missing 1 minute of a movie at the theater no matter how bad it is.

Luxury viewing theaters. Anyone else feel that they are going to the county fair when going to see a movie rather than an upscale play or what not. I want an option to pay a little bit more so I get the comforts of home. A leather seat that is comfortable, 2 armrests per seated individual and how about a bar within the viewing theater. Everyone, doesn't matter who you are, wants to put their feet up while watching the movie, so lets do something about this. People wouldn't mind 3hour epic movies if they were comfortable watching it.

Head rests which are extendable with a head wall. Imagine this... You go to the theater and sit down in a seat that has a head rest with a helmet like design. No it doesnt fully enclose around your head. But is more like a U shape around your ears. It will have speakers inside but they are not nearly as loud as the surround sound in the theater. Why you ask? So I don't hear stupid people with stupid laughs or children who are the age of 3 crying because mommy decided to bring them into a slasher flick. I hate being brought out of the movie's dialogue just to here Billy drunkman with his awful laugh.

I have thought about more but that is more than enough for now.

 

NuclearNed

Raconteur
May 18, 2001
7,860
352
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I blame the Internet.

No, seriously. There was once a day that I would go see any movie, even if my local newspaper's critic said it sucked. Back then, I figured that the paper's critic might have had a bad day or something. Now I check RottenTomatoes every time I want to go out. Its a lot harder to see a movie when 83% of all critics hate it.
 

Glavinsolo

Platinum Member
Sep 2, 2004
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Oh I have thought about one thing that my GF and I have discussed.

My GF likes other stuff than what they sell at the concessions stand. It is hard to get passed the ushers/w/e when we enter the theater. She wants a starbuck's hot chocolate before we enter the movie theater, and what do they do? They force her to finish it before she can enter. WTF! You guys don't sell starbuck's hot chocolate therefore why the hell not let someone in because of it. I could understand if we had beers in our hands, but come on.
British movie theaters sell alcohol at their complexes. There is only one place that does that in my area and it is way too far from where my local theater is. They need to attend to the majority of moviegoers if they want to up their revenue. The times have changed and so have your customers.
 

JackStorm

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2003
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Originally posted by: Merlyn3D
Originally posted by: EKKC
i was blinded by j.alba

This is, of course, excuseable. Even my gf thinks she's gorgeous.

She can't act worth a damn, but she sure is hot. I wouldn't mind [Censored due to extreme deviant behavior] her.

As for the quality of the movies being released now a days: Yeah, most of them suck.

Also, it's rather annoying when some tell person sits infront of you or when there are people talking or screaming non-stop during the movie. Just ruins the whole thing. Happens to me a lot. Just isn't worth going anymore.

Only movie that didn't suck as much as I thought it would, was Batman Begins.