Final thoughts of the XFL's first game from a wrestling fan..

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GoldenBear

Banned
Mar 2, 2000
6,843
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<< Remember this is one of my relatives I'm talking about. He was part of the WWF training league(whatever they call it) and what I posted earlier is true. >>

I'm not doubting your side of your story. I'm saying the average professional does NOT spend spend days preparing for a TV match. The case may be different for your relative here, but in the WWF the cases ARE NOT the same.

http://www.rantsylvania.com/home/rspwfaq/prelude.asp

Check out this FAQ here:

<< 0.5 Are matches scripted or improvised?
A bit of both.

Type &quot;A&quot; wrestlers (like most of WCW's cruiserweights and people with strong training backgrounds like the Armstrongs and the Harts) can usually go into a ring and make up a watchable match with no time needed beforehand. Brad Armstrong and the Great Muta once improvised a ****1/2 match on five minutes notice for WCW Saturday Night, for instance.

Type &quot;B&quot; wrestlers (most everyone else) will generally have an idea of the finish and flow of a match, and will &quot;call spots&quot; during the match (whisper moves into their opponent's ear) to keep the match fresh and interesting. This is the most common match method.

Type &quot;C&quot; wrestlers (Hogan, Kevin Nash and most roided monsters) will generally plan out the entire match beforehand, and sometimes choreograph the action days in advance to ensure a minimum of trouble. The Hulk Hogan-Ultimate Warrior match from 1990 was rehearsed several times, weeks before the event.

The rule is generally that one type of wrestler v. the same type of wrestler are usually capable of producing at least a decent match, because the styles are compatible. The trouble comes when the &quot;C&quot; type wrestlers fight &quot;B&quot; type wrestlers, because those on the lowest tier of match quality are generally incapable of improvising a match, and a wrestler who *is* capable of doing so will be bored and disinterested in a choreographed match. The most glaring example of completely mismatched styles was Shane Douglas v. Pitbull #2 at ECW's Barely Legal PPV, where Shane attempted to improvise a match and the Pitbull was desperately trying to maintain a match flow devised hours before the match began.

In the end, of course, the above is merely a general guide and not an iron-clad classification of wrestling styles. Feel free to use your own judgment.
>>



<< I know it breaks your heart to find out that the WWF isn't a real sport but accept it. >>

I really see it's sad you have to settle for 6th grade level insults to attempt to make your point here.

It only serves to hurt your side further.

<< was not comparing the XFL to Hitler, what I was doing was stating the fact that most people are stupid. >>

Your argument is totally falling apart here. If you did some research, you might learn some things..

<< If you were to do some sort of survey I think you would find that by far the majority of people who watch the WWF are uneducated, lower class, &quot;she's my sister AND my wife&quot;, buffons who wouldn't know culture if it bit them in their a$$. Well, except of course for the cutlure in their ears and on their teeth...err...tooth. >>

The people that I find as uneducated and lower class are ones that make very gross and high generalizations. Your prejudice is very insulting to me, and the millions of fans that do tune into wrestling broadcasts every week.

Judging from message boards that I've frequented, I suspect that a whole lot of fans are no strangers to institutions of higher learning. Of course, the stereotypical ?truck driving redneck who never graduated from high school? also tunes in to Raw and Smackdown every week.

William Shakespeare?s works are now taught in every major University. However, back in the late 16th century, Will was just a struggling playwright trying to make a living. He had to please the groundlings (poor folks) as much as the Queen. Therefore, he threw in many ?naughty? jokes and double innuendoes. Shakespeare was creating art, but he had to cater to everyone in his potential audience. Wrestling is no different. Educated lawyers watch it. So do high school dropouts. And both able to derive the same amount of enjoyment upon seeing their favorite sports-entertainers duel in the center of the ring or on the microphone.

Blacks were once viewed as being ?less intelligent? than whites and were used as slaves. Women didn?t always have the ability to vote. Times changed. ?Perceptions? changed. Those may be extreme examples, but the principles in them still apply.
 

shiner

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
17,112
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I give up. All hail the wise and all knowing Golden Bear. Someone call Paul Taglibue and tell him to start folding up the NFL, we won't need it anymore after seeing the XFL today.

I would go into more detail and argue with you some more but I'm tired and it's past my bedtime.
 

GoldenBear

Banned
Mar 2, 2000
6,843
2
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<< I give up. All hail the wise and all knowing Golden Bear. >>

It's sad when people can't go further in an argument and settle for 6th grade level insults.

