Final choice: Intel...AMD input welcome

[PsillyDude]

OK, I finally, after many months of research, decided on my system upgrade. Going from a Dell P-II333 w/128MB PC66 Ram running Win98SE and various upgrades through the past 3 years to:


Intel P-4 1.7 478pin CPU (205.00 retail package)
ECS P4S5A SiS645 Motherboard (cheap 88.00, and supports DDR333)
2- sticks of Crucial DDR266 256MB (about 60.00)
40GB Maxtor Diamondmax Plus ata133 (90.00) - Main Drive
Antec 635 case w/350W ATX12V power supply
30GB Maxtor 7200 ata66 (from old system) - Secondary Drive
ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon (from old system)
SB Live X-Gamer (from old system)
TDK 12x10x32 CR-RW (from old system)
DVD, Monitor, etc. (from old system)

Dual boot: Win XP pro/Win98SE

Granted, I could have gone the AMD route, saved a few $$$, and maybe??? picked up some performance in certain apps. But I think going this route is safer, and less troubleprone, in the long run.

Let's face it: x86 is a dying breed.
It's only a matter of time before the true capabilities of the P-4 and its' SSE-2 instructions are optimized in more software. That's when we'll see the real potential of this platform. I can always up the MGZ without swapping MB's. Your about maxed out with the current AMD solutions.

Just looking to the future. It's all in MHO.

***Oh, and not to mention, avoiding an intel based MB and RDRAM in favor of the SiS board and DDR2100 = more $$$ saved.


Peace...and sound off. (I really want to hear your unbiased opinions...as impossible as that may be)

 

[Daemon_UK]

umm, great another flame war.

do yourself a favour, look at the benchmarks, look at the costs etc.

Do some searches and then make up your own answer, this has been done to death already!

 

[bustone]

i always looked at the amd vs intel thing like i look at fancy luxury cars. theres several cars that will perform as good as if not better than a lexus that cost half of what you'd pay for one. all you're really paying for is the brand name.

 

[NFS4]

Let me get this straight, you've made your decision on what you're gonna buy. An Intel system...OK. So what is there to discuss?? You already have made your purchase decision. THAT'S IT. You shouldn't need any more "help" as YOU have already made the decision. WHY DO YOU NEED TO THROW AMD INTO THIS?

You're right, you are one SILLY dude.

 

[vash]

Looks like a nice system, being that you are going with DDR instead of RDRAM. But why not look at benches from Anandtech.com, Firingsquad.com, etc and see how well the 1.7 performes against an equally priced CPU? Looking on pricewatch, that 1.7 is over $200. If you look at an AMD XP1800, the price is lower and the performance is definitely higher.

Bang for the buck is all I look for, if its AMD this year and Intel next, that's fine. But its all about cost per FPS in Quake3 for me. Three years ago it was Intel who ruled, now the tide has changed for me. I'm sure when I buy again, there will be another debate for price/performance.

vash

 

[DSTA]

Nice rig, go for it. But don't count on "I can always up the MGZ without swapping MB's".

Slot1
Socket 370 PPGA
Socket 370 FC-PGA
Socket 370 FC-PGA2
Socket 423
Socket 478

What's next? Who knows what Socket future P4s, Celeron P4s and Northwoods will come in?

 

[christoph83]

I think its pretty safe to assume that the northwood will work in 478 pin motherboards,but theres always that chance that intel will change it and kick themselves in the a$$ again.

 

[PsillyDude]

Hey, slow down guys. I'm not trying to start a flame war. I considered both AMD and Intel. I just don't need the headaches (Via chipsets in particular) and heat issues with AMD. If you're into that kind of thing, great. But I want something that's reliable "out of the box".

I'd rather drive a BMW M-5 off the showroom, than buy a "regular" 5 series and try and soup it up, or worse yet, try and get a chevy to perform the same, and hope for the same reliability. Maybe not the best analogy, but you get my point. Brand names can denote quality...it's all in whay your willing to pay.

Your right about the MGZ upgrade. That's why I didn't spend $150.00+ for a MB. Swapping in the future (if necessary, won't be as painful on the wallet).

I KNOW AMD benchmarks better in most apps right now, but wait until the software is optimized for P-4 and then let's talk about "real world" performance.

The P-4 is only going to clock higher...even if it takes a MB swap. But I'm willing to take that risk.

Peace, and be kind?

