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Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
13,066
2
81
Originally posted by: dNor
Is it possible for alkemyst to not be a complete tool in a thread?

nope.

I wish we could trade Casiotech for Alkemyst. At least Casiotech is mildly amusing in the process of being argumentative about everything.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
in alkymess' world if you have ever gotten a buy 1 get 1 free. You have stolen. For that brief second before the transaction has completed you have the second item and haven't paid for it yet and its not yet free therefore its stolen but just breifly stolen.

no dumbfuck, when a merchant is advertising BOGO you aren't stealing.

When you exploit a pricing mistake you are.

When both the price the machine has programed and the tag below the item do not exist, one can fairly reach the conclusion that there is no price on these items.

Ahh so you were there and can determine all this?

In the last thread, you thought I was annoying, but I was RIGHT.

It has got to be annoying that the police keep harassing you when you try to steal shit, huh?
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: alkemyst
It's pretty fucked up when you people can't see the crime/ethics in this kind of thing.

It's pretty fucked up that you get so bent out of shape over minuscule things like this and go on tirades acting like you've never done anything morally questionable for personal gain and ruin threads in the process. You make perfectly normal individuals not want to visit these forums.

wait, when have normal people ever posted here?
 

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
Sort of slightly off topic but to alkemyst:

If I went to a store and bought a can of soda and after paying for it, took a straw to drink it. Did I just commit theft? I'm curious... because I didn't pay for a straw, I paid for a can of soda and no where in the store did it say buy one soda get straw free.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
in alkymess' world if you have ever gotten a buy 1 get 1 free. You have stolen. For that brief second before the transaction has completed you have the second item and haven't paid for it yet and its not yet free therefore its stolen but just breifly stolen.

no dumbfuck, when a merchant is advertising BOGO you aren't stealing.

When you exploit a pricing mistake you are.

Ahhh, so you've never taken advantage of a pricing error? If you saw that a store had a price on something so low it had to be a mistake, you'd immediately inform the management of their error? Good for you... no one wants to be "that guy," but someone has to be (primarily to serve as cautionary examples to everyone else about how not to be a douchebag).

The OP did exactly nothing illegal in this situation. Not one single thing. The product had no advertised price and was dispensed freely by the machine with no intervention on the OP's part. One could say that there was a reasonable expectation that the product cost money, but as it was not labeled with a price, nor (I'm assuming), indicated anywhere on the machine that failure to report receiving free merchandise constituted a criminal act, there was no illegal activity, and thus no crime committed. It may not have been ethical, but it was perfectly legal.
 

ConstipatedVigilante

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2006
7,670
1
0
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
in alkymess' world if you have ever gotten a buy 1 get 1 free. You have stolen. For that brief second before the transaction has completed you have the second item and haven't paid for it yet and its not yet free therefore its stolen but just breifly stolen.

no dumbfuck, when a merchant is advertising BOGO you aren't stealing.

When you exploit a pricing mistake you are.

When both the price the machine has programed and the tag below the item do not exist, one can fairly reach the conclusion that there is no price on these items.

Ahh so you were there and can determine all this?

In the last thread, you thought I was annoying, but I was RIGHT.

It has got to be annoying that the police keep harassing you when you try to steal shit, huh?

I really hope Lemmiwinks is ok...
 

Injury

Lifer
Jul 19, 2004
13,066
2
81
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Injury
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
in alkymess' world if you have ever gotten a buy 1 get 1 free. You have stolen. For that brief second before the transaction has completed you have the second item and haven't paid for it yet and its not yet free therefore its stolen but just breifly stolen.

no dumbfuck, when a merchant is advertising BOGO you aren't stealing.

When you exploit a pricing mistake you are.

When both the price the machine has programed and the tag below the item do not exist, one can fairly reach the conclusion that there is no price on these items.

Ahh so you were there and can determine all this?

In the last thread, you thought I was annoying, but I was RIGHT.

It has got to be annoying that the police keep harassing you when you try to steal shit, huh?

No, I wasn't there, but the OP was and told us this. Unless YOU were there you don't have any more information to go on.

You ARE annoying and I don't care if you are right or wrong that will never change. The fact that you have to turn everything into a contest about it is what makes you annoying. You seem to think that you are the moral police and must object to every post that you can think up some arguing point for no matter how far-fetched it is.

Finally, it's hilarious that you try and make shit up to try and incriminate people for things that don't make sense. I don't know why you think you have to create some scenario about me getting harassed for stealing things when it's both never happened, nor (as your own post uses as a rebuttal) there to see and determine anything. This is the primary tactic of a TROLL and I'm almost ashamed that I justified a reply to you because you're clearly just an ass on a mission to annoy people.
 

darkxshade

Lifer
Mar 31, 2001
13,749
6
81
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: IcebergSlim
in alkymess' world if you have ever gotten a buy 1 get 1 free. You have stolen. For that brief second before the transaction has completed you have the second item and haven't paid for it yet and its not yet free therefore its stolen but just breifly stolen.

no dumbfuck, when a merchant is advertising BOGO you aren't stealing.