The fact that you make gross generalizations about wrestling fans when you have ZERO, absolutely ZERO proof to back up your statements shows the type of prejudicial person you are.

Admit your wrong about WWF matches, the fans, and have a cookie, and things will be fun again.

<< Someone call Paul Taglibue and tell him to start folding up the NFL, we won't need it anymore after seeing the XFL today. >>

If you're able to, please explain one case in which I've said anythign remotely close to that.

<< If you were to do some sort of survey I think you would find that by far the majority of people who watch the WWF >>

Please do that, I'd be truly interested in your results, and would be thrilled to see the shock in your face.
 
Oct 19, 2000
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Why does everyone adjoin the XFL to wrestling anyways?? Did everyone say that it was scripted when the Atlanta Braves lost like 34 out of 35 attempts of winning the World Series?? Hell, Ted Turner, at one time, owned both the Braves and WCW.
 

somethingwitty

Golden Member
Aug 1, 2000
1,420
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<< I think you would find that by far the majority of people who watch the WWF are uneducated, lower class, &quot;she's my sister AND my wife&quot;, buffons who wouldn't know culture if it bit them in their a$$. >>



Well, this was a very interesting thread to lurk in, right up until that ignorant post. Then I just couldn't help but reply. I am proud to say that I currently attend an ivy league college, and I have no problem watching and enjoying the WWF. I will add that I have a number of friends here who enjoy watching the WWF for its entertainment value. As mentioned, there are definitely &quot;redneck&quot; fans of the WWF, but I don't think that the average viewer of monday night RAW is a hick married to his sister. Having read your preceding posts this one doesn't surprise me much-but nevertheless, it is incorrect and ignorant.
 

Mixxen

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2000
1,154
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Geez shinerburke,

Have a mature debate, not some 10 year old flame war :p

As for the XFL, it's okay for a bunch of no namers. The sideline interviews were a bad idea. Some of the newer camera angles were pretty cool. I probably won't watch it anymore unless I'm really bored.

 

frogger

Member
Dec 14, 2000
67
0
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Forgive Me All

Sorry to anyone who hates it and to those who love it.

IT SURE AS HELL BEATS THE NFL PROBOWL!

:p
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
2
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<< Aren't you the cynical one? >>

Somebody around here has this in their sig:

The skill of perception is often percieved as cynicism by those who don't have it.

You did ask him what seemed scripted, and then when he answered you call him a cynic? Hmm..

 

bcterps

Platinum Member
Aug 31, 2000
2,795
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The XFL looks to be a pretty lame idea, at least so far. Wasnt it supposed to be so much better than the NFL? That they would put the fun back into football? As far as I can see there are only 5 major rule changes, and only 2 or 3 of them even make a difference.

The replacement for the coin toss was pretty lame, it looks like it was thought up 5 minutes before the game, just so they could say the XFL is more &quot;hardcore&quot; or something.

The no fair catch rule doesnt really matter if you have a freakin 5 yard halo to catch the damn ball.

Bump and run barely makes a difference since you can only hit a person when they're in front of you. During the NY-NJ/LV game they still had plenty of pass interference calls.

No PAT kick doesnt really matter, just another lame attempt to be more &quot;hardcore&quot;

Quarterback cant slide, oooh, this just means that QBs will get more injured and be replaced by even worse QBs.

The worst though was the presentation of the game. At first I thought, yeah it might be interesting to hear a sound bite from a player who just screwed up a play or made a big one. Well first of all, the players are too damn tired to say anything after a play, and their too damn busy talking to coaches or watching the game to give a sound bite. It looked more lame than anything else, that sideline reporter sucked.

The announcing also sucked. Ventura knows nothing about football, he makes Dennis Miller look like a football genius. That other guy also sucked, half of all the comments made were, &quot;Oooh, there's a hard hit&quot;.

Mics on every player didnt add anything to the game. I dont care what play they're calling, its not like I understand it anyways. The last thing I wanna hear from these players is all the trash talking. Its not like they're in a real football league, playing against good football players. Every player is so desparately trying to be a star, its shameful.

I definitely didnt get the idea after watching the game that this was going to be more entertaining than the NFL. This game was not more &quot;eXtreme&quot; than normal rules. The added cameras and mics did not make this game better. And don't go saying, well you cant compare it to the NFL yet, the XFL was marketed from the start as being better than the NFL, and it clearly isnt even better than college football.

--Ben
 

Pocatello

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
9,754
2
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I watched the Orlando and Chicago game. I thought the game presentation sucks, but I'm going to give the XFL the chance to improve. Did you see the Orlando's coach ignoring the guy who was trying to interview him? The game lacks refinement, the announcers were obnoxious, the cheerleaders were lame, but I like the fact that the players played a good football game.
 

GoldenBear

Banned
Mar 2, 2000
6,843
2
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<< Wasnt it supposed to be so much better than the NFL? >>

No one claimed it would. That's why these guys make ~$45,000 a season while NFL guys make considerably more.

<< The replacement for the coin toss was pretty lame, it looks like it was thought up 5 minutes before the game >>

I thought it was awesome, except for the guy dislocating his shoulder.

<< The no fair catch rule doesnt really matter if you have a freakin 5 yard halo to catch the damn ball. >>

NFL guys typically call a fair catch when there's guys within 8-10 years when caught. Would you prefer guys to be slaughtered every two punts?

<< No PAT kick doesnt really matter, just another lame attempt to be more &quot;hardcore&quot; >>

I don't really like that rule really, since a &quot;two-point conversion&quot; is basically a matter of chance, and if a team just scored a touchdown they shouldn't have to score another one. For example late in a game a team is down by 7, and they don't get that extra point after a TD, the game is basically over.

<< The announcing also sucked. >>

You should've seen Jim Ross. He rocked my world.

<< I dont care what play they're calling, its not like I understand it anyways. >>

The impact of the hits were amplified by a million times. It makes it interesting.

<< Its not like they're in a real football league, playing against good football players. >>

It's a football league, and these are the best former pros and college guys available to do the gig.

<< And don't go saying, well you cant compare it to the NFL yet, the XFL was marketed from the start as being better than the NFL, and it clearly isnt even better than college football. >>

So your disappointed because of high expectations? That seems to be your problem.
 

nd

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,690
0
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I think it might be cool if the XFL granted each team 3 free penalties per game. This way, good teams who didn't make mistakes would be rewarded in the last 2 minutes of the game by getting away with personal fouls :)

Oh well, at least it sounded like a good idea when I first thought of it.. maybe not, I dunno..
 

bcterps

Platinum Member
Aug 31, 2000
2,795
0
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<< No one claimed it would. That's why these guys make ~$45,000 a season while NFL guys make considerably more. >>



Actually, the XFL claimed all along that it would be better than the NFL. They claimed that it was &quot;real&quot; football, none of the wussy stuff in the NFL. If you're gonna go around claiming that your brand new league is gonna kick butt, then it better. Its not about me having high expectations, its about the XFL not living up to its OWN hype. They were the ones that hyped it up, they are the ones that couldnt produce.

--Ben
 

nd

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,690
0
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Most (not all) of the XFL hype came from outside media sources, not the XFL. The majority of XFL's own hyping came in the form of showing off their cheerleaders, in which they delivered as promised if I do say so myself :)
 
Oct 19, 2000
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<< The no fair catch rule doesnt really matter if you have a freakin 5 yard halo to catch the damn ball. >>


That's the truth. I thought the same thing whenever that penalty was called during the Outlaws/Hitmen game. Everyone always heralded the no fair catch thing as cool, because it would allow the returner to get clocked if the punt had some good hang time. But the 5 yard halo rule, and plus the fact that offensive players cannot leave the line of scrimmage until the ball is kicked totally ruins that whole thing.
 

bcterps

Platinum Member
Aug 31, 2000
2,795
0
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<< Most (not all) of the XFL hype came from outside media sources, not the XFL. >>


Almost all of the media that I have read on it has not hyped the league at all. In fact most of the media that I read just said that the XFL would be a success because McMahon is a marketing genius. All of the hype definitely came from the XFL themselves. They were the ones saying that this was &quot;real&quot; football (all those Dick Butkus ads). They were the ones saying they were gonna put the fun back into football. They were the ones saying that they would revolutionize the football experience.

--Ben

This is my last post on this subject. I cant believe I actually wasted my time and energy discussing this. Everyone else have fun arguing with Golden Bear, I cant be bothered to waste my time anymore.
 
Oct 19, 2000
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Anybody hear towards the beginning of the first game when the announcer alongside Ventura about said NFL instead of XFL?? That was hilarious.