Finally, Europeans are growing a spine

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
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Blair tells migrants to accept British values

The article is still trying to be politically correct by lumping all religious/ethnic minorities together whereas, in reality, it is the Muslim community that is at the root cause of the problem (you don't hear of Sikh/Hindu/Buddhist terror cells, do you?).

But it's a start.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,004
8,039
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Originally posted by: tvarad

Blair tells migrants to accept British values

The article is still trying to be politically correct by lumping all religious/ethnic minorities together whereas, in reality, it is the Muslim community that is at the root cause of the problem (you don't hear of Sikh/Hindu/Buddhist terror cells, do you?).

But it's a start.

The key word in your statement is "Blair tells". This "tough" talk is quickly on the way out and has long sense lost popularity required to maintain it. Blair himself will soon be no more than the history books speak of him, unless you missed the mentioning of him leaving office.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
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Some of his sentiment is correct - that same tolerance should be extended to others, and people live under BRITISH LAW...NOT Somali law or any other type of mini system that may exist. But again the line is drawn when he demands total conformity~ Wearing or not wearing a Hijab shouldn't be an issue to him providing that a woman wants to wear it.

One of the biggest problems is that we have to realize immigrants just don't accept the culture here- but we accept part of their culture as well. Is American culture today the same it was 50, 100, 150, 200 years ago? No - it clearly isn't. Both sides will influence, but the host country will do the vast majority of influencing.

British migrants should learn to RESPECT and ABIDE by British Law, Migrants should make an attempt to learn to speak the language (but this should never be forced...economic incentive should be enough - and if they don't learn it, well they will most likely have kids who will speak it)....but there is a point where one can be a British citizen and share the same overall aspirations as British citizentry without having to act totally like them.

 

Enig101

Senior member
May 21, 2006
362
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So up until this point, Europeans have been spineless? Nice.

I agree with Mr.Blair for the most part. There's nothing wrong with immigration, but people should expect to conform to the society they enter, not the other way around. In this case, that means showing tolerance to other viewpoints, which I support.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,757
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Excellent post magomago. It's nice to see someone put some rational thought into this issue rather than spouting some tired old jingoistic line.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
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Originally posted by: tvarad

Blair tells migrants to accept British values

The article is still trying to be politically correct by lumping all religious/ethnic minorities together whereas, in reality, it is the Muslim community that is at the root cause of the problem (you don't hear of Sikh/Hindu/Buddhist terror cells, do you?).

But it's a start.

Well, Britain did have a major problem with Catholic terrorists for a few years longer then this Muslim thing has been going on, perhaps they still might be thinking a little about that too.
 

imported_dna

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2006
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It would be nice if the US had some spine too, instead of accepting crackpot accusations of intolerance.

Example: the gym incident

Gotta love it -- they even demanded separate workout area for women.
 

cumhail

Senior member
Apr 1, 2003
682
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0
Originally posted by: dna
It would be nice if the US had some spine too, instead of accepting crackpot accusations of intolerance.

Example: the gym incident

Gotta love it -- they even demanded separate workout area for women.

Can you maybe point us to something a little more credible and unbiased than littlegreenfootballs.com...? Not really hard, actually. Go to news.google.com or news.yahoo.com and randomly pick out any search result. Chances are pretty damned good that it will be a source that might at least pretends not to be proudly biased.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Originally posted by: dna
It would be nice if the US had some spine too, instead of accepting crackpot accusations of intolerance.

Example: the gym incident

Gotta love it -- they even demanded separate workout area for women.

This is a pure setup no way do you pray in front of someone elses locker and prevent them access to it.
A Muslim woman in Dearborn, Mich., lodged a complaint Tuesday against Fitness USA for an alleged civil rights violation involving a fellow gym patron. According to Jodi Berry, executive director of Fitness USA, Wardeh Sultan was praying in front of another member?s locker when the member wanted access to her belongings inside the locker. The inconvenienced patron tried to interrupt Ms. Sultan, but she remained prostrate in front of the locker and an altercation ensued. A manager was called into the locker room to intervene.