When you exploit a pricing mistake you are.

Ahhh, so you've never taken advantage of a pricing error? If you saw that a store had a price on something so low it had to be a mistake, you'd immediately inform the management of their error? Good for you... no one wants to be "that guy," but someone has to be (primarily to serve as cautionary examples to everyone else about how not to be a douchebag).

The OP did exactly nothing illegal in this situation. Not one single thing. The product had no advertised price and was dispensed freely by the machine with no intervention on the OP's part. One could say that there was a reasonable expectation that the product cost money, but as it was not labeled with a price, nor (I'm assuming), indicated anywhere on the machine that failure to report receiving free merchandise constituted a criminal act, there was no illegal activity, and thus no crime committed. It may not have been ethical, but it was perfectly legal.

Reminds me of that time when Newegg sent out 4 eeePCs/order by accident because they thought a case(of 4) was just one and people kept it. No one went to jail because it's not illegal when the seller makes a price mistake. So even if the item in the vending machine should have cost money. Fact is, the seller set it to 0 and the OP bought it at 0, yes he *bought* it at 0... no theft there. It's all about ethics, nothing about legality.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: Injury

No, I wasn't there, but the OP was and told us this. Unless YOU were there you don't have any more information to go on.

You ARE annoying and I don't care if you are right or wrong that will never change. The fact that you have to turn everything into a contest about it is what makes you annoying. You seem to think that you are the moral police and must object to every post that you can think up some arguing point for no matter how far-fetched it is.

Finally, it's hilarious that you try and make shit up to try and incriminate people for things that don't make sense. I don't know why you think you have to create some scenario about me getting harassed for stealing things when it's both never happened, nor (as your own post uses as a rebuttal) there to see and determine anything. This is the primary tactic of a TROLL and I'm almost ashamed that I justified a reply to you because you're clearly just an ass on a mission to annoy people.

Hate to break this too you, but I made my statement and you turned it into a contest...

Great you are admitting you are a child though and will just crap in a thread whether I am right or wrong.

What did I make up, with an attitude like you have it's clear you have taken liberty here or there on something that was not really your's.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Ahhh, so you've never taken advantage of a pricing error? If you saw that a store had a price on something so low it had to be a mistake, you'd immediately inform the management of their error? Good for you... no one wants to be "that guy," but someone has to be (primarily to serve as cautionary examples to everyone else about how not to be a douchebag).

The OP did exactly nothing illegal in this situation. Not one single thing. The product had no advertised price and was dispensed freely by the machine with no intervention on the OP's part. One could say that there was a reasonable expectation that the product cost money, but as it was not labeled with a price, nor (I'm assuming), indicated anywhere on the machine that failure to report receiving free merchandise constituted a criminal act, there was no illegal activity, and thus no crime committed. It may not have been ethical, but it was perfectly legal.

I have never taken advantage of a pricing error and have reported them when I have found out.

Last thing I want as a consumer that can afford to pay the proper price for something is for that price to go up due to exploits. There is already a high amount of theft in retail, no need to add to the porblem.

Like I said it may not be illegal, but I doubt a court would side with it. Regardless it's about ETHICS.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,555
9,907
146
What the OP may well not be illegal but it is unethical, and to take every single bag of those pretzels was greedy.

A lot of vending machines are leased by bigger companies to small-time guys busting their humps trying to make a living from them. I know a fool who once tried this, because he was disabled and not able to work most other jobs. He got bad locations and lost money on his desperate little venture, the poor sap.

Strictly ethically, you simply cannot argue that what the OP did was wrong. To answer this, ask yourself if the OP would have tried his little trick 15 times in a row if the owner of the machine was standing there, or if the boss of his company was standing there, or if his mother was standing there.

No, no, and no? Why not? BEcause he KNEW what he did was wrong!

The OP took advantage of a mistake. He took way too much advantage, because there was no one there to stop or shame him. I understand his frustration because the stupid machine had cheated him previously, but the bottom line is that what he did, to the extent that he did it, is not ethical.

So, when some salesman or company or politician cuts some ethical corners and tools you just because they can, don't come crying to anyone if you support the very same "anything you can get away with" way of living your life.
 

maziwanka

Lifer
Jul 4, 2000
10,415
1
0
ethics maybe you shouldn't have done it. but damn, karma is nice. it's a damn vending machine. after having a lot of headache with it (i assume the OP did), he got some free pretzels. big deal. i love how long this thread has gotten
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Alke served hard time in federal pound me in the ass prison, cut him some slack guys.
 
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
Originally posted by: Perknose
What the OP may well not be illegal but it is unethical, and to take every single bag of those pretzels was greedy.

A lot of vending machines are leased by bigger companies to small-time guys busting their humps trying to make a living from them. I know a fool who once tried this, because he was disabled and not able to work most other jobs. He got bad locations and lost money on his desperate little venture, the poor sap.

