Final Fantasy XIV 2.0

[ViviTheMage]

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/teaser/

Lots of new info, looks to be improved. I had not played passed the beta, I was majorly disappointed.

I might relook at it, when 2.0 comes out..anyone else thinking about it?

 

[PowerYoga]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2199156&highlight=final+fantasy

They're way past the timeline for making FF14 marketable, would've been nice a year ago when they still had everyone's attention. But I've played through the beta and found it boring and absolutely disappointing and will not be going back to any future square MMORPGs as they seem to discard everything they learn in favor for "innovation" which are misguided attempts and concepts from out of touch developers.

You might want to mention they've pretty much scrapped the game and restarted it. New story (the old ones were absolute shit) and newer(?) graphics engine that hopefully will not produce the jagged shadows and ridiculous blooming the current one does. The current engine is absolute crap and horrendously optimized, and even the best systems will have jagged loading times because of the way they are coping with npc/pc loading. I heard they were redoing the menu but I have no optimistic thoughts about it given their history with PC gaming.

Produced for PC, developed for a console. pass.

 

[redrider4life4]

I loved FFXI, it was an awesome game, great depth, the character control was the main problem after playing a game like WoW where everything is so fluid.

Played FF14 beta for 30 mins and knew it was going to be complete garbage. The fact that they throw you in and it took me 20 minutes to figure out how to get out of the city and start leveling up. The combat system/quests were so utterly boring, no innovation and the character control felt so crappy. I won't be able to play another FF game possibly after this.

 

[ViviTheMage]

I loved FFXI, it was an awesome game, great depth, the character control was the main problem after playing a game like WoW where everything is so fluid.

Played FF14 beta for 30 mins and knew it was going to be complete garbage. The fact that they throw you in and it took me 20 minutes to figure out how to get out of the city and start leveling up. The combat system/quests were so utterly boring, no innovation and the character control felt so crappy. I won't be able to play another FF game possibly after this.

Shit, took me 15 minutes to get off the boat in the beta :S, haha.

I think I might stick to star wars for my MMO then.

 

[darkewaffle]

I've been keeping an eye on some of the emails and in light of the monthly fee being re-instated in about a month I've been trying it out again. Trying to start off on my old character kind of failed because I only ever played for a few weeks and kind of forgot (now) what I was supposed to be doing lol, so I started a new one to get my feet wet again.

So far it's had some nice changes made in order to make it more accessible. Anima recharges faster and there are more ways to conserve it, the levelling system has been refined and is much cleaner now (you just have job levels like in FFXI, no more separation between job and character levels, points are autoallocated upon levelling), and I feel like 'resting' for MP/HP is fairly quick. They've added an autoattack to the game and re-worked combat abilities in light of it, mostly just cooldown based as far as I can tell.

All in all it feels more like FFXI which to me is an improvement, but I've still got a few gripes.

So far the map design is still pretty linear, I loved FFXI's big wide open regions even if they were a pain in the ass at times, they had nooks and crannies everywhere and getting from point A to B was basically dictated by whatever path you wanted to take. Instead, at least in Gridania, it seems like everything is organized into big natural hallway/room/hallway/room/hallway/room progressions. It looks ok, just doesn't have the same scale to it.

Gathering feels the same, it's not bad but it would be very welcomed if they could reduce some of the UI 'lag' to the process. The actual 'mini game' involved in acquiring the resource is not bad at all, but its the fact that when you make your choice you're still sitting there waiting a second or so for it to actually 'happen'.

Also the quests are still poorly designed. I don't mind that they're kill quests or fairly simplistic, but it's so irritating how so many of them are "Kill 6 Bee Swarms" which then turns into "Kill 5 Bee Swarms, Chase down the 6th Bee Swarm, Then kill the 6th Bee Swarm and the 7th Bee Swarm and the 8th Bee Swarm that spawn only when you re-engage the 6th Swarm". That's gotten me killed a few times and it's just a hassle, it really makes it difficult to do quests even barely above your level without at least a partner.

I also think there still isn't an AH available, but don't quote me since I'm still re-learning things, but I believe there's at least function to "search" retainers (the NPC vendors you can hire/acquire) but I don't know how useful it is, and FFXI's AH was such a fantastic implementation of the concept that I'm confused why they wouldn't just stick with what works.

I definitely want to find some time to read through these 'documents' they've released, I'm a patient guy and FFXI is a lot to live up to in my mind. I kind of wish FFXIV was just FFXI with a new coat of paint but they've made progress and at least been cool about it so far, I'm not dismissing it yet.

God, the first time I played FFXI I thought it was the most miserable game ever lol, but I grew to love it, these games just have more 'intangibles' to learn and don't hold your hand very much. Understanding how to efficiently travel, where good party camps are, acclimating to the economy, finding a money making niche, etc. It's just got a bit of a learning curve.

 

[darkewaffle]

Oh wow, I just read through the PDFs they released and if they pull it off it's going to address just about everything and be pretty damn impressive. From the sounds of it, it will literally be almost an entirely new game. I hope they pull it off, it's honestly the sort of thing you would wish they'd been doing all this past year and have ready now lol, but it sounds like they've definitely listened and are headed in the right direction.

 

[tedrodai]

...

So far the map design is still pretty linear, I loved FFXI's big wide open regions even if they were a pain in the ass at times, they had nooks and crannies everywhere and getting from point A to B was basically dictated by whatever path you wanted to take. Instead, at least in Gridania, it seems like everything is organized into big natural hallway/room/hallway/room/hallway/room progressions. It looks ok, just doesn't have the same scale to it.

...
...

I also think there still isn't an AH available, but don't quote me since I'm still re-learning things, but I believe there's at least function to "search" retainers ... but I don't know how useful it is ...

I definitely want to find some time to read through these 'documents' they've released, I'm a patient guy and FFXI is a lot to live up to in my mind. I kind of wish FFXIV was just FFXI with a new coat of paint but they've made progress and at least been cool about it so far, I'm not dismissing it yet.

...

Yeah, the maps are still the same atrocious things from release. They're due to be completely overhauled between now and 2.0, as they're new 2.0 docs show, but yes Grid was especially bad. You're right about no AH, and while they're still adjusting the whole retainer system, that's not an area they've given much info about. They still won't commit to an AH, which sucks, because the item search isn't really very good. It's better than nothing, but not good.

I think the current team working on the game will make 2.0 into a good MMO if SE keeps it afloat, but it's very much still in a transitional state. I kinda wish they could have COMPLETELY started over, because I really can't think of an aspect of the initial release that I would give praise to, but that wouldn't have been feasible .

 

[nageov3t]

Shit, took me 15 minutes to get off the boat in the beta :S, haha.

I think I might stick to star wars for my MMO then.

when I had to tab out and ask the AT forums how to talk to an NPC, I knew FFXIV wasn't the game for me.

it's a shame, because I love some of the concepts (especially multi-classing, which I think every game should have... I love the idea of having a single character that can switch between classes as opposed to having a dozen alts just to experience different roles) but the implementation was just so godawful.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Are they changing the controls around a bit?

 

[PowerYoga]

they're changing the UI. Don't know about the controls. Most of the stuff is not mappable based on the current scheme.

Based on 2.0, they are pretty much scrapping the original idea and starting anew. Which is fine and dandy and all, but paying for the game in the state it's in? No thanks. Tanaka fucked the game up so badly they pretty much can't work with anything they've got with the exception of character models. This means that the game is more or less at an alpha-testing stage right now, and 2.0 will be the "real" FF14 that might be worth playing.

To be quite honest, Tanaka is the perfect example of the previous generation of out of touch developers that ignore all user feedback in favor of their "vision".

 

[darkewaffle]

What's not mappable? I was able to customize it so that I could play pretty much just has I had with FFXI at least which I was pretty happy with. Num pad for movement, arrow keys for camera or menu item selection, left hand on keyboard for hotkeys and such.

FFXI's native control scheme is extremely different than other games, but it's extremely fluid and useful if you can get comfortable with it. Only exception is targetting but no game has gotten targetting down yet, clicking is inaccurate and tabbing forces you to cycle through them constantly, so it's par for the course.

And in the document with the "table" of features that are coming, one of the bullet points was something about "Auction House Features" so I think there might be hope for that yet. Though what exactly that entails is anyone's guess.

 

[PowerYoga]

I played FF11 for about 5 years so I know what the controls are like, FF14's control is almost identical to FF11's, meaning it's almost 7 years old. Problem is a lot of the keys are listed but greyd out so you can't modify them. If I wanted to map hotkeys to different buttons or ctrl/alt+key presses I'm SOL. The controls are not so much "fluid" as "you get used to it". It's not intuitive, it's a pain to learn, and the menu, despite the fixes, still have about a second's worth of lag that just screams annoyance. Hey, better than the 2 second delays before. This is the only MMORPG where even MENUS open slowly. Heard details about how they made the open menu commands get processed on server side to prevent cheating, hope they get their heads out of their asses on that one.

The targeting? Forget clicking on anything with the mouse. Never worked well for anything in the distance. I won't complain about it though because there's rarely more than 2-3 things on the screen for you to tab through anyway.

I'm sure for the few people playing the auction house will be good. Market wards sucked and was a complaint since alpha, and it's sad to say I've had such low expectations from the team that I'm not surprised it's taking this long to hammer out.

 

[darkewaffle]

I don't see how controls get old lol, if that's the case then moving with WASD must be really outmoded by now.

I think it worked incredibly well, it was a horrid pain trying to get the hang of initially but it suits the game at least. It's really not meant to be played with a mouse, and the configuration they've thought up lets you multitask in-game with ease. Which is really only an issue because the UI itself is so rigid and you can't really open a window and leave it there for use essentially, but that's another matter.

 

[sushicide]

no tarus no thx

 

[tedrodai]

Tanaka fucked the game up so badly they pretty much can't work with anything they've got with the exception of character models.

Yes...he did. lol
And I wish they couldn't use them also, but oh well. It would be nice to have something fresh, as opposed to rehashed FF11 races.

I'm sure for the few people playing the auction house will be good. Market wards sucked and was a complaint since alpha, and it's sad to say I've had such low expectations from the team that I'm not surprised it's taking this long to hammer out.

There's actually been a rather large influx of players recently...many who quit early on and some new ones. I guess they're trying out the recent changes, but it hasn't been a problem finding people to group with across most level ranges. I'm assuming the upcoming (Nov/Dec) reinstatement of monthly fees are gonna reverse that for a while lol.

But yeah, it's really taken a long time for the AH . They basically gave us the rudimentary item search as a quick fix, then labelled the marketplace situation a much lower priority than the game rebalancing. They did the same with inventory space as well, cause it's affected by the rebalacing quite a bit.

...because the UI itself is so rigid...

The 2.0 notes mention making UI plugins available or something to that nature...they need UI help badly.

no tarus no thx

Uh, what? It's kinda funny (though not unexpected), but lalafells are called tarus by players at least 50% of the time, and roegadyns are called galkas closer to 90% of the time.

 

[PowerYoga]

I don't see how controls get old lol, if that's the case then moving with WASD must be really outmoded by now.

I think it worked incredibly well, it was a horrid pain trying to get the hang of initially but it suits the game at least. It's really not meant to be played with a mouse, and the configuration they've thought up lets you multitask in-game with ease. Which is really only an issue because the UI itself is so rigid and you can't really open a window and leave it there for use essentially, but that's another matter.

Not referring to WASD. The whole control scheme is developed for a controller (FF11 controls). The whole game can (and seems like it should) be played without a mouse, and trying to USE the mouse actually detracts from the gaming experience because of how ridiculously cumbersome the mouse actions are. For a MMORPG that is ONLY on the PC at the moment... that's fucking ridiculous.

Did they ever fix item sorting? I couldn't split stacks and re-combine stacks that I've created from crafting and that was what caused me to quit because I had around 20 stacks of some leather crap that I created that would've ended up all in 1 slot if they had the sorting working. Though I see that they've changed the repair materials to other things so these leather scraps are probably worthless anyway.

 

[tedrodai]

Did they ever fix item sorting? I couldn't split stacks and re-combine stacks that I've created from crafting and that was what caused me to quit because I had around 20 stacks of some leather crap that I created that would've ended up all in 1 slot if they had the sorting working. Though I see that they've changed the repair materials to other things so these leather scraps are probably worthless anyway.

Nope, not yet fixed. And as impressed as I have been with some recent game updates and parts of their vision, they've yet to convince me they can handle the UI/inventory/trading type stuff (or chat rooms & linkshells for that matter). It's extremely cumbersome and detracts from the experience (and yet somehow still much better than at release)...but that's all been lower priority compared to the rest of the crap they're trying to fix. Maybe 1 year from now? lol

Yeah, the change to repair mats was much needed...and they're also about 1/2 through their major reworking of the crafting and materials system, meaning there's a LOT of junk materials that are now completely worthless. Thank god. I think the next patch finishes (at least the 1st stab) of that, so no verdict on it yet.

 

[manimal]

Repairing equipment and gear alone made me quit. I enjoyed the difficulty but too many time sinks for the hell of time sinks..

I played ff11 since NA beta and have 4 characters with all the jobs leveled to cap between the mules and mains...

This game lost me in a month...hell star trek online held me for a little longer.

 

[zokudu]

I MIGHT look into this when 2.0 releases. They still have a chance to drag me in but they have to do things well.

 

[darkewaffle]

Yea they're in for the long haul on this one. Unfortunately 2.0 is still like 8-9 months out but if they actually deliver on their ideas, it would be a huge leap forward.

 

[PowerYoga]

unfortunately I still won't be playing it unless there are rave reviews about it. It just seems like too little, too late and I'm not interested in being a guinea pig. Learned my lesson for 1.0.

 

[ApexBoost]

I loved XI as well, if this could be similar I'd buy into it. I need a MMORPG in my life but none of the current ones can keep my interest.

 

[wahdangun]

to be honest you all lucky can play FF, I'm die hard FF fan and I'm really want to play that FF XI and XIV.

 

[RavenSEAL]

SE has got to be burning some SERIOUS money into this game, holy crap.

Sucks that 2.0 isn't due out for another year, Gamestop has the game for $9.99 and I'm seriously considering a time burner now that summer is here.

 

[pathos]

SE has got to be burning some SERIOUS money into this game, holy crap.

Sucks that 2.0 isn't due out for another year, Gamestop has the game for $9.99 and I'm seriously considering a time burner now that summer is here.

Hrm, is it still that long out? they were posting 8-9 months out when this thread was still new, 5 months ago. I haven't really paid much attention, but the last time I checked the squre page for it, i dont recall it being quite THAT far away still. They may not have had a set date for it yet. I do receive emails from them, and, while it never has a firm date, they do make it seem like its drawing close?

The game is playable in its current form. i doubt many peole would rate it one of the best around, however.

If you do play, do yourself a favor and use a controller for it. I'm a firm believer in everything mouse and keyboard for pc games. But, this game is so much easier to control with a controller.