Ms. Sultan later complained that the Fitness USA management was unconcerned about the humiliation she suffered when her prayers were interrupted. She stated that the gym personnel were insensitive, rejected her complaints and did not satisfactorily intervene on her behalf. Ms. Sultan further reported that the manager told her, ?You have to respect her (the other patron), but she does not have to respect your god.?

The incident is yet another example of special treatment Muslims are increasingly demanding nationwide. Last April, at the Lincoln Park, Mich. Fitness USA location, 200 Muslim women signed a petition demanding separate workout times for men and women, or, at minimum, installation of a divider between the men?s and women?s gym sections. A screen was eventually erected to obstruct the view of the women?s facilities. Another Fitness USA facility recently revised a dress code to allow Muslim women to wear more modest dress while exercising.



Imagine if 200 christians asked for the same divider and workout times, I bet their would be a public outcry and many here would be among those bashing them for such a request.
 

imported_dna

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2006
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LGF is not the source of the story, so don't try to make it seem that way.

If you had followed the links, then you would've found out that the praying chick was parked in front of someone's locker, and that is according to the executive director of Fitness USA.

I've been in several gyms, and usually the locker room is pretty crampped, and I doubt anybody could start praying there without inconveniencing other people.
If it were me in that situation I would also be pissed and "interrupt" the other person.

A gym is not a house of worship, and that's pretty much the bottom line.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Originally posted by: dna
It would be nice if the US had some spine too, instead of accepting crackpot accusations of intolerance.

Example: the gym incident

Gotta love it -- they even demanded separate workout area for women.

You don't work out a lot, do you? MOST nicer gyms have separate workout areas for women if they choose to use them, and a lot of them do. Mostly because guys at gyms seem to universally think it's a singles club, and a woman working out is just waiting for some jackass to come up and hit on her. But of course since it's not Muslims requesting it, it's perfectly acceptable, right?
 

imported_dna

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2006
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Originally posted by: Rainsford
You don't work out a lot, do you? MOST nicer gyms have separate workout areas for women if they choose to use them, and a lot of them do. Mostly because guys at gyms seem to universally think it's a singles club, and a woman working out is just waiting for some jackass to come up and hit on her. But of course since it's not Muslims requesting it, it's perfectly acceptable, right?

Oh, I'm sorry Mr. fittness, I wasn't aware of jerks at the gym. :roll:

Gyms usually have a cardio-zone, a machine zone, and a weights zone.

Obviously you didn't even click on the link, as then you would've seen the following:
Last April, at the Lincoln Park, Mich. Fitness USA location, 200 Muslim women signed a petition demanding separate workout times for men and women, or, at minimum, installation of a divider between the men?s and women?s gym sections.

I don't know how their gym is arranged, but I have not seen one which has a specific zone for women and another for men. Sure, the body-builders will usually be playing with the free weights, while the women will spend more time with the cardio equip, using the machines, or just stretching.
 

cumhail

Senior member
Apr 1, 2003
682
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0
Originally posted by: dna
LGF is not the source of the story, so don't try to make it seem that way.

If you had followed the links, then you would've found out that the praying chick was parked in front of someone's locker, and that is according to the executive director of Fitness USA.

I've been in several gyms, and usually the locker room is pretty crampped, and I doubt anybody could start praying there without inconveniencing other people.
If it were me in that situation I would also be pissed and "interrupt" the other person.

A gym is not a house of worship, and that's pretty much the bottom line.

I did follow links... and was taken to Frontpagemagazine.com as the source of that information you mention. According to their entry in Wikipedia:

FrontPageMag.com is an online neoconservative political magazine, edited by David Horowitz and is published by the David Horowitz Freedom Center (formerly the Center for the Study of Public Culture), a non-profit organization in Los Angeles, California.

FrontPageMag's main focus is on issues pertaining to foreign policy, war, and terrorism, and is a strong proponent of the war on terror, the Iraq War, and Israel. It has also published articles which are highly critical of what it perceives as left-wing organizations and causes, such as the Democratic party, the media, the environmental movement, affirmative action, reparations for slavery, left-wing interpretations of feminism, Islamism, socialism, communism, anti-war groups, the United Nations, and other matters.
.

How does that help? A previous entry at littlegreenfootballs.com references a story at Detnews.com; but that story makes no mention of any such quote and does not offer enough information for any reasonable reader to conclude who, if anyone, is at fault. All that story says about where she prayed is that "The pair (the person in question and a friend) used a closet off of the locker room;" not that she/they were blocking lockers.

So let's try again... do you have any even slightly unbiased sources of information regarding this report? Because while it may be that the gym supervisor is being accurately quoted in the Frontpagemagazine.com article and that the story is being fairly represented there, nothing about the sources you're providing, so far, makes that easy to assume.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Originally posted by: dna
Originally posted by: Rainsford
You don't work out a lot, do you? MOST nicer gyms have separate workout areas for women if they choose to use them, and a lot of them do. Mostly because guys at gyms seem to universally think it's a singles club, and a woman working out is just waiting for some jackass to come up and hit on her. But of course since it's not Muslims requesting it, it's perfectly acceptable, right?

Oh, I'm sorry Mr. fittness, I wasn't aware of jerks at the gym. :roll:

Gyms usually have a cardio-zone, a machine zone, and a weights zone.

Obviously you didn't even click on the link, as then you would've seen the following:
Last April, at the Lincoln Park, Mich. Fitness USA location, 200 Muslim women signed a petition demanding separate workout times for men and women, or, at minimum, installation of a divider between the men?s and women?s gym sections.

I don't know how their gym is arranged, but I have not seen one which has a specific zone for women and another for men. Sure, the body-builders will usually be playing with the free weights, while the women will spend more time with the cardio equip, using the machines, or just stretching.

What part of what I said was this confusing? A lot of gyms have a separate area for women with ALL those things in it, like a totally separate gym. Most people I know have no problem with this, and many (like myself) actually understand why they might want to work out in their own area. I don't see how this is different from what these Muslim women want, the only difference I can see is that they want it because of religious reasons, not to avoid getting hit on, and suddenly everyone it pitching a fit about it. So you'll forgive me if I don't share your extreme outrage about this, since the only thing unique about this situation is WHY they want a separate section. And given the fact that the world is full of people like you, I can't say I blame them any more than I blame the women who want to work out without getting hit on.
 

imported_dna

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2006
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Originally posted by: cumhail
So let's try again... do you have any even slightly unbiased sources of information regarding this report? Because while it may be that the gym supervisor is being accurately quoted in the Frontpagemagazine.com article and that the story is being fairly represented there, nothing about the sources you're providing, so far, makes that easy to assume.

If you accept that the supervisor is accurately quoted, do you really need more?
Like I said, a locker room is usually cramped, and is not the place to pray.
So far all you find around the net is that chick was "interrupted", without any details as to why and how. Now you have the how and why.
 

imported_dna

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2006
1,755
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Originally posted by: Rainsford
A lot of gyms have a separate area for women with ALL those things in it, like a totally separate gym.

All right, my bad, I missread the actual article: I though they were demanding separate areas in a shared gym, but what they were asking is different workout times for men and women, which is bad as well.

Anyway, I got no issue with gyms providing separate facilities for men and women, but, obviously, I don't use them. I imagine they're extra expensive.

As for guys trying to pick up women, I can't say I've seen a case where someone would get to the point of bothering someone; I imagine they would get their membership revoked.
 

Extelleron

Diamond Member
Dec 26, 2005
3,127
0
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The Europeans need to get tougher, or Europe will be invaded by Muslims. Most muslims are fine, hard workers, but some (a good percentage) want us/the Europeans to change to accomodate THEM. That's not how it should work.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,632
50,852
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Damn you Muslims! Why are you always trying to get society to be more how you want it!?!!! You don't see Jews, Christians, or secularits doing that DO YOU???? And by signing a PETITION of all things!!! I swear, the next nonviolent thing I see a Muslim do to advance their way of life... I'm just going to lose it.
 

cumhail

Senior member
Apr 1, 2003
682
0
0
Originally posted by: dna
Originally posted by: cumhail
So let's try again... do you have any even slightly unbiased sources of information regarding this report? Because while it may be that the gym supervisor is being accurately quoted in the Frontpagemagazine.com article and that the story is being fairly represented there, nothing about the sources you're providing, so far, makes that easy to assume.

If you accept that the supervisor is accurately quoted, do you really need more?
Like I said, a locker room is usually cramped, and is not the place to pray.
So far all you find around the net is that chick was "interrupted", without any details as to why and how. Now you have the how and why.


I said "while it may be..." meaning that while it is uncertain, I am acknowledging that it falls within the realm of possibility. I then go on to clarify, saying that your choices of sources makes it less likely that any reasonable person would accept the stated "facts" on face value and would like some sort of verification from a more credible source of information.

Now did you actually not know what that meant or did it just better serve your needs to pretend you didn't? I'm not sure which would be worse; but I'm curious, nonetheless. And more importantly... and now for the third time... do you have any even slightly credible sources of information we can be going on than the likes of littlegreenfootballs.com and frontpagemagazine.com?
 

imported_dna

Golden Member
Aug 14, 2006
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Give it some time, I'm sure more source will pick it up, just like it was with the flying Imams who were supposedly removed only for praying, and then we found out they did a little bit more than that. This is a problem with this sensational media: they got a scoop about the little guy being abused by the institution, and they are all over it without checking facts. Personally, I find it very odd that no other source found it necessary to inform us why she was interrupted.

Anyway, you're one step away from stating that the guys at frontpagemag fabricated that declaration, so just go ahead and do so -- your insistance on mentioning LGF every time leaves no doubt about it.

The fact that this or that website has an opinion does not mean that when they quote someone we can't trust them. Heck, if that was the case, then you wouldn't be able to trust the BBC either.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,004
8,039
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Originally posted by: dna
LGF is not the source of the story, so don't try to make it seem that way.

If you had followed the links, then you would've found out that the praying chick was parked in front of someone's locker, and that is according to the executive director of Fitness USA.

I've been in several gyms, and usually the locker room is pretty crampped, and I doubt anybody could start praying there without inconveniencing other people.
If it were me in that situation I would also be pissed and "interrupt" the other person.

A gym is not a house of worship, and that's pretty much the bottom line.

The planet is their house of worship and you a just an infidel who they vow to kill or convert one day. You should be ashamed of not bowing down and altering your way of life to adapt to their demands against you.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
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The point of all this seems to be that Muslim people appear to be pretty damned intolerant of other cultures that have different (more liberal) social values. The problem with a significant number of women wearing the hijab, for example, would be the social pressure put on women who would prefer NOT to wear it.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,004
8,039
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Originally posted by: Astaroth33
The point of all this seems to be that Muslim people appear to be pretty damned intolerant of other cultures that have different (more liberal) social values. The problem with a significant number of women wearing the hijab, for example, would be the social pressure put on women who would prefer NOT to wear it.

Social pressure such as the following?

Today's news from Germany buries the fact that the gang rapists of a 13 year-old were likely Arab Muslim immigrants:

Shock in Berlin as Suspected Rapists Freed

Nowhere is the news reported that this is part of a gang rape epidemic sweeping areas with high Arab Muslim immigration.

As is the case with young Arab Muslims throughout the West, teenage girls are generally forbidden to go out, leaving separatist gangs of predatory Arab Muslim males with highly misogynist attitudes Harassment of females has therefore exploded throughout the West, most shockingly demonstrated in the recent phenomenon of gang rape for sport. Listed below is the evidence.

While these cases are primarily not related to the core group of committed Islamists within Arab Muslim immigrant populations, there is some "trickle-down" of attitudes so it is also worth noting the rape aspects of Jihad ideology as well: The Rape Jihad.

Germany

Shock in Berlin as Suspected Rapists Freed

The youths, aged 13 to 15, allegedly attacked their victim as she walked home from school in the Charlottenburg district which is generally seen as safe area with low crime rates.

While allegedly gang-raping the girl, the youths are reported to have filmed the sexual attack with a mobile phone camera. Media reports say the four later boasted about the rape to other school children and sent copies of the video to friends.

Police who detained the four earlier this week have so far not found any film footage of the alleged rape. There is suspicion the video pictures may have been erased and mobile phones of the suspects are being analysed by experts in a bid to retrieve any pictures....

Adding to the potential explosiveness of the alleged rape is the fact that the four suspects are all the children of immigrant families, while the victim is German. The normally well-informed Bild tabloid said the suspects were two German-Turks, a German Russian and a German-Angolan.

Federal police statistics released on Monday show non-German youths under the age of 21 were twice as likely to be crime suspects last year than German nationals of the same age.

Officers in charge of the case are convinced the four youths carried out the gang rape and DNA tests are being carried out on sperm traces found on the victim.

Given the brutality of the attack, there has been anger over a decision by Berlin justice officials to order the youths be set free. The 13-year-old suspect is too young to be kept in detention under German law, but the other three could be held.

Berlin justice Senator Karin Schubert insists, however, that even youths suspected of violent crimes can only be kept locked up if there is danger they will flee justice.

France

Racial Gangrape: Another Diversity Disaster

..in more cosmopolitan centers like Paris and Australia, the game is blossoming. It consists in the ritual gang rape of white women by non-white immigrants... The ritual is known as a ?tournante,? meaning ?Take your turn,? and it consists of a black male becoming ?friendly with? (seducing) a white female, preferably a teenager. Once they?ve become chums, the male lures the girl to a location where his buddies in the gang ?take their turns? with her. In the case on trial in Paris, it was no fewer than 14 buddies. Unlike many victims of such fun, this young lady lodged a complaint with the police. As a result, she was gangraped a second time- this time, allegedly, by the 11 who went on trial in April....

The incident is not isolated. Police investigations of similar rapes were underway in three other French cities, and one French magistrate says the game has been going on since at least the 1980s. ?Their technique was to pick up a young girl?a white girl?and once she had become the girlfriend of one of the members, he would allow his mates to make use of her?

France Takes on Plague of Sexual ?Rite? (scroll down to see)

Kidnap Accomplice of Ilan Halimi Was Herself a Victim of "Tournante"

In Nice, Gang Rape Video of a Female Student is Circulating Freely Among Muslim Immigrants

Australia

The Australian Sun-Herald reports that police data show that some 70 racially motivated rapes of young white girls, one as young as 13, by Middle Eastern immigrants have taken place in the last two years. ?Fifteen youths and men have so far been charged with more than 300 offenses relating to matters since mid-2000 alone. They are all of Middle Eastern extraction. None of those involved is presently before the courts....those in Australia don?t seem to be part of a gang initiation, but they are nonetheless clearly racially driven. ?Before being brutalized,? the Australian paper reports, ?other victims have reportedly been questioned about their Australian heritage or forced to endure taunts about their attackers? prowess.? But, like the rapes in France, those in Australia follow a similar pattern in which one non-white male becomes intimate with a white girl, whom he then delivers to his friends for sexual violation, beating and humiliation.

See also: Racial Gang-Rape: The Sequel

Sweden

Immigrant Rape Wave in Sweden

Swedish girls Jenny and Linda were on their way to a party on New Year's Eve when they were assaulted, raped and beaten half to death by four Somali immigrants. Sweden's largest newspaper has presented the perpetrators as "two men from Sweden, one from Finland and one from Somalia", a testimony as to how bad the informal censorship is in stories related to immigration in Sweden. Similar incidents are reported with shocking frequency, to the point where some observers fear that law and order is completely breaking down in the country. The number of rape charges in Sweden has tripled in just above twenty years. Rape cases involving children under the age of 15 are six - 6 - times as common today as they were a generation ago....

According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants....

A group of Swedish teenage girls has designed a belt that requires two hands to remove and which they hope will deter would-be rapists. "It's like a reverse chastity belt," one of the creators, 19-year-old Nadja Björk, told AFP, meaning that the wearer is in control, instead of being controlled. Björk and one of her partners now plan to start a business to mass produce the belts....

In an online readers' poll from the newspaper Aftonbladet, 82% of the women expressed fear to go outside after dark. There are reports of rapes happening in broad daylight....

? It is not as wrong raping a Swedish girl as raping an Arab girl?, says Hamid. "The Swedish girl gets a lot of help afterwards, and she had probably ****** before, anyway. But the Arab girl will get problems with her family. For her, being raped is a source of shame. It is important that she retains her virginity until she marries." It was no coincidence that it was a Swedish girl that was gang raped in Rissne ? this becomes obvious from the discussion with Ali, Hamid, Abdallah and Richard. All four have disparaging views on Swedish girls, and think this attitude is common among young men with immigrant background. "It is far too easy to get a Swedish whore?? girl, I mean;" says Hamid, and laughs over his own choice of words. "Many immigrant boys have Swedish girlfriends when they are teenagers. But when they get married, they get a proper woman from their own culture who has never been with a boy. That?s what I am going to do. I don?t have too much respect for Swedish girls. I guess you can say they get ****** to pieces."

Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway

...doubling of the number of reported rapes by ambush in 2004, following what was already a decade of steadily increasing numbers of sexual crimes

the number of reported rapes against children is on the rise. The figures have nearly doubled in the last ten years: 67 rapes against children under the age of 15 were reported in 2004 compared with 258 in 1995. Legal proceedings continue this week in a case involving a 13 year old girl from Motala who was said to have been subjected to a group rape by four men. (Note: These four men were Kurdish Muslims, who raped the girl for hours and even took photos of doing so).

Amanda and Molin Raped by Immigrant Gang (Swedish)

Norway

Rape charges in the capital are spiraling upwards, 40 percent higher from 1999 to 2000 and up 13 percent so far this year. Police Inspector Gunnar Larsen of Oslo's Vice, Robbery and Violent crime division says the statistics are surprising - the rising number of rape cases and the link to ethnic background are both clear trends....While 65 percent of those charged with rape are classed as coming from a non-western background, this segment makes up only 14.3 percent of Oslo's population. Norwegian women were the victims in 80 percent of the cases, with 20 percent being women of foreign background.

Denmark

Alarmed at last week's police statistics, which revealed that in 68% of all rapes committed this year the perpetrator was from an ethnic minority, leading Muslim organisations have now formed an alliance to fight the ever-growing problem of young second and third-generation immigrants involved in rape cases against young Danish girls.

See also: Copenhagen Mufti Declares Women who Refuse to Wear Headscarves are "Asking for Rape"
 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
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Jaskalas:

"As is the case with young Arab Muslims throughout the West, teenage girls are generally forbidden to go out, leaving separatist gangs of predatory Arab Muslim males with highly misogynist attitudes "

An extremely eloquent and thought-provoking link to the state of the young muslim mind. The Koran is the proverbial sand that a muslim sticks his head into when confronted with the reality of the modern world based on the reformation and the renaissance.
 

Horus

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2003
2,838
1
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It's not just the Europeans which have been spineless. There was a serious discussion at introducing an official Shar'ia court here in Ontario. Thank God we saw the light, or else we'd have justices sentencing people to lashes for being raped. Woo.