Strictly ethically, you simply cannot argue that what the OP did was wrong. To answer this, ask yourself if the OP would have tried his little trick 15 times in a row if the owner of the machine was standing there, or if the boss of his company was standing there, or if his mother was standing there.

No, no, and no? Why not? BEcause he KNEW what he did was wrong!

The OP took advantage of a mistake. He took way too much advantage, because there was no one there to stop or shame him. I understand his frustration because the stupid machine had cheated him previously, but the bottom line is that what he did, to the extent that he did it, is not ethical.

So, when some salesman or company or politician cuts some ethical corners and tools you just because they can, don't come crying to anyone if you support the very same "anything you can get away with" way of living your life.

I'll agree with you in principle, but there's absolutely no comparison that can be reasonably drawn between a politician or businessman cutting ethical corners and the theft of a few bags of chips. Let's assume 15 bags of pretzels, normally 65 cents a piece... That's less than 10 dollars. Even ignoring the fact that most businessmen and politicians have an explicit code of ethics they must adhere to if they want to keep their job (no such code exists for vending machine customers that I'm aware of), if a politician or businessman did steal $10, no one would give a shit. Raking Ice over the coals for taking advantage of this situation is just petty. Mocking him is fine, but saying that his ethics violation is comparable to an actual issue is just retarded.

And to answer your question, if a vending machine was giving away free stuff, I would do it in front of my mother, the machine owner or my boss. I wouldn't have taken 15 bags of pretzels, because that's just silly, but I probably would have snagged a couple extras and mentioned the good deal I was getting. My boss would split them with me, my mother probably would if she weren't on a low-sodium diet, and the owner would say, "whoa, better fix that," because no one cares about a handful of change.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,555
9,907
146
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
I'll agree with you in principle, but there's absolutely no comparison that can be reasonably drawn between a politician or businessman cutting ethical corners and the theft of a few bags of chips.

[...]

My boss would split them with me, [...] my mother probably would if she weren't on a low-sodium diet.

If you agree with me on principle, but would act differently in practice, then you are a hypocrite who doesn't practice your principles.

You simply can't have it both ways.

In ethics, the amount does not matter. What's wrong is wrong is wrong. There is NO way around that. None.

And now that we know that, at least according to you, your mother would whore her ethics out for a $.65 bag of unsalted pretzels, how much to bang her?

. . . Because I've got a ton of quarters just burning a hole in my pocket. rimshot> :laugh:

I say the above in jest, only to make a point. IRL, I wouldn't bang your mother if she paid me. ;)

To put it in perspective you may be better able to respect and understand, I must turn to Winston Churchill:

Churchill: Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?

Socialite: My goodness, Mr. Churchill? Well, I suppose? we would have to discuss terms, of course?

Churchill: Would you sleep with me for five pounds?

Socialite: Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!

Churchill: Madam, we?ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: Perknose
And now that we know that, at least according to you, your mother would whore her ethics out for a $.65 bag of unsalted pretzels, how much to bang her?

I'll buy that for a dollar!
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy
I'll agree with you in principle, but there's absolutely no comparison that can be reasonably drawn between a politician or businessman cutting ethical corners and the theft of a few bags of chips. Let's assume 15 bags of pretzels, normally 65 cents a piece... That's less than 10 dollars. Even ignoring the fact that most businessmen and politicians have an explicit code of ethics they must adhere to if they want to keep their job (no such code exists for vending machine customers that I'm aware of), if a politician or businessman did steal $10, no one would give a shit. Raking Ice over the coals for taking advantage of this situation is just petty. Mocking him is fine, but saying that his ethics violation is comparable to an actual issue is just retarded.

And to answer your question, if a vending machine was giving away free stuff, I would do it in front of my mother, the machine owner or my boss. I wouldn't have taken 15 bags of pretzels, because that's just silly, but I probably would have snagged a couple extras and mentioned the good deal I was getting. My boss would split them with me, my mother probably would if she weren't on a low-sodium diet, and the owner would say, "whoa, better fix that," because no one cares about a handful of change.

Actually he is very right. It's all further up the economies of scale you go.

It's funny these same people that say they'd rob a vending machine, take all the newspapers out of a machine, use Postal Boxes they get for free to move with, etc act all high and mighty on other issues that they don't influence.

I am sure that these kinds of people would be the first to take kick-backs, 'round up' in their favor, etc should they ever rise up out of the shit hole that is their life.

It's unfortunate and well-proven that us 'humans' tend to be more interested in self-profit even at the expense of our fellow man than ever doing the 'right' thing.

It makes it even easier to stomach when you can blame someone for your actions. The vending machine took my money so now I will steal from the vending machine.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Alke served hard time in federal pound me in the ass prison, cut him some slack guys.

I didn't know you referred to your bedroom at your mom's house as prison. Guess it makes you feel more harder and boosts your street cred.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,555
9,907
146
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: Perknose
And now that we know that, at least according to you, your mother would whore her ethics out for a $.65 bag of unsalted pretzels, how much to bang her?

I'll buy that for a dollar!

Imagine my exquisite joy about being linked with you in an argument. :roll: