Finally: Moderate Muslims speak out. Somewhat loudly.

[irishScott]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10900478

Muslim group Minhaj ul-Quran runs 'anti-terrorism' camp
By Dominic Casciani BBC News home affairs correspondent
Dr Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri Dr Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri says he feels it is his duty to "save" young Muslims from extremism

A Muslim group has opened what it calls the UK's first summer camp against terrorism.

The three-day event in Coventry is expected to see more than 1,000 young Muslims at sessions teaching religious arguments to use against extremists.

The event has been organised by the Minhaj ul-Quran to promote a fatwa, or religious ruling, against terrorism by its leader Dr Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri.

Dr Qadri launched the fatwa in London in March.
'Spiritual war'

Opening the summer camp, Dr Qadri told the audience - predominantly made up of British Muslims - to reject al-Qaeda and its "cancer" that was spreading through their faith.

He told them to embrace being British and do all that they could to build a safe and secure society by using sound theological arguments to confront any extremists that they meet.

The populist Pakistani cleric's 600-page theological study is billed by his followers as the most comprehensive and clear denunciation of the arguments deployed by jihadists to justify violence including suicide bombings and the targeting of civilians.

The summer camp at Warwick University will concentrate on this document and will include debates and talks.

Participants are being asked to join "a spiritual war" against al-Qaeda's recruiters.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote

I feel it is my duty to save the younger generation from radicalisation and wave of terroristic recruitment in the West”

End Quote Dr Muhammad Tahir ul-Qadri

Minhaj ul-Quran, the international organisation set up by the cleric, argues that many traditional Muslim organisations have been too timid in taking on jihadist ideology, unintentionally leaving youngsters bewildered and susceptible to brainwashing.

The organisation, which is expanding in the UK, argues that there has to be a more public stand against extremism, underpinned by a sound understanding of what Islam says about violence.
'Radicalisation'

Speaking ahead of the event's launch, the cleric said: "I have announced an intellectual and spiritual war against extremism and terrorism. I believe this is the time for moderate Islamic scholars who believe in peace to stand up."

"I feel it is my duty to save the younger generation from radicalisation and wave of terroristic recruitment in the West."

Dr Qadri, now based in Canada, is not the first preacher to speak out against terrorism - but his followers hope his fatwa will become the most influential document in circulation.

The UK's largest umbrella body, the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), has repeatedly called together scholars and preachers to denounce extremism.

But critics say that some of the MCB's leaders have no moral authority to preach to youngsters because they have been equivocal about violence in the Middle East.

Now that's what I'm talking about. :thumbsup:

 

[FaaR]

What do you mean, "finally"?

It's no more moderate muslims' task to speak out against the wrongdoings of other muslims, than it is that of men to speak out about the wrongdoings of other men.

Your whole premise for your post is a complete fallacy.

 

[Jaskalas]

It's a start. These groups should be looked at carefully, and then supported if found to be true.

 

[irishScott]

What do you mean, "finally"?

It's no more moderate muslims' task to speak out against the wrongdoings of other muslims, than it is that of men to speak out about the wrongdoings of other men.

Your whole premise for your post is a complete fallacy.

Actually it is the responsibility of decent people to speak out against the wrongdoings of other people. Especially when said people are traditionally grouped together, and the problem (ie: radical Islam) is particularly widespread.

Or I guess the moderates should just allow the radicals to speak for them, as the radicals claim.

 

[JS80]

What is that? Like 0.01% of the Islamic population? They are seen as heretics by true "moderates," and will probably eventually be blown to bits by their own.

 

[irishScott]

What is that? Like 0.01% of the Islamic population? They are seen as heretics by true "moderates," and will probably eventually be blown to bits by their own.

It's still more significant and public than the occasional cleric going on video timidly saying "yeah, terrorists bad." Which is pretty much all we've had so far.

 

[JEDIYoda]

What do you mean, "finally"?

It's no more moderate muslims' task to speak out against the wrongdoings of other muslims, than it is that of men to speak out about the wrongdoings of other men.

Your whole premise for your post is a complete fallacy.

FaaR off base you are...

 

[Moonbeam]

I would like to study and understand his arguments and those of Al Quaeda but I don't have the time or likely the capacity. It would help a lot, I am sure to speak and read Arabic.

 

[Sclamoz]

Actually it is the responsibility of decent people to speak out against the wrongdoings of other people. Especially when said people are traditionally grouped together, and the problem (ie: radical Islam) is particularly widespread.

Or I guess the moderates should just allow the radicals to speak for them, as the radicals claim.

Or you could realize that just because a radical says they represent others it doesn't make it true.

 

[Moonbeam]

I know a barn that has a window where there are thousands of dead flies laying around. Before I saw it I had no fucking idea what a killer window it was:

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

 

[Craig234]

Actually it is the responsibility of decent people to speak out against the wrongdoings of other people. Especially when said people are traditionally grouped together, and the problem (ie: radical Islam or the United States radical right) is particularly widespread.

Fixed

Ever once heard our right-wing politicians say 'radical Christians' even exist (apart from Phelps)?

 

[irishScott]

Or you could realize that just because a radical says they represent others it doesn't make it true.

Or I could understand that, from a white western perspective radicals have basically become the face of Islam. If I were Muslim I would like to do whatever I could to challenge that image, lest my reputation default to "radical".

 

[irishScott]

I know a barn that has a window where there are thousands of dead flies laying around. Before I saw it I had no fucking idea what a killer window it was:

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

And yet I haven't heard of any of those, and I'd like to think I'm more tuned in than the average US citizen. From the spattering of links I clicked on that page most were old/404 and very few were on non-Islamic news sites. Dr Qadri in the OP seems to be the first to understand the value of publicity.

 

[irishScott]

Fixed

Ever once heard our right-wing politicians say 'radical Christians' even exist (apart from Phelps)?

Well one must remember that to you the "radical right" is everything right of flaming Liberal.

 

[1prophet]

Imagine if Phelps had the billions of Saudi money in his coffers to spread his version of the gospel to almost every church, only then can one understand the power and influence of Wahhabi Islam and why few can stand against it.

Here is an example of a moderate muslim that did something more than give some sort of bland all encompassing condemnation and his reward was being kicked out of his mosque and this happened in the USA not the middle east.

In his own words during an interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbkrKH7SCio




The letter that got him in trouble.

Because of lack of knowledge of Islam, Muslim youth are misguided into believing by the so-called champions of the cause of Islam that the current spate of killings and barbarism, which has no equal in the recent civilized history, is jihad in the name of Islam. They are incited, in the name of Islam, to commit heinous crimes not pardonable by any religion and strictly forbidden in Islam.... Even mosques and Islamic institutions in the U.S. and around the world have become tools in [Al-Qaeda's] hands and are used for collecting funds for their criminal acts. Half of the funds collected go into the pockets of their local agents and the rest are sent to these thugs.
They are the reason for branding the peaceful religion of Islam as terrorism. The result, therefore, is in the form of Danish cartoons and remarks/reference by the Pope.
I appeal to the Muslim youth in particular and Muslims of the world in general to rise up and start jihad against the killers of humanity and help the civilized world to bring these culprits to justice and prove that Islam is not a religion of hatred and aggression.
I appeal to the Muslim clerics around the world that, rather than issuing empty fatwas condemning suicide bombing, they should issue a fatwa for the death of such scoundrels and barbarians who have taken more than 4,267 lives of innocent people in the name of Islam and have carried out more than 24 terrorist attacks on civilian installations throughout the world. This does not include the chilling number of deaths because of such activities in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is well over 250,000.
I appeal to al-Zawahri and his band of thugs to hand themselves over to justice and stop spreading evil and killing innocent humans around the world in the name of Islam. Their time is limited and Muslims of the world will soon rise against them to apprehend them and bring them to justice.​

 

[heyheybooboo]

What is that? Like 0.01% of the Islamic population? They are seen as heretics by true "moderates," and will probably eventually be blown to bits by their own.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^

--

 

[jackschmittusa]

The terrorist elements recruit using religious arguments. The approach used in the OP is to give religious grounds to refute those arguments. fight fire with fire!

Who is better equipped to carry this out? Muslims or anyman? Which is more likely to be considered credible in the eyes of Muslims?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Of course there are lots of Muslims speaking out all the time but it don't get much play in the US maybe?

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&q=musli...against+radicals&gs_rfai=&fp=e152ff60f580dc26

 

[Craig234]

Well one must remember that to you the "radical right" is everything right of flaming Liberal.

You lie about my position. Guess that's the easy way for you.

 

[Jaskalas]

Fixed

Ever once heard our right-wing politicians say 'radical Christians' even exist (apart from Phelps)?

If they do something worthy of attention. All you've got are a few crackpots like the guy who killed an abortion doctor. Well guess where he is now? Not free to be celebrated as a hero. Instead he rots in jail, as is the case with any of the others.

Quite a contrast you're trying to hide here.

 

[MotF Bane]

Well one must remember that to you the "radical right" is everything right of flaming Liberal.

:awe:

 

[irishScott]

You lie about my position. Guess that's the easy way for you.

You delude yourself about your own position and try to hijack my thread. Suck it.

 

[Lemon law]

My take is that its not the OP premise of this thread is wrong, its the idiots who respond. With their premise that Islam is the religion of terrorists and we are the automatic good guys always.

Its all well and fine for us to self brand ourselves as the good guys, but when we travel 1/2 way around the world and totally disrupt the status quo of some other culture, what is our self declared we are the good guys worth? Short answer, doodly squat. Especially when we the good guys turn out to pretty damn rotten and tow along our own wake, anarchy, chaos, incompetence, and corruption.

But what about the terrorists, are they the self declared good guys either just because they think they are? And the other question is, should we bee so foolish as to think terrorism is just a Muslim thing when it has a 6000+ year history, 4800 years of which has been Muslim free.

In short, I suggest local movements to fight terrorism is a two edged sword and maybe a three edged one. In Iraq, we drove a wedge between Iraqi Sunnis and Al-Quida because the fact was, Al-Quida was getting their Sunni hosts killed, and the Iraqi Sunni hope was to survive, and the Al-Quida hope was get as many Iraqis killed as possible to further their terrorist objectives. And because Al-Quida is hated by majority Iraqi Shia, and have little support from Kurds, they lost the ability to swim through the Iraqi people like Fish through water. Now because Iraq still has no real government or political progress, Al-Quida attacks se4em to be on the rise.

But in the non Islamic military conflict we had in Vietnam, the USA self declared good guys lost totally. Partly because the USA got on the wrong side of a historical Vietnamese force, because the USA tried to be the dividers of Vietnam And we also did zero for most Vietnamese, while we subsidized a corrupt centralized South Vietnamese Government that did little for its people. And that is maybe what I am talking about as the third edge of the sword, the South Vietnamese people knew that North Vietnam would still be there, and after a dozen years, they realized until the USA left, their lives would be nothing but misery and anarchy until one side or the other quit making their homes into a battleground.

We are mainly in the same position in Afghanistan with the Taliban, even if the Afhgan people want to still like Nato best, Nato has been too cheap and corrupt to have any hope of winning. If the Afghan people want peace, either Nato or the Taliban have got to go.

 

[sandorski]

What do you mean, "finally"?


Your whole premise for your post is a complete fallacy.

This, srsly. We had this thread many years ago when Muslims first spoke out against such actions. I don't recall exactly when, but sometime shortly after, oh what's that date, oh ya, 9/11.

 

[CallMeJoe]

This, srsly. We had this thread many years ago when Muslims first spoke out against such actions. I don't recall exactly when, but sometime shortly after, oh what's that date, oh ya, 9/11.

If a Muslim speaks out against radicals and IrishScott doesn't hear it, does it really happen?