 

[Remnant2]

<< Let's face it: x86 is a dying breed. It's only a matter of time before the true capabilities of the P-4 and its' SSE-2 instructions are optimized in more software. That's when we'll see the real potential of this platform. I can always up the MGZ without swapping MB's. Your about maxed out with the current AMD solutions.
>>



I have to agree with NFS4 on this one -- the P4 1.7ghz will surely be quite fast in most of your programs, so I can't fault your choice, but I do fault your judgement in posting something like this.

In regards to the quoted comment above, my take on it is I'm sure different from yours. The bottom line is this: Hoping for a special codepath to get written in more than high-end apps is asking for a miracle. We've seen this with MMX, 3dNow, and SSE -- sure, all three are used in today's software (hell, I just got done writing an MMX blitter for a project the other day). But in general SIMD is not suitable/cannot be dropped into a program without it being completely designed around it. For many algorithms its just downright unsuitable -- like trying to tighten a pipe with a hammer.

As for SSE2, it will provide some amazing performance in vectorizable double-precision applications, but for the average consumer applications it has no real benefit above what SSE brings to the table. I doubt we'll see anything more than we've already seen from nVidia writing an SSE2 codepath in the drivers.

The performance boost you CAN look forward to is when newer compilers (like Intel C 5.0, MSVC 7) start getting used more often. As we saw a long time ago with the povray recompile project, SSE2 didnt help much at all, but recompiling for (any) modern processor gave a huge boost to all involved.

 

[Kingofcomputer]

<< Nice rig, go for it. But don't count on "I can always up the MGZ without swapping MB's".

Slot1
Socket 370 PPGA
Socket 370 FC-PGA
Socket 370 FC-PGA2
Socket 423
Socket 478 >>


Add socket 3, socket 4, socket 5, socket 7, socket 8 before slot 1.

And if you buy Intel mb, it'd become even worse.
For example,
from SE440BX to SE440BX2 in order to upgrade from P2 to P3,
from SE440BX2 to SE440BX2-V in order to upgrade from lower speed P3 to higher speed P3.

AMD seems to reuse stuff better,
socket 7 for K6 to K6-2 to K6-3,
socket A for Athlon/Duron to AthlonXP/Duron(Morgan).

 

[munki]

ok.. you're waiting for sse2 to be implemented in software to see your investment's potential?? lol, alright. i think i'll stay with amd when theyre HARDware already outperforms intel's software or not.

amd sse1 >= intel sse2

and with the xp 1800 outperforming the p4 2.0 in most cases and then their prices:
amd xp 1.53ghz = $193 (pricewatch 11/13/01)
intel p4 2.0ghz = $407 (pricewatch 11/13/01)

i mean, yuck is all i can say..

and damn, did anyone else see that post on anandtech.com about amd going .1 micron?! lol, awesome (i know itll be 2003, but hey, that'll be awesome to have a 4400+)

 

[PsillyDude]

NFS4,

I'm only starting this thread to point out both AMD and Intel are viable choices. It all depends on what your looking for: Ultimate bang-for-the-buck; at the expense of more "tweaking" or acceptable performance with more reliability.

I've decided on an Intel system for my primary (business), system.
I'd love to add a kick-ass AMD system for fun. I just don't think it's ready for prime time yet, maybe next year once they iron out their chipset problems and heat issues.

In my opinion, AMD is Chrysler Corp. in the mid 80's...up and coming. And if they play thier cards right, they'll come out on top.

Oh yea, and don't forget I'm NOT buying overpriced Intel based MB's or overpriced RDRAM. More $$$ saved.



Peace (and yea, I am "one silly dude")

 

[SniperWulf]

I'm with NFS4... If you've already made your decision, why drag AMD into this? It'll only start a flame war of one of the worst kind.

But oh well, since you want input, you got it. DUDE, your gettin a P4!! LOL
Personally I could not bring myself to put together a box that will cost more and lag in performance compared to the competition. It just doesn't make sense to me. I think your money will be better spent on an AK31A and a XP 1700+ or so, but as always, To each his own!

 

[Sugadaddy]

1. P4 isn't x86?

2. AMD has no plan to drop socket-A, and let's face it, you won't be using the same motherboard when you want to upgrade your CPU, wether you go AMD or Intel.

3. Many apps are SSE2 optimized, go look at benchmarks and you'll see it doesn't make an incredible difference. Yes, SSE2 support will get better, but are you going to be using the computer now or "when apps are optimized" or "when the P4 hits 5ghz" ?

4. P4 dissipates almost as much heat as the Athlon XP, so the heat excuse is irrelevant.

5. It's your decision, and like NFS4 said, why are you posting this if you've already made up your mind? It's a sweet system you're building, and you don't have to justify yourself.

6. It's called a Megahertz, not a Mehagertz, hence the abbreviation MHz, not MGz.

 

[PsillyDude]

Sugadaddy,

All comments noted. Sorry for the typo's, but I agree with everything you said.
Finally some useful feedback.

I didn't mean x86 based, I was referring to the core differences. (I still think the P-4 is more suited to future apps; you can't keep the Wintel connection out of the equation no matter how you feel about it personnally).
Microsoft and Intel have been in bed for years, and I don't see that changing = more support for Intel hardware.

Thanks, and Peace

 

[formulav8]

I don't understand why you made this thread? As others have pointed out you already made your final decision. Why say something like AMD input welcome? I don't get it. Doesn't make sense. The only thing I see is your trying to start a flame fest.



Jason

 

[PsillyDude]

Once and for all:

I'm not trying to start a flame war. I'm just looking for "useful feedback" from other users.

Yes, I'm getting an Intel system now, but I'm not ruling out an AMD system for future "tweaking" use.

There has to be some Intel users on this forum (even though I know it's AMD biased).
Just looking for feedback guys, not flame wars.

Peace...to all

 

[QuestionsandAnsweres]

a 1.6Ghz (1900+) athlon xp will always beat a 1.7Ghz P4. ALWAYS. even wtih all the SSE2 instructions enabled and EVERYTHING

 

[sandorski]

Take off Hoser!

 

[Sugadaddy]

<< Once and for all:

I'm not trying to start a flame war. I'm just looking for "useful feedback" from other users.

Yes, I'm getting an Intel system now, but I'm not ruling out an AMD system for future "tweaking" use.

There has to be some Intel users on this forum (even though I know it's AMD biased).
Just looking for feedback guys, not flame wars.

Peace...to all >>





While I think the replies you're getting are a little harsh, I understand why people react this way. They're just tired of seeing AMD vs. Intel threads that get us nowhere. I'm not saying that's what you wanted to start, but I honestly think asking which is better is useless. People can look at benchmarks themselves, look at Pricewatch.com themselves, then look if a certain platform has more problems than another themselves, and take the decision of which company is better for what they do.


I don't think this forum is AMD biased, it's just full of people that want the best performance for the less $$$ possible. Right now, AMD has the performance lead, and their CPUs cost less, nobody can deny that. If Intel had a 2.4GHz P4 out, and it cost 250$, everybody would be recommending it, but it wouldn't make the forum Intel biased...

 

[PsillyDude]

Great feedback sandorski, what you a Canadian?

 

[sandorski]

Hehehe, yup.

 

[MisterNi]

<< I considered both AMD and Intel. I just don't need the headaches (Via chipsets in particular) >>


Well, considering you're going with the sis645 comparing that with a via chipset is an apples to oranges comparison. Try comparing it with the sis735 chipset. You can even compare it with the same mobo manufacturer.


<< Let's face it: x86 is a dying breed. >>


Well if you plan on keeping your computer for more than several years, then yes, x86 is a dying breed. I think you might have confused the P4 with the Itanium.


<< It's only a matter of time before the true capabilities of the P-4 and its' SSE-2 instructions are optimized in more software >>


Now, I'm not a programer, but from what I hear sse2 is geared more for content creation and complex scientific routines unlike the original sse which was meant to enhance fpu power through software. So chances are, unless you fall into that category you won't be seeing any performance improvement.

Hope this helps

 

[Novgrod]

Just so you know, future applications don't look too likely to score an overwhelming victory for the p4. I'm thinking of aquamark, dronez, and wolfenstein; doesn't look like a huge p4 victory even when wolf uses the q3 engine. (Can someone explain to me why the p4 is great at quake3, but not so great at games with the q3 engine? I'm sure it's been addressed, but not such that my simple mind can comprehend it )

If you're just looking for information with which you can compare the two cpus and their futures, I think one of any number of reviews would be a better place to find it.

Otherwise, enjoy your system.

 

[PsillyDude]

Novgrad,

Thanks for the input. I agree that the AMD system will outperform the Intel system clock for clock, and perform better in some current games/apps. Stability is the name of the game here though. Also, I have faith that the future software will take full advantage of the P-4.

I think you might have your Q3 questions answered once more software is optimised for the P-4.

Regarding your suggestions on reviews: any links?


Peace.